S02 - Gamerman01 (axis) vs. DutchmanD (allies +13)

[dutchmand]

Jordan taken with 1 inf, 1 art, 1 arm

z5
A:
Rolls: 1@2 1@3 1@4; Total Hits: 21@2: (2)1@3: (6)1@4: (2)

D:
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (1)

[dutchmand]

z5 cwol

NWE taken by walk-in
z34 cleared

NonCom
ftr z34 > z48
4 ftrs Balk > z14
aa gun Egypt > Jordan
12 inf, aa gun Bst > Kar
2 inf Bst > England, end z7
3 art, 3 inf Bst > z5
2 ftr Moscow > Lib
2 ftrs England > Lib
AC z5 > z7

Mobilization
3 tnpz z7
3 inf England

Collect $38+1
has $39

11duk.AAM

[gamerman01]

I’m pretty sure that’s illegal to move ground units to Z5 after sinking the destroyer.
You can’t load anything from Baltic States onto transports in Z5 because they were there for the combat against the destroyer.
I’ve only started reviewing your move - just getting this out there ASAP for you to consider.

[gamerman01]

For a tournament champion you’re pretty rusty on the rules.  You were supposed to move the aircraft carrier out of Z5 in the combat move phase if you wanted to move it to 7.  You did not declare what you were doing with that carrier during the combat move phase, but waited until all dice were rolled.  This conflicts with the rules.

[gamerman01]

You also cannot transport units from Baltic States to England.

Well, your turn is pretty messed up, then.  I’ll wait for you to fix it, within the confines of the rules.  You can’t change any combat movement, but you will have to change your noncombat to make it legal.  Basically none of the ground units on Baltic States can be transported or even board transports because the transports were considered participants in the Z5 battle.  Don’t worry about the illegal carrier move - I just mentioned it for your future benefit.

I guess I have to wait and can’t do Italy until you’re legal.  Figured something like this would happen, but there was no sense warning you before the turn - I’d rather have you screw it up if you didn’t know the rules.

[gamerman01]

One more thing -

You have 4 transports in Z7 (one moved legally during a combat move on NWE).
You have 4 transports in Z5 (all 4 are frozen since they were not moved away from Z5 in a combat move).

Here’s the map I have.  You have 5 infantry and 3 artillery on Baltic States that you can either leave there, move to Karelia, or move to Bel.

Like I said, change whatever noncombat moves you want, but I don’t think you can expect to change any combat moves or purchases since you’ve rolled a bunch of (fortunate  :-P) combat dice.

[gamerman01]

map

11duk.AAM

[gamerman01]

@gamerman01:

You have 4 transports in Z7 (one moved legally during a combat move on NWE).
You have 4 transports in Z5 (all 4 are frozen since they were not moved away from Z5 in a combat move).

OK, this morning I realize it’s inconsistent to allow the carrier to move but not the transport, since if you wanted to move them both to Z7 you had to move them both during the combat movement phase.

For this particular issue (transport and carrier to 7) I’m going to consult with a moderator for advice on a fair way to resolve.  Unless, of course, you agree that you should leave everything in Z5 which I doubt you will want to do.

[gamerman01]

Then again, it is not inconsistent to allow the carrier move but not the transport.

You didn’t roll the carrier (while it was technically present in Z5) which made it clear of your intent to move it, even though you didn’t move it as the rules require.

However, the issue of the transport move to Z5 is a different matter, because it can’t roll dice anyway.

Whenever you see this stuff, please reply with your opinions and position, and we will need a moderator’s help to sort this out.  (Would have been nice if you followed the rules properly, and we could have avoided all this confusion)

See page 14 of the rulebook “Sea Units Starting in Hostile Sea Zones”.  You have 4 options for your units in Z5 at the start of your turn, as clearly delineated in the rules.  The movements you made of the carrier, the transport, and then loading units on transports in Z5 were all illegal in light of the rules on page 14.  (Not the transport that took NWE - that is perfectly legal, as seen in bullet point #2 on page 14)

[dutchmand]

Looking at it….

[gamerman01]

@DutchmanD:

Looking at it….

OK, great, thanks for posting.

Sorry about all the info all at once - you’re kind of reading my thought processes, I guess.
If you don’t like all of my conclusions, just post your thoughts and counteroffer, and we’ll go from there.  If we can’t agree on a common resolution, then we’ll have to have a moderator weigh in.  But the rules on page 14 are what govern this situation, I believe.

[dutchmand]

The AC move should have been stated during Combat Movement phase, as it did not fire. The battle in z5 was a forgone conclusion with the attacker winning 5,000 out of 5,000. It’s presence had no bering on the combat.

The tnps are stuck where they are I guess. The previously picked-up units will go to Kar with the rest of the bunch.  The non-com tnp that went to z7 will stay in z5 too.

We can run it by a moderator if this is not acceptable.

11duk.AAM

[gamerman01]

@DutchmanD:

The AC move should have been stated during Combat Movement phase, as it did not fire. The battle in z5 was a forgone conclusion with the attacker winning 5,000 out of 5,000. It’s presence had no bering on the combat.

The tnps are stuck where they are I guess. The previously picked-up units will go to Kar with the rest of the bunch.  The non-com tnp that went to z7 will stay in z5 too.

We can run it by a moderator if this is not acceptable.

No, that is precisely what I meant.  Thanks for the prompt correction - I can proceed with Italy then.

[gamerman01]

I11 with 17, buy 4 INF, ART (save 1)

Combat moves -
Blk - 2 INF (Ita) 2 ARM (Bul) INF (Ger)
NWE - 2 INF (Fra)

BlkRolls: 3@1 2@3; Total Hits: 23@1: (4, 1, 1)2@3: (6, 5)Rolls: 1@3; Total Hits: 01@3: (6)

[dutchmand]

Sorry, didn’t look back to see your latest proposed solution.

[gamerman01]

Gonna be your turn again real soon!

[gamerman01]

NWE
Brave Italians will retreat immediately if hit once
Rolls: 2@1; Total Hits: 02@1: (3, 5)Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (5)
NWE2Rolls: 2@1; Total Hits: 02@1: (5, 5)Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (3)
NWE3Rolls: 2@1; Total Hits: 02@1: (4, 5)Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (6)

[gamerman01]

NWE4Rolls: 2@1; Total Hits: 02@1: (2, 3)Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)
NWE5Rolls: 2@1; Total Hits: 02@1: (2, 4)Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)
NWE6Rolls: 2@1; Total Hits: 12@1: (5, 1)Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (6)

[gamerman01]

1 INF retreats to France

Ger - 2 INF (Fra)
Bul - INF (EPl)
Per - 4 INF, 2 ARM (Cau) ARM (Ukr)

Collect 17, 18 on hand

I think I was only counting on 2 fighters being able to hit Blk - did not consider US carrier during G11.  And then the dice amplified the damage, after you properly exploited the opportunity.  wp

11Eita.AAM

[dutchmand]

posting today…