You are Funny girl.
It was a great Northern victory, but it was not realised at the time.
Atlanta is all that mattered, so the action at Mobile was overlooked at the time
Taxes
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I know. I just wanted to play the liberal for once, can you blame me?
Hell, where I grew up originally we made choices between having apples or having toilet paper. Screw phones and television! We had a television in the town hall, it had 2 channels, the entertainment channel and the news channel. Guess which one we watched?
That’s why I’m fed up with all these subsistence programs. Nothing drives a person to succeed better then success. If you make life easy for the unsuccessful, they will remain unsuccessful.
If we need programs like this, then I think we are rewarding the wrong citizens. It should be the middle classes, the backbone of America’s economy, that gets the rewards, not the upper crust of lower dredges.
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I don’t see any option in the poll that could be classified as a progressive tax scheme, eg. where you pay a higher percentage in a higher income tax bracket.
Which incidentally I don’t think would dissuade anyone from trying to earn more money, even though they’ll pay higher taxes on those extra dollars.
But this is running dangerously close to PD. Just making a point about the poll options. All the options are flat, aren’t they?
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I don’t see any option in the poll that could be classified as a progressive tax scheme, eg. where you pay a higher percentage in a higher income tax bracket.
Which incidentally I don’t think would dissuade anyone from trying to earn more money, even though they’ll pay higher taxes on those extra dollars.
But this is running dangerously close to PD. Just making a point about the poll options. All the options are flat, aren’t they?
thats why i don’t think i voted.
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i think one of the worst taxes oissible is food taxes. it targets the poor. it should be a crime to make the poor barely afford food.
i can MATHMATICLLY show you using probablly pre-algrebra 1 skills at most. -
Frood: Are you referring to the current system?
Cyan: I agree, that’s why I think a flat tax rate should specifically exempt basic food stuffs and medicine. This would include vegetables, fruit, meat, breads and dairy. This would NOT include pre-made meals like those for the microwave. Just rawer foods like Wheat Bread, Maize, Apples, etc. And the medicine exclusion would be for prescribed medicines only, not for things like aspirin or MAALOX.
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Which incidentally I don’t think would dissuade anyone from trying to earn more money, even though they’ll pay higher taxes on those extra dollars.<<
You might be surprised. My Wife is from Thailand where their income tax is about 15%. When she started working here the tax rate was about 21%. With her newest W2 contract because it pays a lot better she’s getting taxed at almost 30%. She was sooo pissed off and contemplated quiting on the spot. Penalizing people for working hard and trying to achieve better and better things is a sure fire way to get people NOT to work hard or strive to better their lives. I mean, the truly Rich has many tax shelters and what they can’t shelter they blink about paying because what’s a few more percentage points on 10 million? Its nothing to them. But the middle class that works hard to save money and prepare for retirement and to afford for college tuition for the kids get penalized so much for achieving strong incomes that the progressive tax is a major means to prevent ascension from the ranks of the middle class to the rich. I mean, the lower class can climb their way to the middle class ranks merely be working hard, garnering work experience, and progressively upgrading jobs as that experience allows. But most traditional jobs have an income cap to them and a high tax at the upper end cuts those people off at the legs from securing a stronger financial future.
My Chosen Tax Structures:
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No Income Tax whatsoever on ANYONE making less than the medium average wage (not sure if this should be based on a national average, or established locally by tweaking the national average based on local cost of living). Over the median wage a progressive tax starting at 1% going up to just 10% based on an percentile basis of where you are on the wage chart. The idea being pegging these levels to the job market with the intent to prevent greedy politicians from gradually lowering the thresh holds for each incrimental tax point.
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State sales taxes (basic consumption tax), with food and medical items and services exempt. Key insurance industries should be tax exempt as well, especially any type of insurance which is more or less an essential of life (health insurance, car insurance, house insurance)
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State income taxes. 2% at maximum. A revenue share can be worked out between the states and the fed. Exempt for anyone earning under the poverty level.
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A single one time property tax when purchasing a property. Not annually. A minor (and I mean minor) tax reduction on reduction on this amount for 1 and 2 children, but nothing additional for more than 2 children.
