Anti-Aircraft guns: Liberated or Captured

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Look at the tournament rules and the league rules.  The Moderators have all adopted LHTR as the official rule set for games here and when you start a game here, it is the assumed rule set. (Otherwise you’d have Germany winning in Round 1 in a majority of games due to broken out of the box rules.)

    As for any other post naming it official, all I can say is 2007 league rules, 2008 league rules, 2008 tournament rules and all the 2007 and 2006 tournament rules.  It’s as official as you can get.

    As I said, you may as well burn your copy of the box rules, no one uses them anymore.


  • Then for any debates concerning tournament threads at this site, you may be right.

    But this is the AA Revised forum, not the tournament forum.  Many people find this forum after opening up the box.  Box rules are the game’s starting point, so deviations from that need to be mentioned.  Deviations like LHTR.

    If all you have are vague references to tournament topics, that is not very compelling and I won’t be posting under assumed LHTR any time soon.  I’ll stick with the logical assumption of box rules.

    Thanks anyway.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Mazer:

    Then for any debates concerning tournament threads at this site, you may be right.

    But this is the AA Revised forum, not the tournament forum.  Many people find this forum after opening up the box.  Box rules are the game’s starting point, so deviations from that need to be mentioned.  Deviations like LHTR.

    If all you have are vague references to tournament topics, that is not very compelling and I won’t be posting under assumed LHTR any time soon.  I’ll stick with the logical assumption of box rules.

    Thanks anyway.

    Okay, then everything is moot.  Germany gets Long Range Fighters on G1 and takes England that same round.  Game over.


  • OK you two, knock it off.

    That could have been handled MUCH more civilly than it was.

    There was no reason to get accusatory or to try to belittle each other.  A simple “In LHTR yes, in OOB no” would have been sufficient to replace the last page of posts.

    Only warning for you both to cool it down a bit.


  • Okay, then everything is moot.  Germany gets Long Range Fighters on G1 and takes England that same round.  Game over.

    You are absolutely correct if we were talking about tech, Jen.  Now you are starting to understand how the forum should work.

    That’s why the very next sentence in a thread on tech would be, “of course every rule set fixes this, so you won’t see it in actual play much”.  The common starting point is the box rules, and then you list the rule change you need to fix the problem.

    You tried to list the fix first and ignored the common starting point of the box rules.  You also assumed that the fix was LHTR, which is also suspect.

    Thanks


  • @ncscswitch:

    There was no reason to get accusatory or to try to belittle each other.  A simple “In LHTR yes, in OOB no” would have been sufficient to replace the last page of posts.

    But Switch, how could I inflame my carpal tunnel syndrome without such long, enlightening posts?

    :-D

    Ok.  Consider it cooled.

    Peace

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    quote author=ncscswitch link=topic=6992.msg108598#msg108598 date=1151365731

    quote author=ncscswitch link=topic=6992.msg109220#msg109220 date=1151627127

    quote author=ncscswitch link=topic=6992.msg208227#msg208227 date=1184198429

    quote author=ncscswitch link=topic=6992.msg212163#msg212163 date=1185480150

    quote author=ncscswitch link=topic=6992.msg214351#msg214351 date=1186008109

    quote author=DarthMaximus link=topic=10849.msg261215#msg261215 date=1199296118

    quote author=ncscswitch link=topic=10816.msg259707#msg259707 date=1198596228

    So yes, for the 1 or 2 people still playing OOB rules, you have to remember who owned what AA Gun at all times throughout the game.  However, it’s pretty established that the only valid rule set for games here (and it’s locked down in FoE and AAMC I believe for sure) is LHTR and that’s what we look too when it comes to a rule question.

    Mainly because you can do things like taken England on Round 1 with Germany then have 24 tanks driving on Moscow on Germany 2.

    Or because Super Fortresses + SBR = 16 IPC damage to Germany every round, no retaliation. (2 Bombers, of course, but who isn’t going to shell out 15 IPC to do 16 IPC dmg a round to Germany!?!?!?)  Rational is because the wording in OOB states you do the damage rolled or the amount of the land value whichever is HIGHER.

