New proof that Global Warming is a myth!

[Jennifer]

But it does directly state:

This Arctic Oscillation, as they called it, changes weather patterns all over the hemisphere, from blizzards in Cleveland, to rainfall in Spain, to the frequency of the Eastern seaboards dreaded Nor-easters.  Call it El Nino of the North!

The positive cycles associated with warmer winters, for instance, dominated much of teh 1980s and 1990s.

That indicates it’s much more involved then mearly a hurricane or two.

Warmer winters, more snow, etc…all attributed.  Isn’t warmer winters the main point of your global warming theories?  Thus yea, he’s pointing to a natural phenomena that has a great and significant impact on the global temperature of this planet.

And that’s from Scientific American, just FYI.  Not exactly known for being a biased media outlet.

[balungaloaf]

havent seen it frimm, but does al gore talk about the sun putting out more energy at all?  Normal climate change? or is it against people and people are the fault and nothing else, which in my point of view is rediculous because the earth changes itself and adapts.  once again earth system science.

[Janus1]

Isn’t warmer winters the main point of your global warming theories?

no, warmer climate in general. not just winter, but summer spring and fall. warmer climates which impact global weather patterns, and in the case of such phenomena as hurricanes, increase the frequency and power of such events. all this article does is discuss a particualr phenomena which influences weather patterns. it says nothing for or against global warming.

in fact, since global warming is conspicuosly absent, i think this scientist purposely left out references to it because he knew he had insufficient evidence to support or go against global warming. and the fact that you are now taking his research and bandying it about as being proof that global warming is a myth is an improper use of his research, one im sure he would dissociate himself from. if he thought it was anti-global warming proof, he would have at least mentioned the possibility (being a scientist, he wouldnt have made such a definitive statement as you did either, because he knows this is one piece of information). this isnt really about global warming at all, youve simply misappropriated his findings

[Yemble]

HAHA OLver, good point.

I think scientists are split over how much effect humans are having on global warming.  i think most agree to the warming trend.

[Jennifer]

@Janus1:

Isn’t warmer winters the main point of your global warming theories?

no, warmer climate in general. not just winter, but summer spring and fall. warmer climates which impact global weather patterns, and in the case of such phenomena as hurricanes, increase the frequency and power of such events. all this article does is discuss a particualr phenomena which influences weather patterns. it says nothing for or against global warming.

But a warmer winter would imply a warmer spring, summer and fall as well.  At least to the common man, to whom this artical was written.

Common, you can fight all you want, but eventually you will have to conceed that the evidence discounting human involvement in the global average temperature on thsi planet is negligable at best.  And that could even be attributed to all the extra BTUs of energy we exude as living beings running at 96 degrees fahrenheit!

Would you prefer we assassinate/liquidate huge portions of the population to see if it cools off the planet a little?  I’m all for it, let’s start with the vegetarians (the last link on the food chain in case of global famine), eco-freaks, ecologists, politicians, lawyers and judges…if we need more, we can go with teachers, cops, doctors (not nurses!), and truckers. :P  :evil:

[Jermofoot]

I have to agree with the others there…this was not addressing global warming.

The sun is the source of this planet’s heat, that’s a given.  Global warming concerns the matter of how much humans are affecting the heat once it’s here.

If you recall the impact of CFC’s on the ozone, there is now proof that our efforts are correcting the problem.  So why would a human affect on global warming be impossible?

[Guest]

Jen, this is talking about a periodic cycle and for a particular region.

Thus warmer in 80-90’s, but cooler in the 60-70’s, warme in 40-50’s, etc.

It is not a GLOBAL issue, but a regional/hemispheric one, and it is periodic, it rises AND falls.

The Global Warming thing relies on a completely different set of alleged data, and deals with temps on a global scale that allegedly are on a steady increase not for a couple of decades, but over a span of 150 years.  (please note the alleged in that statement.  The Maunder Minimum explains more temp change than Global Warming claims over the past couple of centuries)

[Jennifer]

@Jermofoot:

I have to agree with the others there…this was not addressing global warming.

