@argothair yes that indeed is an issue. That is why i stop doing taranto but this form of Gibastion. This way i save the fleet and carrier. So UK 2 i move them (UK fighters from the Med and London who are now in algeria) to Egypte and there on to Moscow. Togethee with the Anzac fighters this gives Russia a bit of breathing space.
The factory in Egypte buys subs and a fighter turn two and from turn 3 on fighters abd Land units .
It is not the perfect plan but wirh a US going 75% KJF you can’t invade Europe direct.
The Spanish Beachhead: American Strategy
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I didn’t watch the entire video (an hour is a too long for me) but I did skim it. So maybe you adressed this in the video, otherwise let me add two remarks.
-Placing your carriers in SZ102 will allow your planes to attack Spain, increasing the odds of killing the Spanish in 1 round of combat. Note that this is allowed even while the USA is still neutral. Also note that this might be important considering my second point below.
-Something I didn’t see mentioned (again, maybe you did but I didn’t watch everything) is that the Spanish beachhead is weakened because you have to spread out your land units. For example, you cannot afford to lose Gibraltar, it is the Achillesheel in this strategy. If you take Spain and Italy takes Gibraltar, your 10 transports are useless because they cannot go to USA and back again in 2 turns but 3. A strong move to prevent this is to send 1-2 transports to Gibraltar + 2-3 fighters + airbase on D-day (ask Brits for help). (On side note: another anoying Italian move is to take Morocco, after which every single German plane can hit you. The fleet looks strong enough though. If it doesn’t, you have to secure Morocco as well with 1-2 transports on D-day, further weakening the Spanish beachhead).
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I didn’t watch the entire video (an hour is a too long for me) but I did skim it. So maybe you adressed this in the video, otherwise let me add two remarks.
-Placing your carriers in SZ102 will allow your planes to attack Spain, increasing the odds of killing the Spanish in 1 round of combat. Note that this is allowed even while the USA is still neutral. Also note that this might be important considering my second point below.
No the USA can’t attack Spain (or any other territory) until it is at war. It can’t even be on its future allies territories, or use their bases (Euro or Pac). On the Euro side the US fleet can’t leave the coastline of the US other then then sz 102, or another US territory (like Greenland or Mexico). US has more freedom of movement on the Pac side, but can’t be next to any Japanese territory.
Your other points about keeping control of Gib, and the Italians opening up a landing space for the German air force are great points to consider.
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@WILD:
I didn’t watch the entire video (an hour is a too long for me) but I did skim it. So maybe you adressed this in the video, otherwise let me add two remarks.
-Placing your carriers in SZ102 will allow your planes to attack Spain, increasing the odds of killing the Spanish in 1 round of combat. Note that this is allowed even while the USA is still neutral. Also note that this might be important considering my second point below.
No the USA can’t attack Spain (or any other territory) until it is at war. It can’t even be on its future allies territories, or use their bases (Euro or Pac). On the Euro side the US fleet can’t leave the coastline of the US other then then sz 102, or another US territory (like Greenland or Mexico). US has more freedom of movement on the Pac side, but can’t be next to any Japanese territory.
Your other points about keeping control of Gib, and the Italians opening up a landing space for the German air force are great points to consider.
Hi Bill,
You misinterpreted my meaning - badly worded on my part. What I meant was that the carriers + fighters could be placed in SZ102 while still being neutral. This is usefull if the USA knows it will attack Spain in the next turn (a turn in which USA is no longer neutral for whatever reason), because the fighters are in position to join the assault against Spain.
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just curious when going this strategy do you have anzac & UK PAC dropping subs into the pacific also, just to keep the IPC damage going on japan?
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Sorry, my mistake after reading it again.
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just curious when going this strategy do you have anzac & UK PAC dropping subs into the pacific also, just to keep the IPC damage going on japan?
For sure, but they will also need 1 or 2 loaded transports throughout the game.
