14L Playoff: Hobo (Allies +15) vrs Zhukov (Axis)

[hobo]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 6

Purchase Units - ANZAC
            ANZAC buy 1 fighter and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - ANZAC

Non Combat Move - ANZAC
            1 cruiser moved from 6 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
            4 fighters moved from Korea to 25 Sea Zone
            2 aaGuns, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry moved from Queensland to New South Wales
            2 submarines moved from 19 Sea Zone to 7 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan

Place Units - ANZAC
            1 fighter and 2 infantry placed in New South Wales

Turn Complete - ANZAC
            ANZAC collect 9 PUs; end with 10 PUs total

[hobo]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 6

Combat Move - French

Non Combat Move - French
            2 infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan
            3 infantry moved from Algeria to Morocco
            1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - French

[Zhukov44]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 7

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 6 artilleries, 7 infantry and 6 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 mech_infantry moved from Nenetsia to Smolensk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Nenetsia to Urals
            3 bombers moved from Novgorod to Urals
            1 bomber moved from Rostov to Smolensk
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Ukraine to Smolensk
            1 bomber moved from Western Germany to Smolensk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Rostov to Northwest Persia
                  Germans take Northwest Persia from Russians

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Smolensk
                Germans attack with 2 bombers, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans win with 2 bombers and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is -1
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Urals
                Germans attack with 3 bombers and 1 mech_infantry
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans win with 3 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is -1
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Germans
            3 bombers moved from Urals to Novgorod
            2 bombers and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Smolensk to Bryansk
            3 artilleries moved from Ukraine to Bryansk
            2 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus
            3 artilleries moved from Novgorod to Belarus
            8 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern Poland to Bryansk
            1 armour moved from Nenetsia to Novgorod
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Nenetsia to Novgorod
            2 armour moved from Nenetsia to Belarus
            1 mech_infantry moved from Poland to Novgorod
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Eastern Poland
            1 mech_infantry moved from Germany to Eastern Poland
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to Germany
            3 aaGuns moved from Western Germany to Germany
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Western Germany
            1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to Bryansk
            2 armour and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Volgograd to Caucasus
            10 armour and 7 mech_infantrys moved from Volgograd to Bryansk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Germany to Eastern Poland
            1 mech_infantry moved from Germany to Eastern Poland
            2 armour, 11 artilleries and 29 infantry moved from Rostov to Bryansk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Germany to Eastern Poland
            1 aaGun moved from Rostov to Volgograd

Place Units - Germans
            3 infantry placed in Volgograd
            3 infantry placed in Normandy Bordeaux
            3 artilleries placed in Novgorod
            3 artilleries placed in Ukraine
            6 mech_infantrys placed in Germany
            1 infantry placed in Western Germany
            Germans undo move 6.
            1 infantry placed in Germany
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Western Germany: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Germany: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Northwest Persia: 1 mech_infantry
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Northwest Persia from Germans to British
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Bryansk: 1 mech_infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 49 PUs; end with 49 PUs total
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 54 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 64 PUs

[Zhukov44]

Sorry about the edit above, changed my mind about nwe persia walk-in.  If you want to edit it back that’s fine, just add +2 to Ger.

[hobo]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 7

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 5 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 infantry moved from Tambov to Rostov
                  Russians take Rostov from Italians
            1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Tambov to Volgograd
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Volgograd

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Volgograd
                Russians attack with 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 1 aaGun, 1 factory_minor and 3 infantry
                Russians win, taking Volgograd from Germans with 1 artillery and 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 aaGun and 3 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber

Non Combat Move - Russians
            2 fighters moved from Volgograd to Russia
            2 aaGuns, 4 artilleries and 66 infantry moved from Tambov to Russia
            1 aaGun and 3 infantry moved from Samara to Russia
            2 aaGuns, 1 artillery and 12 infantry moved from Vologda to Russia

Place Units - Russians
            5 infantry placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 21 PUs; end with 23 PUs total

[Zhukov44]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 7

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 4 fighters, 7 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            2 infantry moved from Solomon Islands to 49 Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 49 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 63 Sea Zone to New Zealand
            1 infantry moved from Western Australia to Northern Territory
                  Japanese take Northern Territory from ANZAC
            1 infantry moved from Western Australia to South Australia
                  Japanese take South Australia from ANZAC
            1 armour moved from Shensi to Kansu
                  Japanese take Kansu from Chinese
            1 armour moved from Kansu to Novosibirsk
                  Japanese take Novosibirsk from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Tsinghai to Novosibirsk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Shensi to Novosibirsk
            4 artilleries, 8 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Shensi to Hopei
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Hunan to Hopei

