Gibraltar

[Mr.Bo]

Hi guys, I’ve already set up the board for my first game with the Axis (always played Allies, time to change the roles). NO’s, no bid.
On G1, I’d prefer taking Gibraltar with 1 INF, using the TRN. That prevents the Allied ships from landing there and it’s one step closer to an ITA NO, but on the downside I’ll probably lose my TRN to the UK bomber.

I’m not taking EGY on G1, I prefer using my bomber to take out as many UK ships as possible.

Any thoughts on that? Is it worth losing the TRN to take Gibraltar?

T(h)anks!

[Omega]

Its a choice you must make :)

Remember, taking Gibraltar also denies UK from his NO I believe. Also, its a step closer to get Italy’s second nos.

Personally, I prefer Egypt, but some people don’t want to waste units there and prefer to leave some IPC to Italy. I can understand them.

Robert

[Jennifer]

Yes, taking Gibraltar denies England a NO, but so does taking Egypt.

[Gargantua]

IF you are determined not to take EGY on G1, atleast land troops in LIB on G2.

This forces Britain to have to retreat, because you have six units, + whatever else you can pick up with your survivng transport, which is protected by the Italian Fleet.

You might aswell skip GIB.

However, if you are determined to take GIB, spread out your Sz5 fleet.  So that your 2 trn’s and 1 crs are all in different zones.  This makes it harder for britian to kill the cruiser.

Hope that helps.

(PS if you are going to use your bmb to kill things, send 1 sub to Sz9 against the destroyer, it’s 50/50 and if you win that and Sz2, UK has no transports to land units with, this is a VERY big advantage for the Axis turn 1.)

[Omega]

Not attacking or not winning Egypt turn one can be problematic in a way that UK will have more income. And the more income she gets, bigger she will threaten Europe. Also, the surviving troops of Egyp can and will usually annoy Japan/Italy/Gernany. This can be exploited by the Allies by gaining more time
However, sinking the entire UK fleet can easily compensate for this

Robert

[Jennifer]

I’ve amended my German 1 to take Egypt as well as sink the entire British fleet (less the destroyer in SZ 9) but man, it really thins you out and leaves you very little margin for error.

I still like pulling units out of Africa to hit Ukraine.  But I know I am in the minority.

[Krupp Steel]

@Cmdr:

I’ve amended my German 1 to take Egypt as well as sink the entire British fleet (less the destroyer in SZ 9) but man, it really thins you out and leaves you very little margin for error.

I still like pulling units out of Africa to hit Ukraine.  But I know I am in the minority.

I’ve done this myself a couple times with favourable results.

[Jennifer]

Done which, take out of Africa to hit Ukraine harder, or stretch thin to get Egypt AND sink the British BB in SZ 2 (Assumes you sink the DD in SZ 6 and the DD/CA in SZ 12 as well.)

[dondoolee]

@Cmdr:

I’ve amended my German 1 to take Egypt as well as sink the entire British fleet (less the destroyer in SZ 9) but man, it really thins you out and leaves you very little margin for error.

I still like pulling units out of Africa to hit Ukraine.  But I know I am in the minority.

That is my usual open, with SZ 9 being the lone variable.  I used to love going for the Ukraine but it doesn’t seem top help as much as going for Egypt.  I think if you can knock off that fig in Egy, Japan can put significant pressure very quickly on Russia via the India route.  I think the attack does pressure Russia more; just more from a Japanese ,and to a lesser extant Italian, standpoint.

Plus if you pull everything off: all UK ships sunk, Egy taken, no major Russian fiasco, and have a significant portion of your airforce (and maybe a sub or 2) alive and on the Atlantic coast, the Allies are in dire straights very early on.  The game is most likely at that point the Axis’ game to lose, rather than the Allies game to win.

[Jennifer]

Stacking Ukraine heavy really is nice too.  You can get 7 armor in there with some infantry support easily enough if you just forgo getting the NO.  Great tactic for games played without NOs, btw.

2 Armor from Poland; 2 Armor from Czechoslovakia; 3 infantry, Artillery; 2 Armor from Bulgaria; infantry, Armor from France.  Gives you a punch of 28 vs a defensive punch of 4.  Means 67% of the time you can expect to take no causalities in one round of combat.

That puts 4 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 7 Armor right next to Caucasus - virtually assuring you of taking it next round and thus negating any possible need for an Industrial Complex. (i highly doubt Russia has the firepower to liberate Caucasus on R2.  But if you are worried, have Italy take it and then land German fighters on Round 2.  I’m pretty sure Caucasus will be a ghost town after Russia 1 since they cannot possibly defend it.)

[Panzer Leader]

Gibraltor should be taken but not on T1. You need your German transport and therefore should not sacrifice it. I load it on the non combat move and move it to Italy’s sea zone and drop them in Lybia. If UK leaves its plane on Egypt them you go all out Egypt with Italy. IF they move some of their forces including the plane then you go after both Jordan and Egypt leaving the German transport unprotected, as long as the plane cannot hit the transport. Only UK bomber can hit it and they have to land on Gilbraltor. If they do this then you take out the bomber next turn. Sacrificing the transport for a bomber is not a bad choice. Itlaly can then take Gilbraltor as it becomes available without chance of retalliation. Also, if you move a couple of German troops (tank and guy) over to Italy on T1, they can then load on the transport on turn two and go through the Suez and hit below Egypt combined with the tanks on Lybia blitzing and take out the remaining UK force, leaving two guys on South Africa. :-D

[Twigley]

I recently as the UK used Gibraltar T1/2 quite successfully. It would make me think of taking (as the axis) it if I expected an allied attack from there.

