15L DutchmanD (axis) vs variance (allies +3WB) GAME 1

[dutchmand]

10 hits in Greece.

[dutchmand]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 4 armour, 1 destroyer, 4 infantry and 6 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Vologda to Samara
            3 tactical_bombers moved from Novgorod to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 artillery moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 mech_infantry moved from Rostov to Caucasus
            4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Rostov to Volgograd
            2 bombers and 4 fighters moved from Ukraine to Greece
            3 bombers moved from Bryansk to Greece
            1 mech_infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia
            2 bombers moved from Western Germany to Greece

Airborne Attack Move - Germans
            2 infantry moved from Novgorod to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Yugoslavia
            2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Volgograd
                Germans attack with 4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys
                Russians defend with 3 armour and 1 factory_minor
                Germans win, taking Volgograd from Russians with 4 armour and 3 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 3 armour
            Battle in Tambov
                Germans attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 artillery
                Germans win, taking Tambov from Russians with 1 artillery and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Russians: 1 artillery
            Battle in Yugoslavia
                Germans attack with 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys
                Americans defend with 2 infantry
                Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Americans with 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
            Battle in Caucasus
                Germans attack with 1 mech_infantry
                Russians defend with 1 aaGun
                Germans win, taking Caucasus from Russians with 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
                Casualties for Russians: 1 aaGun
            Battle in Samara
                Germans attack with 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers
                Russians defend with 1 aaGun and 5 infantry
                retreated to Samara
                Russians win with 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for Germans: 3 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 aaGun and 2 infantry
            Battle in Greece
                Germans attack with 7 bombers and 4 fighters
                British defend with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber; Americans defend with 1 airfield, 1 bomber, 1 factory_minor and 1 fighter

[dutchmand]

OK, pending edits to that map:
1. There are only 2 German Mech in Yugo
2. There is 4 armor, 3 mech in Volgograd
3. There are only 2 Russian inf in Sam, not 3
4. Tambov is unchanged

[boldfresh]

@DutchmanD:

10 hits in Greece.

10 of 11???

[variance]

@Boldfresh:

@DutchmanD:

10 hits in Greece.

10 of 11???

I guess I lose all but 1 American fighter

[dutchmand]

You have 12 units there, so I’ll leave a uk fighter too. Ok?

[variance]

OK

[dutchmand]

@variance:

OK

OK, so I had an issue with the map load, daughter closed it and when I reopened it wasn’t right, so disregard that first die roll you got there just now, that was Germans firing, and of course the next roll is supposed to be from the Allied defenders of Greece.  I have it up and ready to go now.

[variance]

Hold up a second.  I hate to be a dick but the first set of dice rolls are
6,6,3,6,5,5 for 4 fighters and 2 bombers (1 hit).

And then the second set says
3,6,3,1,2,1 for 6 bombers (5 hits).

I think the first set should stand; not the second set.

[variance]

So I would have 6 fighters rolling on round 3.  Two of them rolled 1 and 3 and the other 4 roll….

dRolls: 4@4; Total Hits: 24@4: (2, 5, 6, 1)

[dutchmand]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 4 armour, 1 destroyer, 4 infantry and 6 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Vologda to Samara
            3 tactical_bombers moved from Novgorod to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 artillery moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 mech_infantry moved from Rostov to Caucasus
            4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Rostov to Volgograd
            2 bombers and 4 fighters moved from Ukraine to Greece
            3 bombers moved from Bryansk to Greece
            1 mech_infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia
            2 bombers moved from Western Germany to Greece

Airborne Attack Move - Germans
            2 infantry moved from Novgorod to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Yugoslavia
            2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Volgograd
                Germans attack with 4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys
                Russians defend with 3 armour and 1 factory_minor
                    Germans roll dice for 4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys in Volgograd, round 2 :  4/8 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 3 armour in Volgograd, round 2 :  1/3 hits
                    3 armour owned by the Russians and 1 mech_infantry owned by the Germans lost in Volgograd
                Germans win, taking Volgograd from Russians with 4 armour and 3 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 3 armour
            Battle in Tambov
                Germans attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 artillery
                    Germans roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Tambov, round 2 :  1/3 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery in Tambov, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    1 artillery owned by the Russians lost in Tambov
                Germans win, taking Tambov from Russians with 1 artillery and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Russians: 1 artillery
            Battle in Yugoslavia
                Germans attack with 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys
                Americans defend with 2 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys in Yugoslavia, round 2 :  2/6 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 2 infantry in Yugoslavia, round 2 :  0/2 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Yugoslavia
                Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Americans with 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
            Battle in Caucasus
                Germans attack with 1 mech_infantry
                Russians defend with 1 aaGun
                    1 aaGun owned by the Russians lost in Caucasus
                Germans win, taking Caucasus from Russians with 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
                Casualties for Russians: 1 aaGun
            Battle in Samara
                Germans attack with 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers
                Russians defend with 1 aaGun and 5 infantry
                    AA fire in Samara :  0/3 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers in Samara, round 2 :  1/6 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 aaGun and 5 infantry in Samara, round 2 :  2/5 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Germans and 1 aaGun owned by the Russians lost in Samara
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers in Samara, round 3 :  2/4 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 5 infantry in Samara, round 3 :  1/5 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Samara
                retreated to Samara
                Russians win with 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for Germans: 3 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 aaGun and 2 infantry
            Battle in Greece
                Germans attack with 7 bombers and 4 fighters
                British defend with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber; Americans defend with 1 airfield, 1 bomber, 1 factory_minor and 1 fighter
                    Germans roll dice for 7 bombers and 4 fighters in Greece, round 2 :  10/11 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 6 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Greece, round 2 :  5/12 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the British, 1 tactical_bomber owned by the British, 1 armour owned by the British, 1 bomber owned by the Germans, 1 artillery owned by the British, 4 fighters owned by the British, 1 bomber owned by the Americans and 4 fighters owned by the Germans lost in Greece
                    Germans roll dice for 6 bombers in Greece, round 3 :  5/6 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 2 fighters in Greece, round 3 :  2/2 hits
                    1 fighter owned by the Americans, 2 bombers owned by the Germans and 1 fighter owned by the British lost in Greece
                Germans win with 4 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 23
                Casualties for Germans: 3 bombers and 4 fighters
                Casualties for British: 1 armour, 1 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber and 1 fighter