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Capital Gains taxes such as, stock dividends, interests gains or the sales of stocks. But I also think this should be on an annual basis only and ONLY when you chose to remove cash from those investments. Growth on the investments should be left with the investments, tax, free, and allowed to keep growing. I think a very small capital gains tax upon successful selling of a property might be ok, but only on the “Gains”. So, as the buyer, maybe you pay a state tax of 10% when you buy the property and lets say you buy a house valued at $200K. 10 years later you sell it for $350K, maybe a small tax of 5% of so on the $150K in increased property value might be reasonable.
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Renters Tax. 1-2% tax leveraged on rented housing. This very specifically would be designed to encourage home ownership.
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Taxes on corporations much as they exist today. No “special” or heavier taxes on industries just because they are large or more profitable than other industries. Where civil infrastructure or environmental costs are involved for the business to be established, operated/monitored, would be charged to the business as pass thru fees, not taxes.
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Import taxes. Only where we chose to leverage importing fees on products. For instance, if China charges import duties on our products, we would return in kind. Import fees should never be considered a means for government to make up lost taxes from other areas. Where needed, port inspection fees may be reasonable if the cost of safe inspection of imported cargo is necessary to safeguard our country.
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Wartime act, emergency spending. If the nation goes to war and the government needs additional funds to finance the military spending everyone above the poverty line could be assessed a one time annual fee, but no greater than 10-15% of a persons income wage rate for that whole year. This fee would be a “loan” to the government at a market rate APR that the government would have to pay back within a fixed amount of time at the declared end of the war. If, for some reason, a person could not pay the assessed fee when required, they should be able to get a federally backed loan from most any financial banking institute where the rate for that loan should be the governments APR plus maybe 1-2% at worst. With money for surplus military spending coming, at least temporarily, directly out of the savings accounts of the average citizen (as opposed to nebulously from our taxes), its a fair bet the average citizen will care a whole lot more about international issues and hold their elected officials more directly accountable. My bet is wars or major military actions or even UN support roles will only get approved by the majority of people come that point and if approved, at least they would have more personal accountability there. And with surplus military funding being having to come from loans accountable to the average citizen rather than taxes which the government officials all too often regard as “theirs”, they would know darn well that how they attempt to vote on such issues will very much impact their chances for re-election.
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Not strictly tax related, but every citizen should have the right to establish a 401K program under their own name and administration, even prior to the age of 18. This is not something that would be registered with an employer, but rather with the individual so it need not ever be transferred or shifted to a Roth or whatever when you change employers. Money invested into the 401K should be pre tax, as now and all “market gains” as opposed to principle you put into the account, should get taxed at half the the standard capital gains rate when it is taken out for retirement.
Really, that should be about it. I have a hard time seeing where the justification for any other taxes should come from.
Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com -
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I agree, income taxes, or more accurately stated, a tax on the creation of wealth, encourages people not to create wealth, which fosters a growth in the nanny state or socialized welfare programs for the non or under performers.
For instance, when I worked for McDonald’s I found out that if I worked my normal shift for one more week, I’d actually have to pay taxes instead of getting all my taxes back as a refund. So I told the boss not to schedule me for the last week. He was mad. However, I got “paid” thousands of dollars in tax refunds that I would have lost as well as kept the money I would have had to pay on top of my withholdings.
This goes on at the bracket limits at all strata. Why should we reward people for NOT working? Better would be a straight percentage then. Everyone pays X% of their income in taxes whether you earn $25,000 a year or $2,500,000 a year.
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I agree, income taxes, or more accurately stated, a tax on the creation of wealth, encourages people not to create wealth, which fosters a growth in the nanny state or socialized welfare programs for the non or under performers.
For instance, when I worked for McDonald’s I found out that if I worked my normal shift for one more week, I’d actually have to pay taxes instead of getting all my taxes back as a refund. So I told the boss not to schedule me for the last week. He was mad. However, I got “paid” thousands of dollars in tax refunds that I would have lost as well as kept the money I would have had to pay on top of my withholdings.
This goes on at the bracket limits at all strata. Why should we reward people for NOT working? Better would be a straight percentage then. Everyone pays X% of their income in taxes whether you earn $25,000 a year or $2,500,000 a year.
well some can’t afford to give up anything. there should be brackets.
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Frood: Are you referring to the current system?
I guess so. I just meant that your options don’t cover the whole range of possibilities. And what’s the difference between a “Flat tax” and the first two options?
