• Rail movement: Units in your capital territory can move 2 or 3 spaces. The limit of units you can move per turn is the IPC value of your capital.

  • Customizer

    @texasranger97:

    Rail movement: Units in your capital territory can move 2 or 3 spaces. The limit of units you can move per turn is the IPC value of your capital.

    I like it. The only thing I would add is this:
    Units in any capital territory can move 2 or 3 spaces.

    This will address Flashman’s concern about units moving back from Moscow, as conquered capitals can now be used as rail hubs as well as one’s own capital.


  • The only house rules I think would be necessary to make the game better (not perfect but better) would be as follows.

    1. No one can invade non-aligned neutral powers.

    2. Tanks do not become available until turn 5

    3. Fighters do not become available until turn 3 (or maybe 2 but at that point what’s the difference)

    4. The US can not declare war (unless attacked or unrestricted sub warfare) until turn 6, and can’t leave the US tt

    5. The Russian capitol is in Petrograd not Moscow (and adjust the Russian Rev rules to reflect this)

    that would be it for me, this is all I would change to make the game better.


  • @Clyde85:

    The only house rules I think would be necessary to make the game better (not perfect but better) would be as follows.

    1. No one can invade non-aligned neutral powers.

    2. Tanks do not become available until turn 5

    3. Fighters do not become available until turn 3 (or maybe 2 but at that point what’s the difference)

    4. The US can not declare war (unless attacked or unrestricted sub warfare) until turn 6, and can’t leave the US tt

    5. The Russian capitol is in Petrograd not Moscow (and adjust the Russian Rev rules to reflect this)

    that would be it for me, this is all I would change to make the game better.

    Turn 6 for the USA?  Wow with 8 players (7 active if the US doesn’t do anything), you are probably looking at a minimum hour/turn (8 players in an hour).  You really want it to be 6 hours before the US can even move, much less 7-8 hours before they can fight?  I understand the US had a much delayed entry into the war, but they don’t make very much money and they have to ship everything over, so they won’t have a large effect on the war as it is.

  • Customizer

    Do not play this game with 8 players.

    Maximum should be 7, with one player controlling Allied Russia & the US.

    Re: Clyde85 House Rules:

    1. No Swiss Roll? Actually, the only NANs in the game who were invaded were Greece and Persia.

    Greece is a strange case in that the King was pro-German, while the government was pro-Allied.

    Arguably Persia should be aligned to the Russians (North) and British (South) who had effectively partitioned the country.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Russian_Convention_of_1907#The_Anglo-Russian_Convention_of_1907.5B1.5D

    3. Depends on how air combat works. Major powers had aircraft in 1914, but they were not fighters. They nevertheless performed the artillery spotting role.

    The best idea is to start with basic planes which have a 1-1 combat ability, with each year of the war introducing more powerful fighters rising to 4-4.

    5. Moving capital to Petrograd must be accompanied by some form of rail movement otherwise Russia will not be able to reinforce the southern tts quickly enough.

    @BJCard:

    @Clyde85:

    The only house rules I think would be necessary to make the game better (not perfect but better) would be as follows.

    1. No one can invade non-aligned neutral powers.

    2. Tanks do not become available until turn 5

    3. Fighters do not become available until turn 3 (or maybe 2 but at that point what’s the difference)

    4. The US can not declare war (unless attacked or unrestricted sub warfare) until turn 6, and can’t leave the US tt

    5. The Russian capitol is in Petrograd not Moscow (and adjust the Russian Rev rules to reflect this)

    that would be it for me, this is all I would change to make the game better.

    Turn 6 for the USA?  Wow with 8 players (7 active if the US doesn’t do anything), you are probably looking at a minimum hour/turn (8 players in an hour).  You really want it to be 6 hours before the US can even move, much less 7-8 hours before they can fight?  I understand the US had a much delayed entry into the war, but they don’t make very much money and they have to ship everything over, so they won’t have a large effect on the war as it is.


  • What about Tech? Is there some kind of simple Tech Tree that we could add?


  • Cavalry units from Risk could be used.  Maybe 1 att 2 def 2 move 4 cost.


  • @MeinFuhrer:

    Cavalry units from Risk could be used.  Maybe 1 att 2 def 2 move 4 cost.

    While we’re at it, let’s cannibalize Monopoly for armored cars and chess for attack clergy, eh?


  • How about stealing from Risk for a KISS version of rail movement (for those attracted to such simplicity):

    “Move as many units as you would like from one, and only one, of your territories into another. The two territories (the one you are moving from and the one you are moving to) need not be adjacent but there must be a safe “path” between them. This means that you must be able to travel from the first territory to the last through territories that you control. If you have to pass through an enemy territory or a neutral territory then you cannot use rail movement between the two territories.”