Non Combat Move - Germans
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Yugoslavia: 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            3 tactical_bombers moved from Samara to Bryansk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Bryansk to Volgograd
            4 bombers moved from Greece to Southern Italy
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 armour moved from Ukraine to Romania
            1 infantry moved from Smolensk to Vologda
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            1 artillery moved from Finland to 115 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 115 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 109 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from 112 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 armour moved from Ukraine to Volgograd
            1 mech_infantry moved from Bryansk to Volgograd
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Bryansk
            1 armour moved from Ukraine to Bryansk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to Yugoslavia

Place Units - Germans
            1 armour and 2 infantry placed in Novgorod
            2 infantry placed in Western Germany
            1 mech_infantry placed in Western Germany
            3 armour placed in Ukraine
            5 mech_infantrys placed in Germany
            1 destroyer placed in 112 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 5
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 125 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 93 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,5
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,1,3,1,5,3,4,6,6,4,3,2,2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 105 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,1
            Germans collect 63 PUs (5 lost to blockades); end with 63 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 83 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Samara: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[dutchmand]

@variance:

Hold up a second.  I hate to be a dick but the first set of dice rolls are
6,6,3,6,5,5 for 4 fighters and 2 bombers (1 hit).

And then the second set says
3,6,3,1,2,1 for 6 bombers (5 hits).

I think the first set should stand; not the second set.

No, that die roll was before you rolled for Allied defense, so it is invalid.  That was a recreated round 1 that did not have the right air units in it, it is missing 4 bombers.  If you are saying that is my legit round 2, then it wouldn’t work anyway because it doesn’t have the right units in it.  You got five defensive hits, not 4, and I wouldn’t have killed the bombers in round 1 anyway.  The roll you saw has 4 fighters in it.  At any rate, as you can see by the time stamps, that roll occurred before the Allies rolled in defense on round 1.

[boldfresh]

Time stamps.  Whatever the first valid roll was stands.

[variance]

Sorry, but the first set of dice are what count.  You rolled 6 dice and got 1 hit not 5.  So I am left with a fighter.  If you want to roll a third round you can, but the first die rolled for my fighters (I was short 1 not 4) was a 2.  So we can leave the fighter or you can roll a third round with your remaining bombers and kill it but then you lose a bomber because it already got a hit.  Up to you.

[dutchmand]

The “first set” of dice was the ten hits, that was yesterday. Valid roll.  The next valid roll would be your defensive fire.  Then, after I select my casualties, I choose to continue the attack or withdraw. Any roll before that is invalid.

There is no “first set” that counts today until after you rolled your defensive fire.

That roll you saw in your email was a re-roll of round 1 from a reconstructed map that I did, as I had to reconstruct the TripleA map to the right spot, because the map where we were for the last day was closed and I did not have a save, I was going to proceed through the battle and edit, but the first roll that was going to be VALID roll was going to be your defensive roll in round 1, which we both know was not rolled as yet.  However, as I rolled the INVALID German round 1 (invalid because it had already been rolled yesterday, and we already discussed the losses from it), I realized that I did not have the correct units for the battle, it was missing 4 bombers.  At the same time I realized that fact, I also realized that we actually did have a save of the battle, the one I had posted on the site from the manual post-save feature, so I then dl’d that map and we proceeded, finally with the round 1 defensive roll, which still had not been rolled.

So, the roll that you saw in the Marti email was invalid for 3 separate reasons:
1. It proceeded the defensive roll;
2. It was a re-roll of round 1, which had already been validly rolled; and
3. The correct units were not in the roll, as it was missing 4 bombers.

And, an invalid round 2 roll for the reasons above AND
4. If you are claiming that is a 2nd round roll, it is invalid because it preceded my selection of casualties from you defensive fire that had not been rolled.

[dutchmand]

There is no disagreement between us that the manual-post map that I posted yesterday is the valid map for G9, correct?  If that is the case, then why would you argue that the dice in the first email this morning were valid, when they clearly did not come from that map?

