• So you’re saying that extra 60-90 IPC’s denied the Allies justifies Sealion?  Or are you just disputing one of my supporting points?

    I mean when you factor the 63 pts spend on transports which don’t have much use afterward, the 16 for the CV for which you also have very little use, and whatever casualties you suffer from the actual invasion it’s safe to say you just about break even for the whole operation, possibly with 15-20 total IPC swing to the Axis.  Do you feel this is more profitable a strategy for Germany to pursue early game rather than focusing on Russia?


  • @chompers:

    So you’re saying that extra 60-90 IPC’s denied the Allies justifies Sealion?  Or are you just disputing one of my supporting points?

    I mean when you factor the 63 pts spend on transports which don’t have much use afterward, the 16 for the CV for which you also have very little use, and whatever casualties you suffer from the actual invasion it’s safe to say you just about break even for the whole operation, possibly with 15-20 total IPC swing to the Axis.  Do you feel this is more profitable a strategy for Germany to pursue early game rather than focusing on Russia?

    Well, the 9 Tr can be used against russia


  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    Well, the 9 Tr can be used against russia

    True, however a medium sized Russian stack sitting in Belarus can make it pretty hard for you to do more than snatch Leningrad for a turn on G5.  The Russian will be able to get away with splitting his stack between Belarus and Bryansk since the German army is smaller than his own by virtue of Sea Lion.

  • Customizer

    So you’re saying that extra 60-90 IPC’s denied the Allies justifies Sealion?  Or are you just disputing one of my supporting points?

    Not disputing - just pointing out a fact.  Sooner or later, Germany will be fighting those units that UK builds UK 1 and 2 anyway - likely in France.  To say that killing those units is a waste … well I don’t see it that way.  The only argument I would accept is that the timing is off.

    If you are ONLY talking $ then:

    Germany - likely casualties and $ spent:
    11 inf, 4 art, 4 tanks, 10 TTs, 1 CV, 1 fht

    $169

    UK
    20 inf, 1 tank, 3 fht, 1 tac
    $107 + $28 captured = $135

    • let’s say UK held for 3 turns for an average of $25 per turn of lost income

    $135 + $75 = $210

    True, however a medium sized Russian stack sitting in Belarus can make it pretty hard for you to do more than snatch Leningrad for a turn on G5.  The Russian will be able to get away with splitting his stack between Belarus and Bryansk since the German army is smaller than his own by virtue of Sea Lion.

    I can land with 22 units on either Nenetsia, Archangel, Leningrad, Baltic States etc…

    Or just buy lots of inf and get them up to the front 1  - 2 turns sooner than walking them.  That can make up for not having bought on the Russian front, too.

    Do you feel this is more profitable a strategy for Germany to pursue early game rather than focusing on Russia?

    I haven’t fleshed out post Sealion yet, so I can’t say.  It is not a game ender as the India Crush.  And in the linked game, I think the Allies have the advantage anyway.

    I do the game was not designed to allow such a high probability of Sealion - and I think there is something screwed up if I just lost the game by conquring UK - its like saying that taking Italy out loses you the game.


  • I agree about your point on the timing, hence the root of my question being was the G3 Sealion justifiable.  I think accomplishing it on G2 is a win-win for Germany.

    It bears worth noting that anywhere you drop that 22 unit stack is either open to counterattack from a Russian Belarus stack that should be large enough to wipe any combination those transports can drop off in a turn or has to bypass that stack to get anywhere valuable.  Using the TRN fleet to move troops to the front faster is undeniably useful, but whether you can take advantage of this for more than one or two turns is questionable in the face of a decent number of US bombers.

    I dunno, I guess I should rephrase my original statement a bit.  I don’t necessarily think a G3 Sealion commitment will outright lose you the game as Axis.  I’m more inclined to say it doesn’t put you in as good a position as a more Russia-centered approach.


  • Post Sealion, why does Germany have to stay in the UK and try and keep it?

    G4…empty the UK and head for Russia with transports and leftover Sealion stuff.

    Germany did much damage to UK (stole money, prevented buys). Say, “that’s good enough for now, I can’t afford to stay here” and turn it’s attention to the Russia problem.

    “And if you act up again UK, Germany will take you over her knee and spank you again!”


  • True, which is why both games the German player abandoned UK after taking it.  I think it’s absolutely a losing proposition to continue dumping points into the UK to hold it after taking it.  They barely have enough IPCs to cover all their continental shores, let alone lock down the UK in addition.


  • In our G3 Sealion game, the Allies resigned.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20303.585


  • I love the post-Sealion Nenetsia dump because it makes the Russians scramble to defend their capital and takes pressure off of Berlin. Germany can follow it up with a southern thrust because the Russians won’t be as concerned with defending that area.

    Another possibility is diving into the Mediterranean on turn 4. You have to be sure that whatever’s there isn’t going to fall to attacks from American submarines and/or carrier-based planes that turn, but if you survive then you’ve gotten away and can start wreaking havoc. Make sure the Italians have all their business taken care of, reinforce Gibraltar, or push through to India and give Japan a hand. Make sure to leave 1 land unit in Egypt for the bonus.


  • If the med is clear you could also dump it into Africa to make sure its taken by the axis…just a thought haven’t played the axis yet in global though.

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