What do you think would be cool Russian Revolution rules for upcoming WWI game?


  • I think it should be something along the lines like Japan’s Surrender in the Old Pacific game

  • Customizer

    In reference to national morale tracking, I’ve suggested that each victory and defeats move a country’s marker up and down.

    This brings to mind the issue of powers sharing a tt. I assume that all versions will allow the Western Allies to share areas on the western front, and therefore defend together. Wouldn’t this create a big problem if, as seems likely, Larry sticks to giving each of 8 nations its own turn?
    That is, France, Britain, USA and if you want Italy can all defend a tt together, but only attack individually. That means that, unless they build an absolutely HUGE multi-national stack in Eastern France, they will never be able to attack a German tt with enough force to win. Conversely, if they do have a big mixed force, they’ll be able to hit Germany with 4 successive attacks without the Germans being able to reinforce the tt, except perhaps with Austrian units.

    So the “All CPs play, then All Allies play” seems the only fair way to set turn order. Yet I can’t see Larry doing this - “that’s the way its always been; that’s the way it always will be”.

    But to get back to morale tracking, if a multi-national force does attack together and win a tt, who gets to control it? Who gets the glory (+ morale)? If its shared, then do Italy get the boost even if they only supply one unit?  Even if mixed attacks are not possible, armies will still defend together and therefore have to share the glory of a winning defence.

    Does every tt have to be put under the nominal command of a single power? Is it down to who has the most units involved?

    I’ve suggested that the Allies never annex tts, they only liberate them; but Germany and Austria might face the problem. One solution to this (ref my map) is that the board is predetermined into spheres of influence - to use this example Russia north of Pripet is assigned to Germany, south of the marshes to Austria.

    Anyhow, if I don’t find an answer to this perhaps the simplest way to reflect morale is simple numbers of losses. Give the game a “Casualties Box” for all destroyed units; whenever a country has 10 units in there reduce its morale by one and return the units to the pool.

  • Customizer

    OK, let me go with this for a bit. Personally, I think the idea of a mandatory Russian Revolution at the end of what, turn 4, is wrong and potentially game-wrecking.

    But lets assume for argument’s sake that it is a set rule, along with America coming in the previous turn.

    The following difficulties occur:

    1. It practically encourages Germany & Austria not to bother fighting on the Eastern Front. As long as they can hold Berlin & Vienna for 4 turns, they know for certain that the Russians will then vanish into thin air, allowing the CPs to simply walk back into any tt they’ve lost, and perhaps even into vacated Russian tt.

    2. What happens to minor powers controlled by Russia - the map suggests this will include Serbia, Montenegro and Romania: do their armies (presumably represented by Russian units) also disappear? Romania would only have 2 turns as an active power before it AUTOMATICALLY becomes, in effect, part of Austria. Or are these minor countries handed over to another Allied player, in which case how do you decide which are their units, and which are vanishing Russians?

    3. I’ll assume that other Allies are not permitted on Russian soil before the revolution, otherwise they’ll be encouraged to move French/British/Italian units into Russia simply to hold the tts after the Russians are gone.

    At the very least, I think Russia should be able to delay the revolution by winning battles, holding/capturing tt and keeping casualties down. But then, I think the same system should be applied to EVERY country; after all it was fear of revolution that forced the CPs to sue for peace.

    I’ve drawn a border on my map reflecting the Brest-Litovsk treaty line. If we assume that the revolution automatically leads to the treaty, then Germany & Austria should be allowed to enter into every Russian tt west of this line; that is Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, White Russia, Ukraine, Crimea; and Turkey into the Trans-Caucasus.
    That’s a lot of tt for the CP to get simply by waiting for an unavoidable Russian collapse. If this is the rule, then I would suggest that the CP must physically occupy each one of these Russian tts with a land unit in order to exploit (collect income) from it.

    In fact, I think this should be a general rule - in a tt not originally your own, you should have to hold it down with units. Consider that all the tts listed above are not ethnically Russian; the inhabitants were more concerned with setting up their own governments than what was happening in Russia. So, if such a tt is vacated by Germany, it becomes independent.

    What I guess the official rule will be is this:

    The CPs get to keep only the Russian tt they hold when Russia collapses. In other words, the revolution is set in stone; the terms of the treaty are ignored. This is as far as I can see the only way of keeping both sides interested in fighting the war in the east on a relatively normal basis before any mandatory Russian drop-out.

    Another treaty condition to consider is that of returning POWs. About 2 million Austrian and 1/4 million Germans returned home under the treaty, many to be redirected into the army depots. Make this a set number, or dependent on the number of casualties suffered? Again, it seems wrong to enforce the exact historical conditions of 1917/18 on a game starting in 1914.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk


  • @Yavid:

    I think it should be something along the lines like Japan’s Surrender in the Old Pacific game

    Oooooo, I like this, nice and simple.

  • Customizer

    @DarthShizNit:

    @Yavid:

    I think it should be something along the lines like Japan’s Surrender in the Old Pacific game

    Oooooo, I like this, nice and simple.

    Just like you.

    Go play Risk.


  • @Flashman:

    @DarthShizNit:

    @Yavid:

    I think it should be something along the lines like Japan’s Surrender in the Old Pacific game

    Oooooo, I like this, nice and simple.

    Just like you.

    Go play Risk.

    naw I’ll be cont. to play Axis and Allies seeing as my idea is based loosely on something that has appeared in Axis and Allies game.


  • @Flashman:

    @DarthShizNit:

    @Yavid:

    I think it should be something along the lines like Japan’s Surrender in the Old Pacific game

    Oooooo, I like this, nice and simple.

    Just like you.

    Go play Risk.

    Excuse me?


  • @DarthShizNit:

    @Yavid:

    I think it should be something along the lines like Japan’s Surrender in the Old Pacific game

    Oooooo, I like this, nice and simple.

    Yeah, and the main thing is that the Russian Revolution using that mechanic will almost always be more sensical from a historical viewpoint than if it were scheduled, not to mention the cool fact that the Germans would have to earn the revolution and Russia can do something to avoid it.


  • Well yeah, it makes no sense for it to be a specific date. If Russia has just conquered Budapest I don’t think they would fall into revolution because the rules say so. It will probably just be like the original Pacific, if their income falls bellow a certain amount at any time (Larry mentioned something about unrestricted sub warfare so this could be factored in) then they’re out. It’s clean and simple and is something that we know worked well with the A&A formula in the past….plus that mechanic made for some amzing games if the allied player knew how to stop the India crush and it turned into a naval war in the central pacific, counting down the clock and both sides trying to gain victory.


  • Hey Flashman, you are well informed and have good ideas BUT I can assure you that these thoughts will lead to complex rules which Larry would like to prevent especially for this initial release which is supposed to bring some numbers in!

    I am curious how he avoids some of your described problems but we will see.

    In an advanced game/collector’s editon whatsoever things might be different!

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