Can USA claim back London, and how long does it take, and is it worth it?

  • Customizer

    I’m in my second game ever of Global, and judging from how things have gone so far in both my games, it really looks like it is downright impossible to take back London if Germany is doing a decent job of playing well.

    Simple example:
    1. assume all players are competent
    2. assume that Axis is getting slightly better dice than Allies, but nothing drastic
    3. assume Germany takes London G3 or G4

    Now, in order to keep London, Germany doesn’t even need to put units on it at all.  All Germany has to do is keep their transports Always in range of hitting London, and always keep or buy enough land troops each turn to be able to land and take it back if USA lands on it.

    Then, to prevent the USA from taking it, just buy submarines every round.
    Subs are 2 attack for 6 PUs.
    Add in a minor fleet, and some air.

    Italys has a few air units they can keep in range, so that means the USA can never block Germany completely.

    And basically, USA has to spending double what Germany is spending to take London.  (cus the USA needs destroyers, carriers, air, and the transports and land units.  While all Germany needs is Subs and some air.)

    so…. what gives?

    what is the optimal approach to getting london back?

    what is the most flexible approach that can still get london back, but can be converted into something else (like convoying Italy, for example) if you need to change plans on the fly?

  • TripleA

    It is not impossible, I had 30% odds of defending my naval. Seth had 30% to take london in our last game.

    I mean as usa you can’t really predict if london will be held with infantry/fighters or if germany will go the counter attack approach… not until the round after he has taken london do you find out (he left his units there or he bought mroe naval).

    so as usa, it is usually carrier fighter mix since that can attack land and defend in the water. some dd and sub, transports to get brazil etc.

    It is not a fullproof science. Plus if japan is not going to DOW, you can’t stop germany from doing what he does.

    Also it is hilarious when usa puts all that chedder in the atlantic and japan does DOW and germany just shuffles infantry to novgorod. Westgermany moves to germany and blam shazam. full throttle barb.

    The axis dictate how the game progresses. Unlike aa50 where you can do a berlin or bust strategy in almost any situation with the allies, the allies are fairly limited in their capabilities.

    Hence why I like playing Japan. I do what I want, when I want, and how I want.

  • Customizer


    It is not impossible, I had 30% odds of defending my naval.
    Also mind you, germany bought naval and did not kick russia out of romania for awhile, which is fine.

    this is nothing against you, i just feel that either this particular strategy is bad (or someone will give us an idea for a better strategy for taking london back), meaning that the allies should focus on other things than london, OR the game is not balanced.

    in our game, if japan was more experienced, india and china would both be dead by now, since USA has invested almost zero in the pacific.

  • TripleA

    I was fine with 30%, but that was not fine by you. I mean it happens sometimes you know.

    Yeah you don’t have to invest much in the atlantic even after london goes.

    I probably should have bought couple carriers one round before then get fighters the next to fly in. so I could have had more naval there in the spot I needed it, I usually do that, but I didn’t. It is fine.

    don’t worry about it. Was it a big mistake, yeah probably, but germany might have seen it ahead of time and ended up getting more naval in advance.
    I take that back, I might have gotten blocked from london by a single destoyer, if I couldn’t hold the spot next to london seazone.

    Best thing you could have done different was probably keep your russian sub alive. that usually forces germany to block usa from attacks with more than a destroyer or back off, since his naval is not good on defense, he would need enough italians on west germany to take back denmark… which is hard to do considering usa is one swing away from going for italy instead.

    So yeah you forgot to move your sub and you paid the price. 😛

    hell your sub had an exact 1% chance to sink damaged bb and fesh carrier and 11 transport. You could have took the easy 1% at the cost of 6 ipc, massive pay out 1% lotto roll.

    you was just like, “nah dawg, ima convoy for a dolla, screw the lotto.” I’d do that attack all day, 1 in 100 games, instant win, 3 in 100 games scored a carrier kill. I’d buy that for a dollar.  Somewhere around 2 ipc pot odds, without calculating implied equity you can say running the sub away was a better option. keeping the sub there to just die to a destroyer later, 1/6 to hit a sub, 1 dolla + sub convoy average up to 3 total.

    Point is it was a reasonable gamble to attack and go for the lotto or to run the sub away that turn and not overstay your welcome. The sub can defend usa or kill a blocker for him. This is the best bet you can get. Though I wouldn’t blame someone for trying to hit the lotto with a single sub, the implied equity is huge.

    Little mistakes have a big impact, just how it is. I am not going to do the math on the implied equity ie. stranded german men on scotland etc compared to sub still alive as a potential blocker killer.
    Listen this is a dice game, there is lots of math that goes into it, and it is more than just % to win and % to lose for each battle. You have to factor in the cost and payout, as well as equity.

