My new plan for America, part 2, Tax reform


  • No, I’m simply saying that becuase the taxpayers all contribute, you shouldn’t be weighing one person more then another.

    I guess my biggest problem is the fact that some people don’t contribute AT ALL. We have MANY people in this country who simply don’t pay ANY taxes whatsoever, and that pisses me off. They use the system, they enjoy the system, yet they don’t contribute to the system. Seems pretty unfair to me…


  • General plans (like what Yanny is providing) and overviewing are meant as only to be used a set of guidelines for what has to be done. I’m sure we don’t want this discussion to turn into a game of “Campaign for North Africa” where ever logistical problem must be factored in. That requires a group of people (each specialist) and cannot possibly be covered in just one topic. However, that doesn’t mean we should give up and just complain, instead of giving an alternative that can used to help enact similar changes in the government. Remember, to risk little is to gain little. You start high and work yourself down.


  • I agree with SUD’s well thought-out and challenging posts (which is self-serving in a way, in that he supports my position to an extent :) )

    Go back to your “intro to economics” classes with regards to the “less taxes vs. more cash injection”. You may be surprised that one drives the economy far better than the other. Of course when it comes to inflation, ironically a way to control that might actually be reducing spending (and therefore reducing taxes - pulling money out of circulation in this way).
    I don’t purport to be an expert on this, particularly with respect to the American taxation system - i have enough trouble with the Canadian one, and i understand it better than many of my family and friends :).


  • Well, in case anyone was wondering what the problem with our current Social Security program is, here is something interesting:

    Right now, American taxpayers face a nearly $20 trillion unfunded Social Security liability. Although today we have a large Social Security surplus, when baby booms start retiring, the government is going to start paying out more benefits than it receives in payroll taxes. Around 2020, the Social Security deficit alone will be around $100 billion, and it will approach $300 billion a year by 2037.

    We can’t continue on the path we’re on. Although short-sighted people might think it’s wonderful that we’re providing for our old-people, longterm views dictate that we’re making a mistake.


  • A few points.

    First, Yanny, you sound like a capitalist. I thought you were a lefty. Maybe after getting screwed by taxes reality sunk in.

    Second, SUD, Bill Gates does cost the government dozens of times of what a poor person does. However in taxes, even if you did it by flat per4centage, he would be putting in hundreds to thousands of times as many taxes.

    Third, Crypt, if you put Social Security money in an account, like an IRA, you would make much more money. The governement makes like 1.5% on your Social Security money.

    Fourth, Crypt, the Candian economy is more like what you want and less like what Yanny wants. And the Current U.S. system is more like what Yanny wants than what you want. Which economy is doing better. Which country DEPENDS upon the other countrie’s economy.


  • @yourbuttocks:

    Third, Crypt, if you put Social Security money in an account, like an IRA, you would make much more money. The governement makes like 1.5% on your Social Security money.

    Fourth, Crypt, the Candian economy is more like what you want and less like what Yanny wants. And the Current U.S. system is more like what Yanny wants than what you want. Which economy is doing better. Which country DEPENDS upon the other countrie’s economy.

    Yeah, i don’t know anything about the US social security thing.
    Also i think that Canadians are overtaxed. It seems that overall the structure is similar (as you move up, your income increase is taxed at a higher level - not your overall income blah blah blah), but our system is just a little too crazy. I do agree with Yanny in that i’m sure both countries need an overhaul of their current systems (stupid Borden - income tax was only supposed to be around until after the war).
    ahhh well. It’s hard being a fiscal conservative with a social conscience . . . or is that fiscal liberal with a conservative conscience?
    UGGGG


  • I’m not the person to work out the details. However, I am a US citizen, and I am trying to get laws changed. My general plan (and the Nuclear Energy thread) are ment to be a general overview for experts to build on.

    Bill Gates may use the facilities more, but he pays his taxes like us all. And he pays the carrier who pays the airport for use of it’s utilities. He pays the hotdog guy who pays the airport. The carrier and the hotdog guy also pay taxes on the money that Bill Gates contributed.


  • @Soon_U_Die:

    YouButtocks: no doubt that even under a flat tax scheme, the wealthiest 5% would pay 100s or even 1000s the times of tax as the poorest 5%. Unfortunately, what we don’t know is whether that is enough or fair. Perhaps they should pay 1000s to 10,000s of times as much? Without a fully allocated cost structure, one cannot say for sure. I have given very minor examples that people can relate to on an everyday basis, which doesn’t seem sufficient to make my point for some of our readers. So I will give you just one big one. How should the cost of Defence & Security be allocated? One way to look at this would be to assume every person is assigned the same cost on a per person basis. But another way would be to assume that Defence & Security is actually about protecting wealth, in which case, you might allocate on the basis of a persons total share of the nations total wealth. What do you think the implication would be to the top 5% if you suddenly allocated the total Defence & Security budgets on that basis? Perhaps, when you start looking at it this way, 100s to 1000s of times is not enough. Just food for thought. The point is that rather generic statements about these things is insufficient to actually make prudent decisions. Personally, I’d rather love for all of us to pay less tax; meaning I’d rather discuss what programs should be cut. Most Tax Reform discussion is not really about cutting taxes, it is really about redistributing the tax base. There is definitely some potential merit in doing so, as certain taxes are more efficient at things than other taxes. Here is a cut and paste of a simple point or two which illustrates what we actually don’t know :)

    Further to this, not just Defence, but also consider:
    Education - Bill and his employees are enjoying the benefits of education to a considerable degree. One might say that they used as much public education as the poor, however Bill is profitting immensely from his and his employees’ education - more than most.
    Foreign Affairs - the wealthy enjoy the benefits of money spent in this department considerably more than most. For example trade is HUGELY dependent on a gov’ts relationships with other countries built on wise use of tax dollars. Furthermore the wealthy travel more, etc.
    Infrastructure - roads and other public structures and utilities (not the pay-per-use ones as much) are likely to be used more by the wealthy (transport etc.).
    Legal - the gov’t spends tons o’ cash in regulating companies and lawsuits designed to protect the American people from the hubris of the wealthy.
    and i’m sure that someone of a more meticulous mind and idea of the way the American gov’t system is run could figure more out.

    Speaking of which - SUD - what is your background? You smell like an accountant :)


  • Two things about the Candian economy.

    1. Dolar is worth less than the U.S. one

    2. Sells 90 percent of it’s exports to the U.S.

    The U.S. is so strong we prop up other economies by buying and buying and buying with a tiny amount of selling


  • exactly
    :lol:

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