The sun is the source of this planet’s heat, that’s a given.  Global warming concerns the matter of how much humans are affecting the heat once it’s here.

If you recall the impact of CFC’s on the ozone, there is now proof that our efforts are correcting the problem.  So why would a human affect on global warming be impossible?

Let’s not get into CFC’s….that’s pretty much been discounted more then the myth that dragons ruled the skies. :)

Problem is, human beings do not effect our atmosphere anywhere near the level required to raise the average temperature of the planet by even one degree.  However, studies like this one show how solar activity, specifically solar flares and radiation storms, do raise and lower our planet’s temperature, effect wind speeds that effect hot and cold times and can cause heat waves and ice ages.

But some people don’t want to hear about that…I think it’s because they view themselves as God and think they can effect what God has made and that makes them feel important…at least it isn’t as scary as conceeding you have no power over the environment as a whole.  That’s why studies like this are shrugged off as fringe arguements and not given the same weight as, oh say the hole in the ozone layer that’s been around since the beginning of the planet, evidentally.

[Guest]

Jen,

While I am not a proponent of Global Warming, Humans DO have an impact, a pretty major one.

It is not just SUV’s and factories though.  If that were the main source of “greenhouse gasses” or whatever, then yes, it would all be BS.

But other cumulative effects by Humans are also in the mix.  For example, killing a lot of oceanic plant life due to clouding the coastal seas with soil errosion or other sediemnts and chemicals has a HUGE impacton convertion of CO2 to O2, since most O2 is created in the ocean not on land.  Also the broader impact of the urban Heat Islands has NEVER been studied.  It is WELL known and hyper-documented that massive urban areas are much hotter than surrounding rural areas.  But what impact do those heat islands have on the upper atmosphere?  Global Warming calculations use arbitrarilly adjusted temp figures to remove heat island effect from the global warming calculations (one of Chrichtons main arguments again global warming in State of Fear).  But is it valid to just exclude heat island effects?  I mean, an increasing amount of land is becoming part of heat islands every day, so don;t you kind of HAVE to take into account the fact that NYC is 8 degrees F warmer than Syracuse, instead of trying to adjust it out before doing calculations (as is done with current global warming models)?

We DO have increased solar output.  That is a GIVEN.  But we also have these other effects.  And ALL effects are cumulative…

[OLver]

Human doesn’t have to affect a lot the Earth to cause big changes. A good example is the methane that is liberated from the “pergélisol” (don’t know the english word, but it designs toudra (most superficy of Russia and Canada is composed of it). A very small raise in the temperature cause the liberation of a lot of methane, wich cause a far bigger raise in the temperature. This is how a human “small” cause can produce a huge effet.

[frimmel]

@balungaloaf:

havent seen it frimm, but does al gore talk about the sun putting out more energy at all? Normal climate change? or is it against people and people are the fault and nothing else, which in my point of view is rediculous because the earth changes itself and adapts. once again earth system science.

The contention is primarily that HUMANS (not Republicans, or Democrats, or Muslims, or Communists) are using fossil fuels to the point of changing the amount of heat the Earth retains from the sun. This heat is melting the polar ice and causing more heat to be retained. The ice reflects heat and the ocean tends to retain it. It was not contended that the energy from the sun is more than at any time in the past. The Earth is simply retaining more of it.

Kilamanjaro used to have snow on it. It doesn’t anymore. The number of days per year that trucks can drive on the tundra has halved in the last decade. I already mentioned the areas where the submarines can break thru the polar ice has increased (I would contend that that is a completely unbiased fact.)

The fact that I haven’t made time to look to on my own is that of over 900 scientifice articles (articles written by actual scientists) none dispute global warming as fact. Of over 600 articles in popular media more than half dispute it as fact. Who are you listening too?

[Jermofoot]

@Jennifer:

@Jermofoot:

I have to agree with the others there…this was not addressing global warming.

