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    I think it’s worth it. 8 extra IPC’s (including Scotland) for every round, $28 Capital cash from the UK, and a $5 NO for every round you hold London, but the best reason for successfully attempting sealion is to prevent an allied power from placing units on the board as early as round 2. As for Russia, I like it when they come toward Berlin, better to battle those units close to home rather than trying to chase them all over Russia. I leave Poland and Romania thin so I can entice Russia to attack therefore creating a war of attrition close to my Factories (a war Russia can’t win because they are far from home and the money will eventually favor Germany) instead of spreading thin across vast russian ground and leaving territories open. I admit that if Germany does sealion, they won’t be able to take the attack to Moscow, but if they play their cards right…… they won’t have to.

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    @WILD:

    The one thing I have learned is if you are even thinking of SL, don’t buy an IC for Romania. Been there, done that, wouldn’t recommended it  :?

    I have bought an IC for Romania at the beginning of G2 (before sealion) and have placed it at the end of G2 (after sealion) and the only way it will work is if Italy sends units to Romania I1 and I2 to reenforce it before Russia enters the war. but recently I have been contemplating building it in Hungary.


  • building it in Hungary.

    Well there’s not really a point in doing that.
    Hungary is only 1 space from Germany.  Just use that 30 IPCs to build stuff in Berlin and move it to Hungary the next turn.  It takes the same amount of time to get there, and uses 30 less IPCs.

    The only reason Romania works is because it’s closer to the Ukraine.  Even then it’s tough to justify the 30 IPCs.

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    @Alsch91:

    building it in Hungary.

    Well there’s not really a point in doing that.
    Hungary is only 1 space from Germany.  Just use that 30 IPCs to build stuff in Berlin and move it to Hungary the next turn.  It takes the same amount of time to get there, and uses 30 less IPCs.

    The only reason Romania works is because it’s closer to the Ukraine.  Even then it’s tough to justify the 30 IPCs.

    Well after SL, Germany will need to flex some mussel south toward Bessarabia because that direction will be bare even if Italy helps. I have also been thinking that 2 Minors (1 in Hungary and 1 in Yugoslavia) might also work when the Russians try to take Poland and Romania. they will also collectively cost less than 1 Major IC and they might be easier to protect.


  • Another thing to remember, with the mobility afforded Germany by those trns in the Baltic, if Russia lunges hard into Europe you can land at Novgorod and force him to retreat.  If they don’t retreat you might get lucky like I did once and cut off their army from Russia.  No more reinforcements for the Reds!  Just remember to keep your northern options open, if Russia is strong in the south flank him in the North to threaten Moscow and force a retreat.


  • and one of the moves ive found comes as a surprise lately is building 1AC, 2 trns like your going to do a SL, then build them in z112 and you can use 3 move(NB) to get to z127  :-D russia ussually leaves this undefended

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    @JimmyHat:

    Another thing to remember, with the mobility afforded Germany by those trns in the Baltic, if Russia lunges hard into Europe you can land at Novgorod and force him to retreat.  If they don’t retreat you might get lucky like I did once and cut off their army from Russia.  No more reinforcements for the Reds!   Just remember to keep your northern options open, if Russia is strong in the south flank him in the North to threaten Moscow and force a retreat.

    Understood, but I fought hard to get Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Greece and I don’t want to loose them to a southern push by Russia.


  • Well to keep it in perspective Moscow > Balkan States.

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    @thatonekid:

    and one of the moves ive found comes as a surprise lately is building 1AC, 2 trns like your going to do a SL, then build them in z112 and you can use 3 move(NB) to get to z127  :-D russia ussually leaves this undefended

    That’s a very cool idea.  I forget that you can get to Leningrad from SZ 127.  Don’t you also send a destroyer to deal with the Soviet submarine?
    I think Sealion is very useful if you can pull it off.  It’s especially good for Italy.  If UK defends too much on London, so Germany doesn’t do Sealion, even if UK doesn’t get off of England, they can make things really tough for the Italains in Africa.  However, if England falls, Italy basically has a free hand in Africa, the Med and the Middle East.
    As for the Soviets, I’ve found that a certain pattern happens:  Germany attacks and smashes the Soviet front lines, USSR counterattacks and kills one or two of the front German armies (usually with pretty bad loss to their own forces), then German reinforcements come up, smash the Russian counter attack force and start heading further into Russia.  At this point, Russia doesn’t really have much in the way of reinforcements to keep the Germans back, while the Germans seem to have more to keep up the push.  However, if England is still in the game, then reinforcements on the Eastern front can really suffer because Germany has to keep getting stuff to keep the Brits at bay.


