As you say Romulas, the German High command was all about the Blitzkrieg. And encirclement was very much the key to that doctrine. So, the opportunity to encircle several hundred thousand enemy soldiers was too much to resist. Besides, they must have thought that such a loss to the Soviets would be unrecoverable, and possibly force them to capitulate before winter. I would have had I been there then. Men fight, not cities.
I think that Blitzkrieg is also about encirclement.
I think that blitzkrieg is also about conquering cities.
But the principal character of blitzkrieg is to break the enemy will to combat. Morale factors are the main key of blitzkrieg doctrine.
Encirclement of russian soldier could have shaken russian morale, a more important achievement than the simple number of enemy soldiers out of combat. From a practical point of view the human resources of Red Army have overcame the problem in an easy way.
I think that had Moscow fallen, Russian morale had received a more serious hit.
It is for this reason that I have said that having German the Blitzkrieg as strategic doctrine they had to attempt the conquest Moscow.
Had this achievement caused Russian defeat?
All of us say no, because we see the future of the conflict: four year later Russian troops entering in Berlin. And probably the war had continued also after the fall of Moscow.
But that was the German objective, a morale objective to be achieved with Blitzkrieg strategy.
Men fight if they feel that there is a hope for victory. If the morale of the men is broken they more probably will run away more than try to fight a battle without hope.
I think that Blitzkrieg is also about encirclement.
I think that blitzkrieg is also about conquering cities.But the principal character of blitzkrieg is to break the enemy will to combat. Morale factors are the main key of blitzkrieg doctrine.
Encirclement of russian soldier could have shaken russian morale, a more important achievement than the simple number of enemy soldiers out of combat. From a practical point of view the human resources of Red Army have overcame the problem in an easy way.
I think that had Moscow fallen, Russian morale had received a more serious hit.
It is for this reason that I have said that having German the Blitzkrieg as strategic doctrine they had to attempt the conquest Moscow.Had this achievement caused Russian defeat?
All of us say no, because we see the future of the conflict: four year later Russian troops entering in Berlin. And probably the war had continued also after the fall of Moscow.
But that was the German objective, a morale objective to be achieved with Blitzkrieg strategy.
Men fight if they feel that there is a hope for victory. If the morale of the men is broken they more probably will run away more than try to fight a battle without hope.
unless teir crazy like the 300 spartans. :wink: if the soldiers believe retreated/surrender was unthinkable then they would fight to the death. sorta like the Japanese in WWII.
:-o
Russian soldiers were and still are very dedicated and proud warriors. In WWII, running away was not an option, the NKVD saw to that. Surrender maybe, but not running.
I go back to the Quote from the German soldier that fought on the Eastern Front; “It was too damn big, It got too damn cold, and there was just too damn many of them”.
Don’t mistake these more or less balanced games we play as what was real in those days. Serious supply problems have always plagued armies that have tried to invade Russia. And the more men and machines that you send, the more supplies you’ll need. And Germany and its’ satillites could only produce so much, which was often not enough for what did get sent to Russia.
:roll:
I know that the history is gone as it is gone, and there is not too much to say.
I am only considering the possibilities.
I think that even URSS had some probabilities to lose the war.
Even mighty Achilles had a weak heel! :)
@Crazy:
:-o
Russian soldiers were and still are very dedicated and proud warriors. In WWII, running away was not an option, the NKVD saw to that. Surrender maybe, but not running.
I go back to the Quote from the German soldier that fought on the Eastern Front; “It was too damn big, It got too damn cold, and there was just too damn many of them”.
Don’t mistake these more or less balanced games we play as what was real in those days. Serious supply problems have always plagued armies that have tried to invade Russia. And the more men and machines that you send, the more supplies you’ll need. And Germany and its’ satillites could only produce so much, which was often not enough for what did get sent to Russia.
:roll:
the soviets were hardcore figthers. they russians sent men running into machine guns and mines for recon and clearing the fields. they were crazy fierce.
@Crazy:
:-o
Russian soldiers were and still are very dedicated and proud warriors. In WWII, running away was not an option, the NKVD saw to that. Surrender maybe, but not running.
I go back to the Quote from the German soldier that fought on the Eastern Front; “It was too damn big, It got too damn cold, and there was just too damn many of them”.
Don’t mistake these more or less balanced games we play as what was real in those days. Serious supply problems have always plagued armies that have tried to invade Russia. And the more men and machines that you send, the more supplies you’ll need. And Germany and its’ satillites could only produce so much, which was often not enough for what did get sent to Russia.
:roll:the soviets were hardcore figthers. they russians sent men running into machine guns and mines for recon and clearing the fields. they were crazy fierce.
i think you mean they were suicidal idiots
@AJ:
@Crazy:
:-o
Russian soldiers were and still are very dedicated and proud warriors. In WWII, running away was not an option, the NKVD saw to that. Surrender maybe, but not running.
I go back to the Quote from the German soldier that fought on the Eastern Front; “It was too damn big, It got too damn cold, and there was just too damn many of them”.
Don’t mistake these more or less balanced games we play as what was real in those days. Serious supply problems have always plagued armies that have tried to invade Russia. And the more men and machines that you send, the more supplies you’ll need. And Germany and its’ satillites could only produce so much, which was often not enough for what did get sent to Russia.
:roll:the soviets were hardcore figthers. they russians sent men running into machine guns and mines for recon and clearing the fields. they were crazy fierce.
i think you mean they were suicidal idiots
war is the willingness of men to die for the honor, ideals and people of the country.
war is all about death and accepting the fact you might die for the greater good. ( or what you believe is the greater good)
I believe Cyan is correct. At least that is how I, a U.S. Marine sees things.
General Patton said: “Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”
Red Army, for not making mistakes, managed to kill both of them in the process (German and Russian soldiers).
General Patton said: “Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”
That is a good quote. I like it.
@M36:
I believe Cyan is correct. At least that is how I, a U.S. Marine sees things.
I appulad you for your service M36.
Why thank you, but I haven’t done anything yet. If you want to applaud somebody, applaud my brother, he has 62 confirmed kills I believe.
shoulda been 63 :-D dont the marines tell you that :wink:
Haha, well my bro is Army so I’m not going to be playing up his accomplishments. 8-)
@M36:
Haha, well my bro is Army so I’m not going to be playing up his accomplishments. 8-)
anyone noticed you only gotta kill 5 people for the airforce but like 50 in the army and marines? :lol:
Navy doesn’t kill sh*t, unless we’re talking about in video games… :roll:
Thats cause there aren’t any dogfights anymore so they had to lower their standards.
@M36:
Why thank you, but I haven’t done anything yet. If you want to applaud somebody, applaud my brother, he has 62 confirmed kills I believe.
Counterstrike, eh? That game sucks.
Very funny Jermo. 8-)