The sun is the source of this planet’s heat, that’s a given.  Global warming concerns the matter of how much humans are affecting the heat once it’s here.

If you recall the impact of CFC’s on the ozone, there is now proof that our efforts are correcting the problem.  So why would a human affect on global warming be impossible?

Let’s not get into CFC’s….that’s pretty much been discounted more then the myth that dragons ruled the skies. :)

Show me.  I’ve seen nothing.

Problem is, human beings do not effect our atmosphere anywhere near the level required to raise the average temperature of the planet by even one degree.  However, studies like this one show how solar activity, specifically solar flares and radiation storms, do raise and lower our planet’s temperature, effect wind speeds that effect hot and cold times and can cause heat waves and ice ages.

If you figure a butterfly effect with the sun, then why wouldn’t humans have an impact on the earth?  It’s possible that BOTH have an effect.  But warming is an issue, no matter the cause.

But some people don’t want to hear about that…I think it’s because they view themselves as God and think they can effect what God has made and that makes them feel important…at least it isn’t as scary as conceeding you have no power over the environment as a whole.  That’s why studies like this are shrugged off as fringe arguements and not given the same weight as, oh say the hole in the ozone layer that’s been around since the beginning of the planet, evidentally.

No, people are worried because we feel responsible.  Those who are denying human involvement are probably too lazy to want to do anything about it.  Or perhaps we could ascribe your reasoning of divine origin.  Even if humans had a proven no impact on the planet, would you sit around and do nothing?  What a joke.  You are arguing just to argue.

[Jennifer]

So put some CFC run air conditioners at the poles and leave us alone.  We have climate control technology, use it instead of whining like a 3 year old about some ice melting.  Some of us have seen hundreds, maybe even thousands of pages of reports showing that increased solar activity coupled with standard deviations in our orbit cause heat waves and ice ages to occur.  We’ve seen similar reports in equal depth and length proving that we could burn every fossil fuel on or in the planet simultaniously and not even effect our climate by a single degree.

Yet I’m to believe my personal aeresol can of hair spray is single handedly killing all the fish in teh ocean and causing the icebergs to melt?

[OLver]

@Jennifer:

But some people don’t want to hear about that…**I think it’s because they view themselves as God and think they can effect what God has made and that makes them feel important…**at least it isn’t as scary as conceeding you have no power over the environment as a whole.Â

To me, it’s more like you think you’re superior enough to have discovered what were god’s plans (if any)…

[Guest]

Again Jen, prioving your lack of knowledge.

CFC is not a greenhouse gas.  Chloroflurocarbons are highly reactive with O3 (Ozone).  The problem with CFC’s related to upper atmosphere Ozone, not global warming.

Oh, and have you noticed that, since CFC were banned form aeresols 25 years ago, and since HVAC units have gone away from CFCs, that the Ozone Hole over antarctica has repaired itself?

Now is that coincidence?  no idea.  But we DID stop tens of millions of people from releasing can after can of CFC’s into the air from their hair spray and deodorant… tens of millions of tons of lighter than air O3 reactive chemicals, and now the Ozone layer has repaired itself.

[Jennifer]

@ncscswitch:

Again Jen, prioving your lack of knowledge.

Actually, you prove nothing.  I like using that cause the dandelion eaters use it all the time, so I use it to sucker em in, just like I did to you when you said Bill of Rights should be given to terrorists and then I slammed you for wanting to give them guns. :)

Also, your arguement is a strawman in so much as it is ridiculous and off topic.  You refuse to acknowledge that man has the power to purposely set up air conditioning units thus cooling the atmosphere where we want it cooled then make artificial snow to rebuild the snow banks thus terraforming our own planet if we want too.

Obviously the myths of global warming arn’t true,cause if they were, every government on the planet would be working to cool down the world….then again, we were told in the 1980’s we only had ten years before the world ended due to global warming…uhm…it’s been 25+ years now…when’s it going to end?  I wanna go to Alaska to get a suntan already!  Hmm…Suntans, warm sunny beaches and crab!

