That makes sense. I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks for responding! :+1:
Operation Setting Sun
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Intimidate Japan into a decision to defend the home islands OR grab the money/India. The earlier Japan declares war, the more effective this plan is going to be but it’s still effective as a 100% KJF. The final build outcome should be focused on subs early JDOW or destroyers late JDOW–at the end, I present both scenarios about what you could deploy on USA4. Anzac builds subs, and their planes land on US-provided carriers. USA will feel safer with more destroyers but the subs are better because you’ll use them to convoy and harass.
What to do?
Japan usually leaves only 1 carrier near japan. If he J1s, move up and get ready to attack SZ6. If he doesnt declare war early, get big with 1 giant well defended navy (DD balance) and get ready to step up sit in SZ25/26. No naval base is required–if Japan is going to try and kill India, his planes and ships can’t cover both. They can kami and attack SZ 6 from anywhere, so the goal isn’t to hold SZ6, its to threaten it, convoy it, send subs and blockers through it, and overall, stop him from coming back to or deploying fleet at the home islands when you start getting really threatening. Standing is SZ 7 (or 16, 5 etc.) (correction) is the best case scenario as long as he cannot defeat your fleet (DD emphasis and full carriers with ANZAC), you cant be screened out, you hold the path open for your reinforcements from hawaii to enter SZ 6…SZ 5 units can cross through SZ 6 which is really frustrating to japan.ANZAC subs hang nearby to strike any japan fleet that remains after the big USA confront. Russian men stay east and off coast to provide a US bomber base.
What not to do?
Build much on East Coast or send anything more than a few units across Atlantic
except when factory limited, then move through canal
Build transports until US4-5 fueling those will reduce our punchIf you didn’t overwhelm on the seas early game, keep up the subs. If you are poised for the grand battle on US4 (or earlier) build strat bombers and transports during US 5-8. A combination of your early sub heavy fleet + air is devastating (land in Russia or Iwo w Strats). If somehow Japan is simply too powerful for you to step up north, move to Queensland, grudgingly…
A strong Japan player can stalemate your fleet, but still has to abandon major objectives by J6. A weaker Japan will have to scramble to defend his home base as you step up with impunity. Trading your big USA fleet for Japans (queen for queen) is a trade in the Allies favor because USA always has a follow on fleet–even if the battle goes badly the next wave of USA subs or the minor allies can mop up. I prefer the sub heavy version (20+)
B/CV/CA/D/Sub/T + F/Tac
J1 Attack US 52
1/1/3/2/1/3 + 5/1/1
J1 PH
1/1/2/1/1/2 + 5/1/1US BASE FLEET ASSUMPTION WORST CASE
1/1/3/2/1/3TT 5F 1TBUSA 1 BUY
J1 YES 1 CV 6 SUB : earn 70
J1 NO 1 CV 1 DD 1 SUB/East 2 DD 1 SUB : earn 52USA 2
@Hawaii
1/2/3/2/7/3TT
Hawaii @ 4 FIG 4 INFUSA 2 BUY
J1/J2 YES 1 CV 6 SUB/9 SUB
J2 NO 1 CV 1 DD 1 SUB/ 2 DD 1 SUBUSA 3
@ Hawaii or Queensland
1/3/3/2/13/3 and 5 F 1 Tac 1 Strat AND 3 ANZAC Fig
4 units + 4 units from 3 TT runs 1 TT @ SF 2 TT @ honoUSA 3 BUY
BUY @ 70 1 CV 3 DD 2 INF 4 SUBUSA 4
@ war 1/4/3/5/17 + 6(+2) FIG 1 TB w/1 CA 1 DD
@ Hawaii 8 men + 4 more 2 TT @ Hawaii and 1 @ SF ready to pickUSA 4 BUY
BUY @ 70 ART 1 DD 7 SUB East Coast 2 INF 1 TTTotals 1/4/3/6/24/4/8FIG 12-16 Men in theatre on Hawaii
Or
Totals 1/3/3/14/16/4/8FIG 12 menSuggestions to improve please
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If you assume there’s a J1 DOW, won’t Japan just run after India and the money islands and ignore your fleet?
You don’t really have enough to hold SZ6 against a strong attack with so many subs and so few CVs. All those subs can’t hit planes so Japan can attack with its enormous air force and lose only a few planes. There’s no reason Japan has to have any ships in SZ6 so long as it can strike it.
Are you taking the Caroline Islands? If you can take and hold that, your subs can hit the IJN anywhere that they’re useful. If they’re hiding in SZ37, you can then start convoying SZ6 and take Korea.
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You are correct–but the planes stacked in Yunnan and SZ 36 and 37 and getting ready for india cant reach SZ 7 (sry the numbers are really small on my image). Everything Japan has can reach SZ 6 and like I said, you’re not intended to park your fleet there after a victory. The idea is during the J1-J4 period where Japan is focused on southern objectives; all of his bombardment ships and 2 of his 4 (I always build 1 w Japan) carriers can’t reach you. If there’s peace through that period, then Japan may be fueling continental factories. Typical Japan play puts lots of emphasis on the chinese factories and forces to bag india and im responding to that by putting down offensive sea power with USA.
J1 leaves Japan very thin. Each Japan unit has a job and not much is left behind, so that you can usually take Iwo, and USA is at top income and factory production right away.
Where else can Japan put navy than SZ 6? It can’t re-create the nucleus of a 2d/3d fleet if you threaten that zone. Just like subs cant hit his planes, without stacks of destroyers he cant hit them with planes at all, either. Getting to the SZ 6 and SZ 19 convoy money is the goal–not taking any territory early on.
When Japan’s back is turned, get ready to strike. If they dont declare an early war, get big and then step up north, AWAY from the area he’s trying to control. After Japan smashes India, he wants africa/austraila next and the entire plan is predicated on him getting greedy and leaving minimal forces within striking distance of the squares you’re allowed to step into as US imm. after declaration of war.
Your criticism is spot on–subs offer no protection on the water. They do however create an intimidating threat to Japan when it tries to stand in the defense against you. If Japan can attack, you’d be screwed, thus the DDs.
Appreciate your insight, going to be trying this against Dave tomorrow.
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Taking Iwo Jima US1 usually costs you a transport though. I think that’s a bad trade. A third TT for the Pacific could be a worthwhile investment. I guess you could bring across the Atlantic one just as quickly.
Japan might not be able to build any more Navy until J4 with what I’m outlining. J1: buy 3TTs, J2, buy naval base and air base in FIC (maybe), J3 buy IC in FIC. So if you lose all your DDs, you aren’t getting a new one for a while. That certainly means it won’t have much to buy J3. Perhaps it will buy another IC in China? It may be optimal for Japan to avoid buying an artillery so it can buy the two facilities and an IC for FIC. Hadn’t thought about that before.
You actually only really need one DD to hit SZ6 and devastate a sub force, even if it’s part of a mixed fleet.
I actually kind of like your plan - I wasn’t looking to criticise it. I would be cautious about putting a bunch of subs in SZ6 though. They can so easily be trapped and not able to escape. Running to Midway is only any good if you can stand and fight there. You would need a force able to strike a DD+scramble every US turn so I think you should be thinking of taking Korea, best done as USA. Otherwise Japan could even build an airbase there. The bigger threat is the IJN though.
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People on FB and here are continuing the discussion of subs–worthless or worthy, so I’ma gonna pull this plan back up to the top as an example of a detailed, sub based plan.
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