Basically I bought 1 bomber, 2 industry. Now I know there are a lot of people who will say this or that was a mistake that they would never make etc, but this is what happened and it played out well.

Japan went heavy on Asia BUT critically although the UK indian ocean dd was sunk it shot down the single attacking FTR sent after it - the transport survived.
Germany had dodgy dice in the Atlantic and the British battleship and both transports survived.
Germany also went strongly against Russia and used her transport for that (again the dice unlike previous games were not overwhelming). Egypt was left alone by Germany.

All you need is one UK transport to survive and the Italian fleet is doomed. Especially if your battleship survives too!

So - you will agree. I was lucky - I had 3 units that could get into the med.

I transported 2 infantry to Gibraltar, and sent both UK fighters there, I used my Egypt fighter to clear the German transport and returned it to Egypt.

I moved my navy so that my BB was in SZ12 (just outside the med) and my transport was just inside in the western med. I moved my Indian ocean transport in the eastern med. This was to negate any Italian bombardments.

The Italians bought 2 tanks.

The Italians could not muster enough forces to sensibly get one of my planes and did not bother to try. Instead they went for the BB with 1 BB and 1 cruiser, and took the other Cruiser and attacked Egypt.

They got into Egypt OK. Though it was close (and they got my Egypt industry!). However - the next round was disastrous for them. The US destroyed the BB/Cruiser in sz12. The RAF on round 2 sent 2 fighters after the surviving cruiser/transport.

Of course - we both acknowledged that killing the UK BB and splitting the italians had been their undoing - but what were the choices? Even if the Italians round 1 had bought the best naval unit they could afford (a destroyer)the UK could have gone in there with a BB, 2 fighters and 2 bombers. Cutting the Italians legs out from under them before Round 2 was over led to an allied victory. The US followed with carrier, fighters and transports into Algeria round 2 and from then on the Italians were glued up trying to resist invasion under mounting allied Pressure. The UK got her industry back via US support and the Japanese were pulled south to assist, leaving Russia to hold up Germany as best she could with some UK support.

I will accept - there were some pretty bad axis dice at the start - but to be honest - the axis win most of the time when we play so we were BOTH glad the Allies had a fair show.

The moral of the story is. If you have good dice, so you can

a) get air and infantry to Gib round 1, and use American forces to keep Britain safe from invasion (esp. if Germany lost some air over the Atlantic)
b) buy a 2nd bomber

then the Italians probably won’t even have a navy to play with for round 2.

[axis_roll]

@Twigley:

. I moved my Indian ocean transport in the eastern med. This was to negate any Italian bombardments.

This is not true, the warships can just ignore the transport and still do their offshore if they wanted to.  Just pointed this out

[Twigley]

Oops! Well it was OK. We didn’t know that so my opponent cleared the transports anyway. Fortunately she didn’t go for Gibraltar either (which was my point) as she had a BB, an industry and a packed Gibraltar all in range anyway she was spoilt for choice with just 3 warships at her disposal!

But thanks for the info Axis_roll. I did check it in the rulebook so next time we play I’ll make sure I point that out.

[SgtBlitz]

Allies have too much in range or potentially in range of SZ 13 for the Italians to take Gib with 1 inf and leave the trans undefended (or even defended).  Losing that initial starting transport round 1 or round 2 really sucks for Italy as it doesn’t get hardly any money to start with, and the money you DO get you desperately need to spend on planes or ships to give your med fleet some defense, if you’re planning on making a run for the Italian NOs.

Really, if the Allies are gunning all out for Italy Rounds 1 and 2 with an Operation Torch strat, its difficult if not next to impossible for Italy to retain its fleet without German or Japanese help.  Building a fighter round1 and a carrier rounds 2,3,4… helps me out a lot, have german or japanese fighters land on the carrier(s) that you build in the future, and it makes the allies think twice about attacking the stack.  If you can get 1/2 of the japanse fleet to commit to rolling through the suez into the med you can seize the initiative and actually take the fight to the US and UK … works pretty well, and secures your NOs and the middle of the board for the rest of the game.  Just don’t pour too much into it or the Russians will eat you alive.

[Twigley]

Exactly SgtBlitz - that is my strategy (round 2 carrier). Which was why I thought - how can the UK knock out the Italians before they can even build a carrier?

If the axis ignore the British empire (or are unlucky in Egypt for instance) then the Brits should go in early and hard - the US should do an atlantic buy (carrier, transport, destroyer, fighter maybe - or a tank to put on the transport using the pacific fighters for the carrier) and so the Brits/US do a 1-2 punch against Algeria round 2 and take out the Italian fleet too.

It turns italy into a drain on Axis resources. Especially with an allied fleet in zone 12, no italian navy, and US forces shunting into North Africa. It’s also relatively cheap - over the course of the game the Axis can get less into Africa, so the Allies have to spend less on keeping it.

And it brings the Japanese south - and away from the Pacific.

Who knows? I just think that the Italians are the weakest axis. Hit em’ fast. Hit em’ hard. Seems to make sense.

[SgtBlitz]

And it can be a gigantic time/money sink for the Allies AND the Axis; really, does Italy HAVE to build 2-3 carriers + planes + open up the suez for Japan’s fleet just to get the 10 IPCs from Africa for a few rounds?  Or even the +20 with NOs from Africa and the Med, which the Allies can easily negate with SBRs and North Africa drops?  I’m leaning more towards Jenn’s strat with Italy, Africa is a minor theater and will never decide the course of the game unless the Allies simply ignore it.  IF you can get both Italy’s NOs for a few turns early game its worth it, but barely worth building all navy with Italy to hold, when those extra resources can be thrown at Russia.