[Guest]

Jen… AGAIN you prove a lack of knowledge.

AC units can cool a room, and the expense of INCREASING the amount of heat outside.

You need to look at how an AC unit works before you claim that a bunch of them can cool the Earth.  The more AC units you turn on, the HOTTER it wil get.

As for teh Global Warming time table…  You are a bit off.  During the Early 80’s, there was still a Global Cooling argumetn going on due to deforestation and increased reflectivity of earths surface.

[Jennifer]

Ac works on the theory of conservation of energy.  When you compress a gas and then decompress it you suck energy from outside to heat up that gas.  This is standard Chemistry and Physics, for a college grad, I’m really amazed you don’t understand it.

Basically, if we could compress enough gas and release it simultaniously and in enough sequences we’d be more then capable to reducing the global temperature by tens upon tens of degrees, if we wanted.

Furthermore, with artificial snow generation we’re more then capable of blanketing the planet in light reflective snow again reducing our global temperature significantly.

And if you don’t like either plan, there’s the space mirror plan which is putting up a fine, silver net between us and the sun to reflect non-direct radiation which would result in a 25* drop in temperature across the board.

So give me a break, okay?  If you honestly worry that much about the 1 or 2 degrees this planet has warmed over the last 25 years, go make a PLAN to fix it, get the funding and do it.  Otherwise shut up and let us live our lives because the whole point of this green sh*t is to make lives tougher on Americans, to punish us for being technologically and culturally advanced beyond some smaller nations.  It’s got nothing to do with saving the planet.

[Guest]

And exactly HOW do you plan to compress THAT much gas without using energy (causing heat) to do the compression?  AND, how do you offset the thermodynamic law that compression of a gas heats the gas (independent of the energy needed to compress it)?

You can;t use HALF of the laws of thermodynamics to support your hypothesis and not the other half relating to compression heating.

As for a space reflector…  We can’t keep bolts from floating away while attaching a small solar panel on the space station, and you want to place a reflective mesh tens of thousands of square miles in size in orbit?

[frimmel]

@Jennifer:

Yet I’m to believe my personal aeresol can of hair spray is single handedly killing all the fish in teh ocean and causing the icebergs to melt?

No, you are meant to believe that the fossil fuels being used by HUMANS are changing the amount of CO2 in the air to the point that it is increasing the average temperature of the Earth.

http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2006/04/

http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warming_earth/scientific_evidence.htm

Your hairspray alone isn’t doing it but how many people use hairspray? How many people drive? Use Natural Gas to heat their homes? Anyone using electricity from coal?

Let’s look at some non-scientific anectodal “evidence.”

Think about all the fuel of all kinds you use. Now think about all the other people you know who use that same or a similar amount of fuel.

Now think about all the people in 1850 who used that much fuel.

Do you still want to tell me HUMANS aren’t changing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere?

@Jennifer:

Ac works on the theory of conservation of energy. When you compress a gas and then decompress it you suck energy from outside to heat up that gas. This is standard Chemistry and Physics, for a college grad, I’m really amazed you don’t understand it.

Where are you going to get the energy to compress the gas? Are you going to squeeze it with your powerful muscles? ACs work on the theory that energy particularly heat wants to be somewhere else. They exchange heat. The more heat you want to exchange the more difference in temperature there must be (put simply.) ACs could not do this in a meaningful and useful manner without energy. The sources of this energy is the source of the warming. How much do you have to run your AC to drop the temperature of your home say something easy 2 degrees? Now think about that for ten thousand homes.

@Jennifer:

Get the funding to remove all the cars from the planet? Make a plan to totally re-build the entire power infrastructure of the United States? The suggestion that the US build vehicles that meet the emmissions standards of the rest of the world will make life tougher on Americans?

The point of this Green S**t is not to save the planet. It is to continue to make the planet habitable for HUMANS.