  • @knp7765:

    @thatonekid:

    and one of the moves ive found comes as a surprise lately is building 1AC, 2 trns like your going to do a SL, then build them in z112 and you can use 3 move(NB) to get to z127  :-D russia ussually leaves this undefended

    That’s a very cool idea.  I forget that you can get to Leningrad from SZ 127.  Don’t you also send a destroyer to deal with the Soviet submarine?
    I think Sealion is very useful if you can pull it off.  It’s especially good for Italy.  If UK defends too much on London, so Germany doesn’t do Sealion, even if UK doesn’t get off of England, they can make things really tough for the Italains in Africa.  However, if England falls, Italy basically has a free hand in Africa, the Med and the Middle East.
    As for the Soviets, I’ve found that a certain pattern happens:  Germany attacks and smashes the Soviet front lines, USSR counterattacks and kills one or two of the front German armies (usually with pretty bad loss to their own forces), then German reinforcements come up, smash the Russian counter attack force and start heading further into Russia.  At this point, Russia doesn’t really have much in the way of reinforcements to keep the Germans back, while the Germans seem to have more to keep up the push.  However, if England is still in the game, then reinforcements on the Eastern front can really suffer because Germany has to keep getting stuff to keep the Brits at bay.

    you dont have to send a des, if you send a battle and cruise that you start with, the sub shouldnt win, or it might even submerge


  • I have played (in the middle of my 3rd game, so take it for what it is).  I have been Axis all 3 games because my friends refuse to let me try being the Allies until they are able to beat me.  I have found that building for Sea Lion turn 1 is great because it has so much versitility but not worth pursuing unless it is feasible to make UK fall turn 2.

    Game 1, succeeded in turn 2 Sea Lion they quit because they thought it was over.

    Game 2, built Sea Lion they bunkered and I went over to Leningrad and was putting the smack down on Russia while using a paper navy (subs and bombers to destroy UK’s navy everytime they tried to build one).  Just out side Moscow when cats destroyed the game but bascially Russia was about to fall and US was dumb and went down to the Medeterranian but lost all land units so just sat there so Italy could build no navy.  Italy built a IC in Egypt so it was pointless.

    Game 3 was a fluke/unwise tactics by allies (keep in mind I am playing with the same people).  I built 3 trans and 1 cruiser and a few artillary turn 1.  Decimated UK navy (my teammate did all rolls with spactacular rolls the whole game so far).  UK brought units from Canada, pulled 2 infantry to Scotland, lost 1 fighter destroying my battleship (so had 7 units to defend capital, I couldn’t believe it was so undefended after I did it once already!).  I took UK round 2 only losing 1 bomber (stupid lucky AA roll on his last roll) and all infantry, had 1 tank and 2 art left.  This game is basically done because my teammate’s rolls were insanely good.  We took burma road country (forgot name) in Jturn 1.  China tried to take it back and my teammated lost all his units but took all of Chinas so we just moved all we had into it even planes and UK is scared to attack it.  China has 5 pieces of land left soon to be 3 and can build nothing basically.  UK pacific is getting 8 ipc a turn and no navy, another spacticular defense of our navy near india were my guy rolled 5 2s in a row decimating attacking force of uk med navy, pacific navy (minus battleship, we took that out turn 1), and all of pacific’s airforce.  We are about to make ANZAK lose its capital because they left it defended only with 2 inf and a carrier outside while I have 1 inf 1 art and a big portion of my navy in attacking distance (2 carriers with 2 planes and to tac).  This is all before round 3!


  • Excellent recap oly.  Sounds like your opponents either need to play Axis(easier win) or they might want to try playing past the time they think they’ve lost.  The fall of London does not doom the Allies.  It is interesting none of your games have gone past round 3….

    Tell them next time you’re not interested in playing unless they commit to 5+ rounds.  Even if Eus falls, play through the first 5 rounds.

    Also, a page or 2 back we had a long (10+ page thread) on the proper ways to defend against Sealion.  Its a lot of reading but will make your opponents see that London is not the end of the game, merely the beginning.


  • After the first game I explained to them how it wasn’t over based on comments on this site.  The second game was actually on to round 5 before my parents cats (game set up at their home for more room) found the game and decided to “play” with the pieces.  This game is still on but I do not think they will want to continue playing once ANZAK falls, China will only have 3 terriotories left netting 1 inf per turn, UK pacific taking in 8 without much hope of attacking japan again for 2 turns (we are about to destroy the only force they have near us).  China will be absorbed soon, Uk pacific soon after I am saying with only 2 super powers really left they dont have much hope.