    The question of contested territories arises. Like Flashman, I feel players shouldn’t be able to rail move into battle. I would therefore advocate prohibiting a rail move ending in a contested territory or not allowing a player to attack in a contested territory that has received units via rail movement this turn.

    Alternatively, as in Risk, the rail move could come after all combat as been resolved, making it more like the fortifying movement it is in Risk. This way, reinforcements could be brought up to fortify contested areas or prepare for an offensive on a future turn, without worrying about rail movement unleashing sudden offensives with troops from the other side of the board.

    The other question that remains is whether to allow rail movement through contested territories. I have no problem with rail movement out of contested territories or into contested territories, but through? My first instinct is yes: rail networks existed behind the front lines.

    Thoughts?


  • @BJCard:

    Turn 6 for the USA?  Wow with 8 players (7 active if the US doesn’t do anything), you are probably looking at a minimum hour/turn (8 players in an hour).

    How would it take an hour for a turn? I think the closest we ever got to an hour for a full turn was turn one of Global 1940 but that’s about it. Remember, this game is going to be much more streamlined, there is only one movement phase (no combat and non-combat movement, just movement), and the combat phase is also simplified to one combat roll per-side (attacker and defender). Given this I don’t see how it would take anywhere near an hour to play even the first turn.

    Also, as Flashman stated, you should not be playing this game with 8 players, given that Russia can be knocked out of the war, and the US doesn’t enter until late, have one player control both.

    @BJCard:

    You really want it to be 6 hours before the US can even move, much less 7-8 hours before they can fight?  I understand the US had a much delayed entry into the war, but they don’t make very much money and they have to ship everything over, so they won’t have a large effect on the war as it is.

    The US declared war on the Central Powers on April 6th 1917 and the war ended on November 11th 1918, so the US was “at war” with Germany for a total of about 1 year, 7 months, and 5 days, so their involvement in World War 1 was very limited. Also, even though we declared war in 1917 US troops didn’t arrive in force or even engage in combat until the spring of 1918 (the minor incident in Cambrai not withstanding), So I don’t really see the need to include the US any earlier then turn 6th.

    IF we were going to be 100% honest with ourselves about it, American involvement in World War 1 was, at best, decisive but more anecdotal than anything else. The main reason the US is included in this game, and (IMHO) has to be included in they way they are, is because the game is being made by an American company for a largely American audience.


  • @Auztria:

    @MeinFuhrer:

    Cavalry units from Risk could be used.  Maybe 1 att 2 def 2 move 4 cost.

    While we’re at it, let’s cannibalize Monopoly for armored cars and chess for attack clergy, eh?

    LOL, I’m just set on having cavalry units.  Perhaps there are some that you can purchase on FMG or HBG, don’t know, but I do know I have a Risk game that hasn’t been played since I started playing A&A.

  • Customizer

    @Clyde85:

    IF we were going to be 100% honest with ourselves about it, American involvement in World War 1 was, at best, decisive but more anecdotal than anything else. The main reason the US is included in this game, and (IMHO) has to be included in they way they are, is because the game is being made by an American company for a largely American audience.

    This is a widely accepted belief, but one that has been challenged by recent historians. The truth is that, for most of the war, the Allies were out of their depth in terms of weapons technology and tactical innovation, and by 1918 were in danger of being overwhelmed by German forces returning from the newly pacified Eastern Front.

    It can be debated that without the U.S.‘s intervention, the Allies on the Western Front would have been overrun.
    I challenge all those European elitists who seem so intent on ignoring the United States’ influence to try playing the game without them as a power, and see how many times they win as the Allies.

    P.S. I’ll go ahead and call it: “But Larry Harris is American, so of course he designed the U.S. to be central to victory!”  :roll: Again, I cite this book: http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Great-War-Military-History/dp/0060084332/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362495407&sr=1-1&keywords=myth+of+the+great+war


  • I agree that you wouldn’t have 8 players.  I probably would never play this with more than 3 per side.  I could see the game taking an hour per turn though.  You don’t think it takes at least ten minutes per power?  Sometimes it takes me ten minutes to just plan my attacks.

    As Germany for example… gotta calculate how many troops I need in a west front territory to hold it from successive allies counter attacks, sometimes two-three turns in advance.  How many troops will I get Austria to use against Italy? Russia?  Will the Ottomans need help from Austria?  If yes then maybe Germany needs to help Austria- how much do I send south or east with the Austrians?  ugh.  There are tons of things to think about in this game.

    Another country that would take some time to think through is Britain… How and where to reinforce- France? Russia? Italy? Africa? India?  I would agonize over that decision.