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A percentage of income is a tax on the creation of wealth. If you earn money, you pay taxes. Doesn’t matter what you earned money on, if you made more money then you lost for the year, you pay taxes on that money.
A percentage of wealth is a tax on all the wealth you have. You total all your assets, subtract all your liabilities, and pay a tax on that. Note, for homes and other such items, you would take the market value of the home - the mortgage on the home, not the original purchase price.
A flat tax is everyone paying the same amount as everyone else. For instance, everyone pays $1,000 to the government in taxes that year.
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If a flat tax means a fixed amount of money, then options 3, 4 and 5 are identical.
I just am confused by what you mean.
I think though generally in tax policy a flat tax refers to a fixed percentage for everyone. I don’t think anyone has a straight “flat tax” as you describe it, do they?
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If a flat tax means a fixed amount of money, then options 3, 4 and 5 are identical.
I just am confused by what you mean.
I think though generally in tax policy a flat tax refers to a fixed percentage for everyone. I don’t think anyone has a straight “flat tax” as you describe it, do they?
flat tax = same precentage as everyone
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The building my church leases has these bricks with various donor names on them.
The Bad News Bears got their uniforms sponsored by the bail bonds company.
Perhaps parts of our government funding should have our names attached to it.
Like Bill & Melinda Gates getting their names in a plaque over some bridges or state / federal buildings or some of us getting our names on the patches of troopers in Afghanistan, Korea, or Iraq.
I would like to think that the taxes would be worthwhile if we all got a piece of ownership in the government.
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I guess I rally am just too much of a Fair Tax supporter at this point.
1. EVERYONE pays the 23% inclusive sales tax on every good and service they buy
2. EVERYONE gets the prebate monthly in the amount that they would pay in taxes to poverty level spending for their household size.
3. Taxes are paid only ONCE on the purchase of a new product or service.So…
- Folks who choose to reduce their tax burden by purchasing used goods (existing homes, used cars, etc.) could DRAMATICALLY reduce their tax burden.
- Only those who CHOSE to spend freely on new products would pay increased taxes.
- No need to exempt food or medicine since the prebate refunds the tax burden for any spending on ANYTHING up to the poverty line (so rent, housing food, medicine, gasoline, school supplies, electric bill, etc. could ALL potentially have ZERO tax)
- People like Bill Gates would not be throwing a dinner fund raiser with tax-exempt food
- The underground economy would be gone… no more working “under the table” since there are no wage or payroll taxes to avoid.
I just honestly see this as a win-win-win-win-win for the American People.
It encourages saving
It encourages investment
It encourages recycling and conservation
It removes power from Washington to control what people do by manipulation of the tax code
It removes from Washington the power to reward campaign donors, etc. via the giving of tax breaksI just really do not see a downside for the people of the United States if this were to pass.
And while somewhat politcal (since it relates to an actual bill before Congress) this is posted as an illustration of what the typical family would gain with this change in the tax code… so a Sociology post, not a Political post.
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Frood:
3, 4 and 5 are not the same.
The Flat Tax everyone pays the same dollar amount as everyone else.
The Flat Percentage means everyone pays the same percentage of their income as everyone else (for instance 10% or 50%)
The Flat Wealth tax means that everyone determines their net worth and pays the same percentage of that value as everyone else.And, for the record, everyone can afford to pay something to the government in taxes. Even if your entire income comes from finding coins on the street, you can afford to pay 10% of $1 because you get free medical clinics, you get free shelters, you get free food from missions, free clothes from charities, etc. So you are getting more back then what you pay in.
However, if you are earning millions of dollars it is almost impossible to find tax shelters if everyone has to pay the same percentage of wealth. Your share will be enormous, while the poor person won’t be paying hardly anything. This is a REAL redistribution of wealth, not a tax on the creation of wealth.
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3. Taxes are paid only ONCE on the purchase of a new product or service.
So…
- Folks who choose to reduce their tax burden by purchasing used goods (existing homes, used cars, etc.) could DRAMATICALLY reduce their tax burden.<<
Boy, could that be abused.
two companies partner with each other. I sell my products, retail, to another company for $.02 each. Another company sells their products to us for $.02 each as well. We pay the sales tax on that. We then buy those same products back “used” at a 50% reduction for $.01 each. We then proceed to sell them, tax free, to all the consumers we originally intended to sell them to, using a price of goods 23% cheaper than legitimate businesses playing by the spirit of the rules.