    These two are just a couple of the many examples why no one talks about the manual that comes in the box anymore.  It’s as if it does not exist.  Any reference to the manual from the box should always be preceded with the disclaimer that this is a rule FROM THE BOX, not from an established rule set that the majority of players use.

    I understand you work only with CSub really, and your vision is colored by the little yellow sheet of fixes that CSUB uses as a base.  We don’t have that sheet.

    I suggest, instead of trying to conform us to your way, you try to conform to our way.  it’ll be easier to change 1 person, then, what is it now, Switch, 16,000 people?


  • @Mazer:

    But this is the AA Revised forum, not the tournament forum.  Many people find this forum after opening up the box.  Box rules are the game’s starting point, so deviations from that need to be mentioned.  Deviations like LHTR.

    I agree!  LHTR players are a buncha deviants.  :wink:  No, seriously.  :wink:

    I keep saying posts should be directed to Out of the Box players with a nod towards FAQ and LHTR in this forum.  You know who you are, heretics!  :x

    Aw . . . don’t look at me like that . . . I still love u.  :-D


  • You’re a crazy mofo paintbrush…always entertaining to read your…“posts.” I think you’re more like general in teh jenf0rces than a major!


  • This has got to be THE most UNFAIR situation EVER!

    Look, currently I’m +7/-5 on Karma for a net of +2, while NewPaintBrush is +34/-61 for a net of -27.

    I am 10 TIMES more obnoxious than he is, but where’s MY respect?

    +2.  It’s insulting.  WHAT’S A BROTHER GOTTA DO???

    I guess I gotta start killing owls.

    Maybe I’ll make me some bald eagle nachos…

    ya rly


  • And you thought I was chatty Mazer? o_O


  • +3 net.  Real original.  Didn’t see that coming.

    S.O.B….


  • :-P
    OK Mazer, I’ll give you a negative Karma for Typing in YELLOW print.
    You could have written anything, there is no way I could read it. :|
      :roll:


  • thats what the “quote” button is for  :wink:


  • Yeah!  Now that’s what I’m talking about!

    Typing in small yellow font is EXACTLY the type of thing that should get you negative karma.

    CHOKE ON IT NPB!

    Back to just +2.


  • :-D
    LOL

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I have some good recipes for Spotted Owl, and fried Squirrel too!

  • Official Q&A

    This sort of debate occurs whenever this question comes up.  The answer is actually fairly simple, and is the same in OOB and LHTR, with one small exception.

    When a territory changes hands, the ownership of any IC and/or AA guns in that territory changes with it.  Whoever gains control of the territory gains control of the IC and/or AA guns IC.  It doesn’t matter who the original owner of the AA gun or IC was.

    The small difference between OOB and LHTR concerns situations where territories have been captured when they would have otherwise been liberated because a capital was under enemy control.  Say Russia and Karelia have been captured by Germany.  If the US captures Karelia, it gains control of the territory because the Soviet capital is enemy-held.  It also gains control of any IC and/or AA guns there, because control of these transfers with control of the territory.  If the US then liberates Russia, control of Karelia (along with any other territories held by allies) reverts to the USSR.  Control of any ICs in these territories also reverts to the USSR.  Under the OOB rules, the USSR would also gain control of any AA guns in these territories.  Under LHTR, the AA guns would remain under the control of the country that captured the territory (the US in Karelia’s case).

    I hope this helps!


  • Kreighund has it correct.


  • Howdy.

    Krieghund, as always, is quite good at laying out the detail.  I always appreciate the effort he puts into attempting to clear up questions.

    His interpretation of LHTR is correct; his interpretation of OOB rules is incorrect.

    I believe he is correct in what was INTENDED to be in the rules, but that ignores what the rules actually say.

    If that is not the case then it will be very easy to quote from the box rules the place that contradicts and clarifies the wording “original owner” found on page 25.

    Not only do the rules state “original owner”, but the FAQ states “original controler”.

    Let’s not confuse what the rule actually says with what we think it should say.

    The rule as written is actually quite simple and quite clear.

    Thanks

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