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I like this for America. The subs/destroyers/bombers in the Pacific I think will be much more effective than it first seems. At first it may seem a minor nuisance, but eventually Japan will lose cruisers, battleships and possibly even carriers and will be hard pressed to replace them along with continuing to buy destroyers, maintaining an offensive on the mainland and dealing with what convoy raiding US subs are accomplishing. This will be a significant drain on Japan’s economy.
Also, ANZAC could sneak in there and take 1 or more of the DEI. Japan may take them right back, but it will still be a nuisance and divert resources. Like I think you said in your video, Calcutta will probably eventually fall but you may be able to drag it out a couple of rounds or so.
As for Europe, I don’t think there is any way Germany can repel such a large American force, either on Spain or SZ 91. I got to agree with Tirano and say leave Paris for a while and let the US use those French ICs. Perhaps liberate Paris once Italy is captured. This way US still has 2-3 factories in Europe to use along with the 20 unit drop every other round.
Germany will fall because there is no way they can sustain a proper defense or counter-attack possibility in the West AND continue to fund their push towards Moscow.
One thing I don’t get is how the UK will be able to take out Turkey, or even protect against the large army the Axis will have there. I get having the UK buy an IC in Persia and probably attacking the Pro-Axis Iraq, but once the US hits Spain, the Axis will have a large army there for the taking and UK is spread pretty thin down there, especially after having to beat down the Italians in N. Africa and Ethiopia. Is it possible for the UK to keep the Turks contained?
Russia could help some but any defense they put in the Caucasus is less they have against the Germans farther north. -
Was watching the video again and realized that I was explaining the importance of placing only 6 units in the Atlantic when not at war, at the persise moment I was placing 7 units during round 2 on that side (lol). Of course I would just place the fighter in Western with no effects to the overall strategy.
As for going for Paris, there have been some great points here about just occupying the minor factories in Normandy and Southern France…. and I agree 100%. However, in the video I made the mistake of strategizing with our house rules in mind, we at the bunker have been playing with my victory objective house rule for over a year now, which puts a lot of value on accualy liberating Paris even if it can be recaptured. Of course when playing oob, surrounding Paris and overwealming the area before liberation would be much wiser. Sorry for the confusion.
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Well that makes much more sense, may I ask what that house rule is?
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Well that makes much more sense, may I ask what that house rule is?
Victory Objectives and Victory Tokens
Once a victory objective is achieved, a victory token will be awarded, the side with the most victory tokens at the end of the day wins the game. Victory tokens are awarded immediately upon completion regardless of when, or how the objective was achieved, and a token can never be taken away or awarded twice for the same objective. It doesn’t matter which round the game ends, however, a win or a tie can only be declared at the end of a full game round.
Optional Rule: The first side to achieve 3 victory tokens will immediately win the game.
New Research & Development Rule:
Research rolls are no longer used to develop breakthroughs, instead, nations are awarded development rolls when victory objectives have been achieved. Once a victory token is gained, the nation with the corresponding (*) instructions listed with each objective will choose a breakthrough chart, and make a free development roll with the resulting breakthrough taking effect immediately (may not effect units already in battle during the turn in which the breakthrough was rolled). Any breakthroughs gained by either UK Europe, or UK Pacific will be shared between both UK nations throughout the game.
Here is a list of all victory objectives for each side…
Axis Powers
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London
The Axis control London
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Moscow
The Axis control Moscow
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Calcutta
The Axis control Calcutta
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Sydney
The Axis control Sydney
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
North Africa
The Axis control Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Tobruk, Alexandria, and Egypt.
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Pacific
The Axis control 6 victory cities on the Pacific map
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Europe
The Axis control 7 victory cities on the Europe map
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Global Economy
All 3 Axis powers have a combined total of 136 IPCs on the income tracker
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most
Allied Powers
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Berlin
The Allies control Berlin
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Rome
The Allies control Rome
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Tokyo
The Allies control Tokyo
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Africa
The Allied powers control all non-neutral territories on the continent of Africa
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Paris Liberation
The Allies have liberated Paris
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Philippines Liberation
The Allies have liberated the Philippines
(R&D) *The United States -
Asia
The Allies control the Burma road as well as Hong Kong and Shanghai
(R&D) *The United Kingdom -
Pacific Fleet
There are no Japanese Capital ships on the board
(R&D) *The United States
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Well I will have to be playing a game like that, thanks YG.