    Also since you aren’t gambling with your life savings at a poker table, you can also just do it for the fun of it. If people didn’t go to vegas to have fun, vegas would be bankrupt.

    This is a game, have fun. The axis get to pick and choose what spots they are in, the allies just have to make the best of it.

    I got lemons and I am making lemonade.

    It is not so easy being the allies eh veqryn? Can’t just screw around with Japan, no rush, USA just put more stuff in the atlantic, I guess I don’t have to do anything then. ooo I lost my fleet, oh well, back in it.

  • TripleA

    Don’t worry I am going to have fun. I am hoping you have fun too.

    I bet it is real traumatizing watching me play, now you know how I felt when I was waiting for you to win with Japan last game.

  • Customizer

    the post isn’t just about our one little game cow,

    i want to know what the best strategies are for taking back london

    and/or debate the value of taking it back when germany can easily hold off the USA at half the cost

  • TripleA

    Well, you know, the transports are a 1 way ticket, they did their job once they get back london.

    I don’t usually buy anything for the atlantic otherwise. I win or lose the game in the pacific. If I don’t solve pacific problems before russia falls, then I lose, that is how I race for victory. Because when russia is gone, usa has to defend london/egypt.  If Japan is not solved, then I lost.

    I am not looking to sit around for 10 hours to reach a conclusion.

    This game, I actually did stuff in the atlantic with usa and so far it sucks. lol.

  • TripleA

    There is only russia, usa, germany, and italy. some remnant uk forces still around… not rocket science here. pretty easy to figure out.

    The forum will not provide you with an answer you can’t come up with. Especially global, it is the least played axis and allies game to print.

    If you look at the forum, it is littered mostly with rules questions and more rules questions. The longest FAQ ever!

  • 2019 2018 2017 '16

    Your London defense is more expensive than it has to be.  The German air power could be staged out of Paris or West Germany, a few transports and infantry in the Baltic doing double duty, and then six to twelve artillery and infantry lurking in Scotland to fish for salmon and recover London if needed.  So the size of the American counterattack depends on the need to defend London against twelve to eighteen infantry and artillery plus aircraft.  Ten transports to carry 20 land units plus an appropriate large naval escort.  May as well crush Italy at that point.  You might save a few transports by having the UK follow up to land units but usually there’s not much UK navy left after Sea Lion.

  • Liberating London makes about as much sense as liberating France, and for the same reasons.  Italy is a better target.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    The trick is just to acknowledge and accept loss.

    It was ALL Germany could do to stop the Americans from recapturing London.  They built all of 2 ground units over 2 turns, whilst trying to organize and defend themselves.

    Just go in hot, kill as many germans as you can, organize transport loads from Western Canada to land in London, and just land their ANYWAYS.

    So what if the germans get $20 for one turn,  that’s ALL of their ground forces, that they haven’t/can’t replace being used, and even less in Europe against the Russian advance AGAIN.

    Accept that you’re going to lose some edge, and just do the attacks anyways.  You can also use british fighters in Gibraltar, to come up and recap london.  (Or protect from the -poison pill- bombing of Gibraltar, which has screwed you all game).

  • If done right you can punish Germany by going sealion with a massive US airstrike on German fleet in z110 and land in Eire (or scotland). When you killed the fleet taking London back should be doable with units from canada and bombers/fighters from Eire. Im not saying it works every time… but even if you just force germany to buy a carrier or two from Normandy factory its worth it.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    In the game in question… I very carefully captured Eire and Scotland as the germans. 🙂

    You guys almost had me though… one more round of building up, OR a landing in Spain + subsequent NB, and I would have probably been done.

    You’re fleet was just becoming too much to handle.  And the Russians were all over me as it was… it would have bought them another turn.

  • @Gargantua:

    the -poison pill- bombing of Gibraltar

    That move really sucks for the allies post-sealion.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Cow was talking alot of smack until it happend… I think he found it incredibly deflating.

  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 '13 Moderator

    Tell him alcohol is legal and so much more socially acceptable.
    Never done drugs. Never will.

  • TripleA

    it is fine if germany doesn’t want to give up london, I probably should have taken the medit fleet to the pacific and strait up race to see if I can clear pacific before the europe win. ah we will see. close game income wise, allies just haven’t commited their unit advantage yet. global is just slow like that, but things will heat up sooner or later. Once allies fall behind on income, then that is it, full steam ahead, got to do it or be in OTKG’s position, which is totally screwed lol. I am sure after a round or two, someone will commit to an all in.

    Germany has about the same amount of ships as japan, which is super funny to think about.

    Fantasy football is upon us, so you won’t see too much from me, just post n go.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Yea Germany and japan do have a similar amount of ships and planes.

    But the only allies with ANY navy (save 2 anzac subs and a trn) are the americans 50% of which is submarines (20 I think?).