    If you guys can get 8 country turns in under an hour, then either you aren’t thinking that far ahead or you guys are much faster than me


  • @ossel:

    This is a widely accepted belief, but one that has been challenged by recent historians. The truth is that, for most of the war, the Allies were out of their depth in terms of weapons technology and tactical innovation, and by 1918 were in danger of being overwhelmed by German forces returning from the newly pacified Eastern Front.

    It can be debated that without the U.S.‘s intervention, the Allies on the Western Front would have been overrun.
    I challenge all those European elitists who seem so intent on ignoring the United States’ influence to try playing the game without them as a power, and see how many times they win as the Allies.

    P.S. I’ll go ahead and call it: "But Larry Harris is American, so of course he designed the U.S. to be central to victory!"� :roll: Again, I cite this book: http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Great-War-Military-History/dp/0060084332/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362495407&sr=1-1&keywords=myth+of+the+great+war

    No I agree with you, that’s why I said the US involvement was “decisive but anecdotal”. We played such a small part in the greater conflict but the part the US played was important, just in a more indirect way than a direct combat sorta way. To be honest I think that Germany’s defeat had more to do with Germany’s own strategic mistakes then anything done by the Allies (minus the blockade of course). The final Spring Offensive by the Germans, I feel, was more of a desperate last throw of the dice, that could have succeed (whether or not the US was involved) had the Germans not made several strategic mistakes in their planning (and had some oversight on what that dope Ludendorff was doing).


  • @BJCard:

    If you guys can get 8 country turns in under an hour, then either you aren’t thinking that far ahead or you guys are much faster than me

    I think that’s the crux of the matter right there. We do think many turns ahead, but were doing it during the other players turns so that when our turn comes around we can just go. Also, I don’t know about you, but I usually have a battle plan mapped out before I go into a game based on my prior analysis of all possible moves, and reactions to possible enemy counter moves.


  • @Clyde85:

    @BJCard:

    If you guys can get 8 country turns in under an hour, then either you aren’t thinking that far ahead or you guys are much faster than me

    I think that’s the crux of the matter right there. We do think many turns ahead, but were doing it during the other players turns so that when our turn comes around we can just go. Also, I don’t know about you, but I usually have a battle plan mapped out before I go into a game based on my prior analysis of all possible moves, and reactions to possible enemy counter moves.

    I agree with you on principle, especially if it is 1v1, but when you go to 2v2 or 3v3 games, things change fairly suddenly- you may have planned on that British Incursion to the Med, but after Germany got great dice or France decided to buy fleet instead of infantry, you may have to rethink.  A lot of times side conversations start to happen during someone else’s turn (you are waiting a while for your turn to come up after all), prolonging the game as well.  Even if you know you plan before your turn, it takes some time to move units, roll dice, and place units.  I suppose you could be fairly efficient at that and be under ten minutes, but not much- especially if there are more than one attack.

  • Customizer

    @BJCard:

    @Clyde85:

    @BJCard:

    If you guys can get 8 country turns in under an hour, then either you aren’t thinking that far ahead or you guys are much faster than me

    I think that’s the crux of the matter right there. We do think many turns ahead, but were doing it during the other players turns so that when our turn comes around we can just go. Also, I don’t know about you, but I usually have a battle plan mapped out before I go into a game based on my prior analysis of all possible moves, and reactions to possible enemy counter moves.

    I agree with you on principle, especially if it is 1v1, but when you go to 2v2 or 3v3 games, things change fairly suddenly- you may have planned on that British Incursion to the Med, but after Germany got great dice or France decided to buy fleet instead of infantry, you may have to rethink.  A lot of times side conversations start to happen during someone else’s turn (you are waiting a while for your turn to come up after all), prolonging the game as well.  Even if you know you plan before your turn, it takes some time to move units, roll dice, and place units.  I suppose you could be fairly efficient at that and be under ten minutes, but not much- especially if there are more than one attack.

    I think, all planning and sidebars aside, the fact that there’s only one movement phase, only one round per combat, and dice on the battleboard instead of moving units, is going to shorten things dramatically. I don’t see it taking much longer than 10-20 mins per player turn.


  • Hi, I typically participate at the Forumini boards, but I decided to register here because I am very excited about the expansion of Axis & Allies into World War I territory.

    To my mind, the biggest flaws that I can see with the game as written right now are the way that the US enters (it seems far too soon and far too arbitrary, and for those who talk about playing the game with seven people, hats off to you - I think the most people I’ve ever gathered for a strategy game has been 4, and that’s rare) and the so-called “Russian Revolution” rules.