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Another great video, YG. Thanks for posting. Any chance you could write a list of the first four rounds of purchases for the U.S.?
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Hey YG, I have a question about that neat house rule. It says a victory token can never be taken away. So if Germany does a successful Sealion and captures London, they get a victory token. But if the US comes and liberates London, Germany still gets to keep the victory token?
Or with the “No Japanese Capital Ships”, the US gets a victory token and they get to keep it even if Japan buys a new carrier or battleship?
I really like the R&D part of it because we all like to play with tech but nobody wants to buy research rolls.
As for winning by victory tokens, it seems like in some cases one side could actually be losing but win by accumulating enough tokens throughout the game. I mean, say Germany comes on strong and captures London and Moscow at different times, gaining two tokens, but both cities get liberated and Germany is getting beaten down. They could possibly win even though the war is not really going their way.
I may be wrong. Maybe I’m just not seeing the possibilities. Still, it would be a good way to finish a game without it lasting several days (like many of ours end up doing). -
Oh yeah, I tried the Spanish Beachhead this weekend. It didn’t work quite like I expected. One problem was that Japan went on an attack spree Round 2 and dragged the US into the war early. It kind of threw me off a bit even though I don’t think it should have. It didn’t help that Japan actually occupied Hawaii and Alaska because all my stuff was in the Atlantic. I had bombers, subs and destroyers in the Pacific, but no transports or land units to take back my territories.
We ended up getting through round 4 before deciding to call it quits. I think one problem was I didn’t get the chance to really use my destroyers, subs and bombers in the Pacific. Japan got pretty monstrous and took advantage of an unusual opportunity to take out Sydney early. They didn’t even have the DEI yet and were already making in the mid 50s.
Another possible mistake is Russia decided to try going offensive. Germany sank the Royal Navy then left Britain almost alone except for sub activity. They went after Russia hard. So Russia tried a couple of counter attacks that failed miserably and they attacked Turkey right before the US landed in Spain. This was to keep the Turks out of Axis hands because Russia knew what the US was planning.
As a result, Germany was marching hard into Russia and Russia lost a lot of units in their attacks. Everything else was heading for Moscow, including the guys from the East and the Mongolians. In fact, there was a Japanese force that was just following the Russians across Russia, gobbling up all those eastern Soviet territories without a real threat.So, I’m not sure that I did it right or maybe we called it quits a little too early to tell. Not sure if I can do it again very soon. It was sure a big surprise to my Axis friends. Most games neither side touches the strict neutrals and the Allies have NEVER done it. I’d like to try it again but it will probably be a while.
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Hey YG, I have a question about that neat house rule. It says a victory token can never be taken away. So if Germany does a successful Sealion and captures London, they get a victory token. But if the US comes and liberates London, Germany still gets to keep the victory token?
Or with the “No Japanese Capital Ships”, the US gets a victory token and they get to keep it even if Japan buys a new carrier or battleship?Correct, as soon as the token is achieved, you have it for the rest of the game… this really makes the investment of sealion more rewarding.
We had a game where the Americans were in the last combat round of a huge naval battle with Japan, when the last Japanese capital ship sank… the Allies immediately got a token, and immediately got a tech roll getting Jet fighters. That’s why we added that tech can’t be used during the same turn in which it was gained because there was another battle waiting to be rolled with American fighters involved.
I really like the R&D part of it because we all like to play with tech but nobody wants to buy research rolls.
It works well because it gives more incentive to go for tokens, and a free development is a much better bonus when you have to earn it.