    I think I have developed some good strategies against Sea Lion/some strategies for the Allies that I wanted to try but they didnt let me play as the Allies.  I kept trying to explain to them that they need to basically try to focus thier efforts on a big turn 4 once the other allies get in and to basically survive until then but I don’t think they understand how to fully do that.  IE they had a decent start by pulling the russian bs on territory west to slow my attack on leningrad and would have been on to making me work if they bunkered up in UK but instead they left it wide open.  I was honestly astounded at it because it seems like such a foolish move oh well once we finish this game hopefully they will let me finally be the allies.


  • We have been having a lot of trouble with Italy too… Then we stumbled on a brilliant move. In G1 send 2 ftrs from West Germany to the SZ with the french and british cruisers, for 1 movement point, then Non Combat Move them another 4 back to Southern Italy to scramble with the Italian ftr when the british attack, the additional 2 ftrs make a big deterrent for any attack on the fleet.

    For a few games we had the Italians run rampant with 40 IPC economies, however this was short lived as the british came up with a counter that is basically a small factory UK1 with all their fighters heading over from india via an attack on Iraq (with indian tranny and troops) and landing in syria, then moving to egypt UK 2. Then they build 3 ftrs UK2 to defend cairo for good and from there can actually flat out defeat Italy from the med since its economy never got a chance to take off…  (This is usually combined with a KIF heavy US move to the med)

    That strat worked for 2 games as SL was not viable in either for some reason or another… But I finally defeated it last game with a successful SL, but Italy was still blunted by the manouvre and left relatively useless.


  • @ZehKaiser:

    We have been having a lot of trouble with Italy too… Then we stumbled on a brilliant move. In G1 send 2 ftrs from West Germany to the SZ with the french and british cruisers, for 1 movement point, then Non Combat Move them another 4 back to Southern Italy to scramble with the Italian ftr when the british attack, the additional 2 ftrs make a big deterrent for any attack on the fleet.

    For a few games we had the Italians run rampant with 40 IPC economies, however this was short lived as the british came up with a counter that is basically a small factory UK1 with all their fighters heading over from india via an attack on Iraq (with indian tranny and troops) and landing in syria, then moving to egypt UK 2. Then they build 3 ftrs UK2 to defend cairo for good and from there can actually flat out defeat Italy from the med since its economy never got a chance to take off…  (This is usually combined with a KIF heavy US move to the med)

    That strat worked for 2 games as SL was not viable in either for some reason or another… But I finally defeated it last game with a successful SL, but Italy was still blunted by the manouvre and left relatively useless.

    sorry to burst yout bubble, but taranto (killing italian 2 transports) is still easily done, even with 2 extra german fighters.


  • Easily done if you don’t mind losing UK.  Thats the beauty of the 2 trn 1 cv build G1.  If UK doesn’t send all assets to UK(including Med ships and aircraft) then Germany will be able to invade G3 at the latest.


  • @Frontovik:

    sorry to burst yout bubble, but taranto (killing italian 2 transports) is still easily done, even with 2 extra german fighters.

    Lol no bubble bursted… I know the odds… I certainly wouldn’t say “easily” and after that you still have half your fleet and the UK likely has little left to stop it, I welcome that attack. If nothing else it helps clear some pieces off the board, I never like when players start stacking up and playing ultra conservatively, makes the game really drag out…

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    I have attempted sea lion 7 times and have failed only once. 4 times I succeeded, my opponent knew it was comming. Everytime after sealion, the Russians get brave and move towards Berlin (which is exactly what I want) therefore, I can dwindle the Russian forces in a war of attrition right next to my factory, and without chasing them all over the map I get defense odds with my infantry.


  • My biggest problem with Sea Lion is that I still need success in Russia, generally two additional VCs.  London just isnt worth it to me, compared to Moscow.  With a G2 push into Russia, I can capture Leningrad and Stalingrad generally every game, and it just comes down to the tossup battle(s) for Moscow, and hoping that Italy has had some success in Egypt.  I think a worst case scenario would be a successful capture of all three Russian VCs but a stalled Italian operation in Africa, forcing Germany to hold all of Europe and also find a way to capture Cairo against India/USA/London.

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    @shadowguidex:

    My biggest problem with Sea Lion is that I still need success in Russia, generally two additional VCs.  London just isnt worth it to me, compared to Moscow.  With a G2 push into Russia, I can capture Leningrad and Stalingrad generally every game, and it just comes down to the tossup battle(s) for Moscow, and hoping that Italy has had some success in Egypt.  I think a worst case scenario would be a successful capture of all three Russian VCs but a stalled Italian operation in Africa, forcing Germany to hold all of Europe and also find a way to capture Cairo against India/USA/London.

    Before you can get to Moscow, an unchecked Allied effort in the west will take back Paris.

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