[variance]

OK its not worth arguing about.  Its a matter of 1 bomber or fighter either way.  Go ahead and post it and I will do Russia

[dutchmand]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 4 armour, 1 destroyer, 4 infantry and 6 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Vologda to Samara
            3 tactical_bombers moved from Novgorod to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 artillery moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 mech_infantry moved from Rostov to Caucasus
            4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Rostov to Volgograd
            2 bombers and 4 fighters moved from Ukraine to Greece
            3 bombers moved from Bryansk to Greece
            1 mech_infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia
            2 bombers moved from Western Germany to Greece

Airborne Attack Move - Germans
            2 infantry moved from Novgorod to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Yugoslavia
            2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Volgograd
                Germans attack with 4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys
                Russians defend with 3 armour and 1 factory_minor
                    Germans roll dice for 4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys in Volgograd, round 2 :  4/8 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 3 armour in Volgograd, round 2 :  1/3 hits
                    3 armour owned by the Russians and 1 mech_infantry owned by the Germans lost in Volgograd
                Germans win, taking Volgograd from Russians with 4 armour and 3 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 3 armour
            Battle in Tambov
                Germans attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 artillery
                    Germans roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Tambov, round 2 :  1/3 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery in Tambov, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    1 artillery owned by the Russians lost in Tambov
                Germans win, taking Tambov from Russians with 1 artillery and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Russians: 1 artillery
            Battle in Yugoslavia
                Germans attack with 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys
                Americans defend with 2 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys in Yugoslavia, round 2 :  2/6 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 2 infantry in Yugoslavia, round 2 :  0/2 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Yugoslavia
                Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Americans with 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
            Battle in Caucasus
                Germans attack with 1 mech_infantry
                Russians defend with 1 aaGun
                    1 aaGun owned by the Russians lost in Caucasus
                Germans win, taking Caucasus from Russians with 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
                Casualties for Russians: 1 aaGun
            Battle in Samara
                Germans attack with 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers
                Russians defend with 1 aaGun and 5 infantry
                    AA fire in Samara :  0/3 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers in Samara, round 2 :  1/6 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 aaGun and 5 infantry in Samara, round 2 :  2/5 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Germans and 1 aaGun owned by the Russians lost in Samara
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers in Samara, round 3 :  2/4 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 5 infantry in Samara, round 3 :  1/5 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Samara
                retreated to Samara
                Russians win with 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for Germans: 3 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 aaGun and 2 infantry
            Battle in Greece
                Germans attack with 7 bombers and 4 fighters
                British defend with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber; Americans defend with 1 airfield, 1 bomber, 1 factory_minor and 1 fighter
                    Germans roll dice for 7 bombers and 4 fighters in Greece, round 2 :  10/11 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 6 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Greece, round 2 :  5/12 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the British, 1 tactical_bomber owned by the British, 1 armour owned by the British, 1 bomber owned by the Germans, 1 artillery owned by the British, 4 fighters owned by the British, 1 bomber owned by the Americans and 4 fighters owned by the Germans lost in Greece
                    Germans roll dice for 6 bombers in Greece, round 3 :  5/6 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 2 fighters in Greece, round 3 :  2/2 hits
                    1 fighter owned by the Americans, 2 bombers owned by the Germans and 1 fighter owned by the British lost in Greece
                Germans win with 4 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 23
                Casualties for Germans: 3 bombers and 4 fighters
                Casualties for British: 1 armour, 1 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber and 1 fighter

Non Combat Move - Germans
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Yugoslavia: 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            3 tactical_bombers moved from Samara to Bryansk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Bryansk to Volgograd
            4 bombers moved from Greece to Southern Italy
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 armour moved from Ukraine to Romania
            1 infantry moved from Smolensk to Vologda
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            1 artillery moved from Finland to 115 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 115 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 109 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from 112 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 armour moved from Ukraine to Volgograd
            1 mech_infantry moved from Bryansk to Volgograd
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Bryansk
            1 armour moved from Ukraine to Bryansk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to Yugoslavia

Place Units - Germans
            1 armour and 2 infantry placed in Novgorod
            2 infantry placed in Western Germany
            1 mech_infantry placed in Western Germany
            3 armour placed in Ukraine
            5 mech_infantrys placed in Germany
            1 destroyer placed in 112 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 5
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 125 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 93 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,5
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,1,3,1,5,3,4,6,6,4,3,2,2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 105 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,1
            Germans collect 63 PUs (5 lost to blockades); end with 63 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 83 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Samara: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[variance]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy nothing; Remaining resources: 14 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 armour and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Russia to Novosibirsk
                  Russians take Novosibirsk from Germans
            1 fighter and 1 infantry moved from Russia to Vologda
            1 infantry moved from Samara to Kazakhstan

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Vologda
                Russians attack with 1 fighter and 1 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Russians
            1 fighter moved from Vologda to Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 6 PUs; end with 20 PUs total
            Russians collect 4 PUs from War Bonds; end with 24 PUs total

[variance]

Just to be clear, I am certain you are wrong.