As for winning by victory tokens, it seems like in some cases one side could actually be losing but win by accumulating enough tokens throughout the game. I mean, say Germany comes on strong and captures London and Moscow at different times, gaining two tokens, but both cities get liberated and Germany is getting beaten down. They could possibly win even though the war is not really going their way.
We’ve been playing this way for over a year now… and I can honestly say that we have never experienced an argument where someone felt they won the game despite having fewer too tokens. The first 10 games of play testing we were all sure to evaluate whether or not the board told the same story as the token results. Everyone has agreed with the results echoed by the score of the tokens so far to date… (knock on wood). There have been a couple of anomalies like Germany using a cruiser, aircraft carrier, and destroyer all as blockers against the Americans in pursuit of their North Africa token. Things like that obviously go against the spirit of the rule, but those situations are rare. This is precisely why we don’t give a token for any American cities on their continent because those type of strategies are anti standard, and they would be done solely for the purpose of the house rule.
I may be wrong. Maybe I’m just not seeing the possibilities. Still, it would be a good way to finish a game without it lasting several days (like many of ours end up doing).
Can’t stress enough how much these objectives have improved our games, teammates cheer and trash talk when they achieve a victory objective. We even purchased a bell that we ring every time a token has been gained. We have very diverse results from game to game, I’ve seen every token achieved at least once, I’ve seen the Allies win 3-0 just on tokens from the Pacific, I’ve seen a game end 1-0 for the Axis achieved in the 12th hour playing, I’ve seen the UK get shipyards and dominate, I’ve seen the Germans get paratroopers when they had 3 airbases, and I’ve seen the Italians get heavy bombers early and had a total of 8 at the end the game. It’s also very easy to tell the game story to friends that didn’t play, you just have to explain which tokens were achieved and which developments were gained… very easy to fill in the blanks with just that info.
Here is a video explanation for victory tokens…
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Oh yeah, I tried the Spanish Beachhead this weekend. It didn’t work quite like I expected. One problem was that Japan went on an attack spree Round 2 and dragged the US into the war early. It kind of threw me off a bit even though I don’t think it should have. It didn’t help that Japan actually occupied Hawaii and Alaska because all my stuff was in the Atlantic. I had bombers, subs and destroyers in the Pacific, but no transports or land units to take back my territories.
We ended up getting through round 4 before deciding to call it quits. I think one problem was I didn’t get the chance to really use my destroyers, subs and bombers in the Pacific. Japan got pretty monstrous and took advantage of an unusual opportunity to take out Sydney early. They didn’t even have the DEI yet and were already making in the mid 50s.
Another possible mistake is Russia decided to try going offensive. Germany sank the Royal Navy then left Britain almost alone except for sub activity. They went after Russia hard. So Russia tried a couple of counter attacks that failed miserably and they attacked Turkey right before the US landed in Spain. This was to keep the Turks out of Axis hands because Russia knew what the US was planning.
As a result, Germany was marching hard into Russia and Russia lost a lot of units in their attacks. Everything else was heading for Moscow, including the guys from the East and the Mongolians. In fact, there was a Japanese force that was just following the Russians across Russia, gobbling up all those eastern Soviet territories without a real threat.So, I’m not sure that I did it right or maybe we called it quits a little too early to tell. Not sure if I can do it again very soon. It was sure a big surprise to my Axis friends. Most games neither side touches the strict neutrals and the Allies have NEVER done it. I’d like to try it again but it will probably be a while.
Very tricky to contain Japan with such little resources on that side… It sounds like the landings went well, but lost in the Pacific to early in the game. Is that right?
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Another great video, YG. Thanks for posting. Any chance you could write a list of the first four rounds of purchases for the U.S.?
I will add that info to the first post soon.
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@Young:
Another great video, YG. Thanks for posting. Any chance you could write a list of the first four rounds of purchases for the U.S.?
I will add that info to the first post soon.
Done.
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Just did the Spanish Beachhead on a big game last Sat. Allies won. Bid was 20 IPC , cash only to USSR.
