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++++++++++++++++ ASW detection/search rolls are made against all subs as a group. One detection means detection for all subs… they are all screwed.
Oh…had no idea thats what you meant.
I feel “detected” should not represent just a warning to your fleet that there are “some” enemy submarines “somewhere”. (hence I don’t think its should be 100% detected or 100% undetected)
Rather it should represent detected and tracked hence the submarine loses its sneak attack.
+++++++++++ thats all it DOES represent. It only allows the known condition that “we have enemy subs and we are preparing to sink them with ASW capable ships”
This reduces the surprise effect of the ‘first strike’ as naval surface units change formation to zig zag movement etc…
Now they can attack again rolling out a 2 for a hit.
What else is it supposed to be??
How about one successful ASW search roll means one detected submarine.
Then no need to separately say 1-to-1.
++++++++++ HMMM… this was studied before, and the conclusion is that all the ships react under sub attack conditions, which would burden the rules with now separating the subs into different groups which is clearly something you don’t wish to see. It adds a further layer of complexity because now you have to fight with subs sperately into groups of identified/detected and undetected.
I suppose as a way to compensate under such a system if it had to exist would be to raise the detection to 3-4 or any group of subs larger than 2 is gonna crush ships because remember we have ‘wolfpack’ rules of 3 or more subs attacking at 3. It would prove devastating and not historical.
rolling a 2 per ship would present detection after 3 rolls on average, and you do understand that both ships and subs tend to flock together so its safe to assume detection would mean ‘the entire enemy sub fleet’
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++++++++++ its basically the sub owner says " i hit your Battleship" the defending player says ‘i allocate this destroyer to take the hit’
The wording of the screening rule does not allow you to decide after knowing the number of hits.
You don’t get to know that its one hit so you allocate it on BB to save the DD.
if 1 DD screens 1 BB
1 sub/air hit -> DD dies
2 sub/air hits -> DD dies, BB damaged
+++++ correct you decide the screening before the roll out. The screening is for potential hit allocations once sub targets have been allocated and if the sub hits beyond the screening units allocated, then the target ship is hit. Additional screening units cannot absorb these hits.
This should be clear… perhaps we need more examples of play or you can provide an example of a players turn?
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Perhaps we can get rid of "targeted attacks and screening and allow the owner to decide, but he will take subs instead of air hits, or air units instead of battleships.
Well our very basic hit allocate restrictions remains.
Subs hits + gun battle hits —> can only go on non-sub naval units
Anti-air hits —> can only go on attacking planes
I can’t see a way to simplify air units yet.
But I think we can simplify to unselective fire for detected submarines. That should be realistic if along my above thoughts of detected and tracked.
+++++++++++ perhaps we just have screening units which work under sub and plane attacks ( in the same manner) and just lump the planes performing torpedo runs together with the surface naval attack rolls, except the defending ships roll out their AA rolls prior to planes targeted hits, followed by enemy surface actions by both parties.
Important question: Historically did fleet submarines work together with friendly gunships? I have no idea and I was guessing no due to danger of torpedo friendly fire. This is why in the pre-colour system I had submarines fire preemptively.
++++++++++ subs were used in advance of the surface fleet as a screening force. subs didn’t attack ships during full surface combat, because they would need to identify which ships were enemy and friendly, and this required bringing up the parascope for long periods which concluded that subs detection. Secondly, the ships were moving at full battle speed and subs cant really hit ships moving at full speed. Subs abilities relied on surprise while enemy was sailing at slower speeds. Surface combat forces many sharp turns and performance at top efficiency, and subs cant compete with this.
Subs are basically like scavengers that pick off wounded ships already slowed down by combat. Thats why these interactions are handled separately.
The whole idea of wolfpack is an accurate term… you have a flock of sheep moving slowly in calm waters and a group of wolfs hunting down the outside ships that may get separated when the convoy is just reacting. The subs pounce on these hopeless ships and the destroyer is activated to then take away the engagement opportunities of subs and conduct ASW.