Also, regarding taxing a goods only once, manufactured goods are taxed just once. Unless they happen to catch import duties. In the design and publishing of our games, any component products that are a part of the final product for sale, we get tax exempt status on. So I don’t as a business pay sales tax on paper, ink, boxes, etc, then make a board game and then you pay taxes on it also. Just one tax, leveraged as a sales tax. Unless, of course, you want to look at corporate taxes such as taxes on profits, federal employment taxes, state mandated unemployment insurance, etc, etc. All of which influence the final price of goods sold.
Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483onine.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com -
GOB,
Tax Evasion would still be a crime :-)
Also, the products you buy that are “tax exempt” (I assume you mean from state sales tax) may not have an overt tax, but they do have embedded taxes.
For example the paper…
Embedded in the cost of the paper you purchase to make that game are the following taxes:
1. Property taxes of the tree farm where the trees were grown
2. Payroll taxes for the people harvesting the trees
3. Sales tax on the goods used to harvest the trees (chain saws, log skidders, trucks)
4. Liquid Fuels taxes for the truck that transports the logs
5. Payroll taxes for the truck drivers
6. Property taxes for the paper mill
7. Payroll taxes for the workers at the paper mill
8. Liquid fuels and truck driver payroll taxes for shipping the finished paper
9. Property taxes for the retailers warehouse facility
10. Payroll taxes for the employees at the warehouse
11. More liquid fuels tax and driver payroll taxes to ship the goods to the retail outlet
12. Property taxes for the retail store
13. Payroll taxes for the store employees.
14. Corporate earnings taxes for the tree farm
15. Corporate earnings taxes for all the truck drivers
16. Corporate earnings taxes for the paper mill
17. Corporate earnings taxes for the retailerNow those are just the obvious ones.
Do you pay the 5% or 6% state sales tax on that paper? No you do not.
Do you still pay a boat load of taxes embedded into the cost of that paper? Oh hell yes.Under the Fair Tax plan, you would eliminate MOST of the embedded taxes listed above. There would be no payroll taxes that got added on to the cost of the finished product, no corporate income taxes added in to the cost of the product.
The AVERAGE embedded taxes in the cost of a typical finished product in the United States is 23%. That figure does not included the embedded cost of tax system COMPLIANCE, which is estimated to be over $100,000,000,000.00 annually.
Stat Source: Fairtax.org
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Which, coincidentally, is why the entire state of Illinois is irate with the Governor of Illinois. He wants to levy a business tax but we, the people, realize that it is US that have to pay that tax. We’ll just have to pay more for the goods so they can collect the revenue to pay the state.
That’s why I’m not a huge fan. I think the costs of goods would be too high for us if businesses had to pay a tax on all their raw materials. Better to make business exempt from the tax and only tax the people. After all, it’s the people who end up paying it. People are the only parts of the economy that produce, businesses just guide that production and convert that labor into money to make the economy easier to deal with. But if you strip away all the layers and really look at what the economy is, the only things producing anything are people. People do the labor mining. People do the labor farming. People do the labor trucking. People do the labor painting. If you tax the people and only the people, then we can be a bit more fair about who is being taxed and who is not. IMHO
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The good thing about taxing resource extraction is that it can help correct market distortions where the business is not paying the full cost of extraction, eg. all the externalities such as pollution, depletion of non-renewable resources, use of public infrastructure (trucking etc. w/ wear on highways). When people and/or businesses have to pay the true full cost of something they tend to be more conservative with it.
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That can all be covered in fines and in the government charging the right amount for the land being sold and then sharing the proceeds with those people who would have to pay the price. Kinda like what we are demanding Iraq do with it’s oil. Why we can’t seem to do it here I’ll never know.
If you sell logging rights in CNNF, then why not give the people of Wisconsin a share in the profits from the land sale of CNNF? If you allow someone to build an oil refinery in Waco, TX, why not give everyone that lives in Waco a share of the proceeds from the sale of the land in Waco?
We don’t need to tax business, we do need to fine business and force businesses that use communal property for personal gain to redistribute that wealth back to the community, at least in part. (Remember, they still have to find the labor and pay for the labor to make the money, so they need to make a profit.)
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