US attacked Spain on Turn 5… (US brought troops to Gib on US4).
UK took Turkey , same turn.Couple of pointers:
US1 should buy all Pac, I bought 3 CVs…all planes go to Pac, to deny JapanSydney/Hawaii…till US resumes spending on US4 in Pacific…and then every other turn.Going to Gib with 11 TRs, loaded, makes W. Germany and Rome well defended, and puts pressure on both Axis.
The turn US goes into Spain from Gib…the TRs return to E. Coast.
The next turn, the forces in Spain go into S. France… and 20 units dropped off into Spain from East Coast…
The next turn, both Northerm and S. Italy fall.
Plz keep US planes on the Gib Airbase…so they can hit Rome and land on CV.
TRs, can pick US Tanks in S. France…e route to Rome, if you need more of a punch.
It helps if UK:
- Builds Airbase in Gib, keeps 3 planes…
- Takes Normandy the same turn US hits S. France…prevents Paris forces hitting Spanish mIC.
- Keep 3-4 UK planes, SBR in Syria…the turn before UK hits Turkey.
- Persia mIC on UK2, giving 2 M+T on UK3, will help…as they can hit Turkey…and if you have 2 T+3M… then…Next turn Greece, Bulgaria, Albania all fall… and if there is a vaccuum…esp if Germany is locked in Bryansk… then Yugo, Romania, G.S. Germany all fall…and pretty much UK IPC goes up like crazy.
- As Germany is defending W. Germ and attacking Moscow… Italy building up in Rome… the Balkans will not be well defended…
- US should sacrifice a TR via Iceland to take Norway. .to add extra headache for Germany.
- French troops loaded on TR increases need for more Italians in Paris… so 11 TRS is optimum…for 3 N. African Frenchmen…3 spots
MH
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@Young:
Well that makes much more sense, may I ask what that house rule is?
Victory Objectives and Victory Tokens
Once a victory objective is achieved, a victory token will be awarded, the side with the most victory tokens at the end of the day wins the game. Victory tokens are awarded immediately upon completion regardless of when, or how the objective was achieved, and a token can never be taken away or awarded twice for the same objective. It doesn’t matter which round the game ends, however, a win or a tie can only be declared at the end of a full game round.
Optional Rule: The first side to achieve 3 victory tokens will immediately win the game.
New Research & Development Rule:
Research rolls are no longer used to develop breakthroughs, instead, nations are awarded development rolls when victory objectives have been achieved. Once a victory token is gained, the nation with the corresponding (*) instructions listed with each objective will choose a breakthrough chart, and make a free development roll with the resulting breakthrough taking effect immediately (may not effect units already in battle during the turn in which the breakthrough was rolled). Any breakthroughs gained by either UK Europe, or UK Pacific will be shared between both UK nations throughout the game.
Here is a list of all victory objectives for each side…
Axis Powers
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London
The Axis control London
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Moscow
The Axis control Moscow
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Calcutta
The Axis control Calcutta
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Sydney
The Axis control Sydney
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
North Africa
The Axis control Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Tobruk, Alexandria, and Egypt.
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Pacific
The Axis control 6 victory cities on the Pacific map
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Europe
The Axis control 7 victory cities on the Europe map
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Global Economy
All 3 Axis powers have a combined total of 136 IPCs on the income tracker
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most
Allied Powers
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Berlin
The Allies control Berlin
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Rome
The Allies control Rome
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Tokyo
The Allies control Tokyo
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Africa
The Allied powers control all non-neutral territories on the continent of Africa
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most -
Paris Liberation
The Allies have liberated Paris
(R&D) *The nation that takes control -
Philippines Liberation
The Allies have liberated the Philippines
(R&D) *The United States -
Asia
The Allies control the Burma road as well as Hong Kong and Shanghai
(R&D) *The United Kingdom -
Pacific Fleet
There are no Japanese Capital ships on the board
(R&D) *The United States
i like these, is there a thread containing all of the house rules?
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