    Definetly a solid game.  But you’re going to get beat!

  • TripleA

    This is a very interesting year as far as fantasy picks goes.

    Last year I had peyton manning as my 1st round pick and I got screwed so hard.

    We might count passing attempts this year… in which case I want to a pick a QB off the bat, which is why I hate counting plays that never amounted to anything. Was leaning toward an RB pick. If I am going with a QB I am basically gambling on getting Peyton Hillis as a 6th or 7th rounder. Ah, we will see.

    Yeah, maybe we’ll get beat. Was hoping for an AA gun hit on last japan’s attack of kweichow, but at least my sub killed his sub and tilted his carrier sinking the fighters. Made up for my caroline fleet loss right there.  I was a 40% dog on carolines, but a win or draw would have been big for us and this result was not too bad, mostly because I picked up good kills with my sub.

    I probably should have taken that med fleet to the pacific, that would have been more exciting. I basically kept it there to a) convoy b) reclaim london c) pacific.  It has to do one of those things eventually. There is no secret behind it lol.

  • '16 '15 '10

    To a certain extent, if Germany goes for it on G3 and they get lucky then that’s a very hard situation for Allies to come back from.  But it’s also a risky play for Germany.

    Looking at the file of the game with Gargantua (I assume that’s what’s being referred to) I see some mistakes in the way Allies were played.  First off, there’s no Allied bid.  No full scramble G1 in 110, despite a high risk G1.  On UK1, better to buy 9 inf then 6 inf fig.  While the move to 92 on UK1 is understandable and could have broken your way with different dice…there’s also the factor that moving planes away from UK allows Germany to build nothing but transports on G2 and land some stuff in Scotland.  Probably better to build a Gib airbase in that scenario because then you’d have some more fleet to contest the Sea Lion.  With the French fleet taken out, hitting that fleet in 92 is (while high-risk) pretty much a no-brainer for Italy if Germany wants to Sea Lion. Also, not hitting 111 UK1 was a mistake because taking out that bb might have forced Germany to buy a dd G2.

    Some weird edits on Turn 1 worked to the advantage of Axis.  On Italy 1 2 planes were edited away from UK into the Med, making Sea Lion more tempting. Then on G2, there’s an edit allowing Germany to land stuff in Scotland/Ireland.

    Declaring on Japan UK2 is something I hesitate to criticize, but in this case it was possibly an error.  Hard to say for certain.

    As Cow mentioned having the russian sub in position would have helped.

    Bombing Gib’s airbase is indeed a clever twist on Sea Lion–will have to remember that one.

    Even if Allies did everything I’m suggesting, there’s a good chance Germany takes London on G4 anyway.  But if Germany takes London with less men AND USA is in position to retake London on USA3 (or USA4/usa5, it’s not too late then) then Germany’s victory is anything but certain.

    So overall I think there were enough Allied errors that I wouldn’t draw major conclusions about game balance from this one.  Germany definitely has a good shot at London G3 and a less risky shot at London G4, but really determined Allied play ought to make it hard for Germany to win the game this way.

  • TripleA

    well the edits was to have the same results as before. basically I did redo of every move then edited in the original results to update it to the new triple a map.

    sz110, I totally missed round1 no hits. Yeah I could have hit the bb drop the bomber maybe.

  • '16 '15 '10


    And basically, USA has to spending double what Germany is spending to take London.  (cus the USA needs destroyers, carriers, air, and the transports and land units.  While all Germany needs is Subs and some air.)

    so…. what gives?

    what is the optimal approach to getting london back?

    what is the most flexible approach that can still get london back, but can be converted into something else (like convoying Italy, for example) if you need to change plans on the fly?

    The approach USA took in the game would have worked if USA had more navy assembled in the Atlantic in the 4th round.

    I think the key is to play tight enough that Germany has to sacrifice some of their air to take London.  They shouldn’t be able to take London with a whole lot left over.  And to pressure with Russia with enough force that Germany can’t afford the naval expenditures necessary to hold 110.

    If Japan isn’t declaring on J2-J3 USA can put alot of navy into the Atlantic still.  A risky play but potentially fruitful is move the units you bought USA1 in sz10 over to sz89 following the G2 transport buy.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Germany were getting diced hard G1, Sz110 balanced it back to neutral.

    Why the allies ONLY scrambled 1 french fighter there is beyond me… And it’s not like the axis hasn’t made their own fair share of mistakes.

    there’s no Allied bid

    I disagree with the bid comments.  It’s not a mistake, it’s what both parties agree to going in.

    The allies biggest mistake was abandoning their pressure on London when they did.

  • TripleA

    Except doing so meant, I’d give italy egypt, get rolled by japan and be totally out of the game, all for the sake of london.

    I mean I bet I could have an easier time taking japan than reclaiming london at that rate lol.

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