    The first flaw (US entry) could be tied to the damage done to England (as Tuchman pointed out in The Proud Tower, everyone referred to the country as England before the war) by German submarines.  Essentially, let the Germans declare Unrestricted Submarine Warfare whenever they want to without the US entering (which is historically accurate), but be prepared that once a certain level of damage is reached the US enters.  If that doesn’t happen, have the US come in on Turn 6.  (I am thinking of each turn as half a year, so Turn 1 - 1914, Turns 2 and 3 - 1915, Turns 4 and 5 - 1916, Turns 6-7 - 1917, etc.).  What the IPC damage should be is hard to say.

    The Russian Revolution rules should be completely and totally scrapped, however.  They are FUBAR.  The Russian Revolution didn’t take Russia out of the war.  It continued to fight until after the Bolshevik coup (later re-named the “Great October Socialist Revolution” in 1928, even the Bolsheviks didn’t call it a revolution for ten years).  However, Russia wasn’t the only country that worried about a revolution.  England saw the Easter Uprising in Ireland and was nervous about a Labour uprising closer to home.  There was a widescale mutiny in the French army (the French Mutiny), and the Austrians were hanging on by their fingernails after 1916.  The Germans were close to revolution when they surrendered.

    As a result, the way to incorporate the massive unrest caused by sustained war would be to implement a system that substitutes the Russian Revolution rules with universal rules applicable to everyone.  Mark Stability Points (SP) at 20 for each country at the start of the game.  Then add a new step at the beginning of every turn.  First roll two dice.  If the result is less than the current SP of the nation, continue to the turn as normal.  If you roll the SP of the country by exact count, the country loses a turn due to political instability (February Revolution, French Mutiny, or similar event).  If you roll greater than the current SP of the nation, the country is out of the game (use the existing Russian Revolution rules for how to deal with the effect of this).  Then reduce the nation’s SP by one if it is at war (i.e., the US doesn’t lose SP each turn while it is neutral).  The SP can never be higher than 20 minus the number of turns the nation has been at war.

    Then, on the purchase units step, you add two options: 1 - add 1 SP for 5 IPCs (to the maximum SP), 2 - spend 5 IPCs to reduce another nation’s SP by 1 (only one enemy reduction is allowed per country per full round of play, so each Central Power can’t spend to destabilize Russia, but Germany could destabilize Russia, Austria could destabilize Italy and the Ottoman Empire could destabilize England).

    Then, when combat results are tallied, for each 5 infantry lost, the country losing the troops suffers a loss of 1 SP.  Fractions are rounded down and do not carry over from turn to turn.

    Finally, at the end of the turn, for each two territories of your original territory that are occupied at the end of your turn, lose 1 SP (fractions rounded down).

  • Customizer

    I’ve had something along these lines in mind all along, though somewhat simpler. I don’t particularly like being able to buy your way out of instability; things should start to get out of control.

    Why just infantry losses?  I have a -1 to morale (or stability if you prefer) for every 10 units destroyed, of every type.

    I agree that every power should be vulnerable to revolution, though there are good reasons why Russia was particularly at risk.

    You don’t say what you’d do in the event of revolution: do you have Reds vs Whites “Civil War” rules such as those I’ve described elsewhere?


  • To address each of your points:

    1. My thinking was that infantry losses reflected a loss of large numbers of people, as opposed to losing a tank, where you’re talking effectively about losing 10-20 vehicles, or a plane, where you’re losing a few vehicles at most.  It was the horrific human cost of the war that led to revolution, mutiny and disorder.  That’s why I thought the infantry should be the standard.

    2. As for “buying your way out”, it’s still a difficult prospect, because if you divert 5-10 IPCs every turn to staving off revolution (which could be done, of course - improving the lives of civilians would divert them from the war, but only by diverting needed supplies at the front) you’re neglecting your military goals.  It’s a balancing act - spend just enough to stay out of revolution without depleting the Front completely.

    3. Regarding Russia being particularly at risk, I think that the “occupation of home territories” component of political instability is something that will hit Russia disproportionately hard, based on what we know about the game setup and the fact that Russia is sort of cut off from the other Allies.

    4. The Russian Civil War really started to take contours in 1919, so I think that it would generally be outside the scope of the game.  There was no strategic advantage gained by the Allies in their limited intervention in the Civil War, which is why it ended.  For purposes of the larger war, the idea is that any nation that drops out is just out of the war.  That’s not to say I wouldn’t start looking at creating a fun mini-game using the pieces from this one (but you’d have to add in cavalry).

Suggested Topics

  • 7
  • 3
  • 3
  • 3
  • 25
  • 6
  • 3
  • 27
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures

36

Online

17.0k

Users

39.3k

Topics

1.7m

Posts