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in New Zealand
            Battle in Hopei
                Japanese attack with 4 artilleries, 8 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys
                Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese win, taking New Zealand from ANZAC, taking Hopei from Chinese with 4 artilleries, 8 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 carrier, 3 destroyers and 2 fighters moved from 33 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone
            4 fighters moved from 33 Sea Zone to Western Australia
            2 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Philippines to Western Australia
            1 transport moved from 56 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 35 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Caroline Islands to 33 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 33 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            3 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from 56 Sea Zone to Western Australia
            1 battleship moved from 56 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            2 carriers moved from 33 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            2 carriers and 1 cruiser moved from 35 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            4 fighters moved from 35 Sea Zone to Western Australia
            2 bombers moved from Shan State to Western Australia
            1 aaGun moved from Shensi to Hopei
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
            1 mech_infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan
            4 mech_infantrys moved from India to Yunnan
            1 fighter and 7 tactical_bombers moved from Japan to 46 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 35 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 39 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            3 fighters moved from Japan to Kiangsi

Place Units - Japanese
            3 infantry placed in India
            2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in French Indo China
            1 fighter and 2 infantry placed in Kwangtung
            3 fighters placed in Japan

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 68 PUs; end with 68 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
            Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 78 PUs

[Zhukov44]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 7

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 4 fighters, 7 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            2 infantry moved from Solomon Islands to 49 Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 49 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 63 Sea Zone to New Zealand
            1 infantry moved from Western Australia to Northern Territory
                  Japanese take Northern Territory from ANZAC
            1 infantry moved from Western Australia to South Australia
                  Japanese take South Australia from ANZAC
            1 armour moved from Shensi to Kansu
                  Japanese take Kansu from Chinese
            1 armour moved from Kansu to Novosibirsk
                  Japanese take Novosibirsk from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Tsinghai to Novosibirsk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Shensi to Novosibirsk
            4 artilleries, 8 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Shensi to Hopei
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Hunan to Hopei

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in New Zealand
            Battle in Hopei
                Japanese attack with 4 artilleries, 8 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys
                Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese win, taking New Zealand from ANZAC, taking Hopei from Chinese with 4 artilleries, 8 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 carrier, 3 destroyers and 2 fighters moved from 33 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone
            4 fighters moved from 33 Sea Zone to Western Australia
            2 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Philippines to Western Australia
            1 transport moved from 56 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 35 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Caroline Islands to 33 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 33 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            3 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from 56 Sea Zone to Western Australia
            1 battleship moved from 56 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            2 carriers moved from 33 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            2 carriers and 1 cruiser moved from 35 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            4 fighters moved from 35 Sea Zone to Western Australia
            2 bombers moved from Shan State to Western Australia
            1 aaGun moved from Shensi to Hopei
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
            1 mech_infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan
            4 mech_infantrys moved from India to Yunnan
            1 fighter and 7 tactical_bombers moved from Japan to 46 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 35 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 39 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            3 fighters moved from Japan to Kiangsi

Place Units - Japanese
            3 infantry placed in India
            2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in French Indo China
            1 fighter and 2 infantry placed in Kwangtung
            3 fighters placed in Japan

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 68 PUs; end with 68 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
            Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 78 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Western Germany: 1 tactical_bomber
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Southern Italy: 1 tactical_bomber
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[Zhukov44]

Edited a fig to Southern Italy because it seems I didn’t understand the sub/amphib rules correctly re Italy (I thought unfought subs can block landings, but apparently not).  Would rather not lose the game because of a silly rule technicality when I can easily defend the capital…

[Zhukov44]

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 7

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 4 fighters, 7 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            2 infantry moved from Solomon Islands to 49 Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 49 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 63 Sea Zone to New Zealand
            1 infantry moved from Western Australia to Northern Territory
                  Japanese take Northern Territory from ANZAC
            1 infantry moved from Western Australia to South Australia
                  Japanese take South Australia from ANZAC
            1 armour moved from Shensi to Kansu
                  Japanese take Kansu from Chinese
            1 armour moved from Kansu to Novosibirsk
                  Japanese take Novosibirsk from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Tsinghai to Novosibirsk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Shensi to Novosibirsk
            4 artilleries, 8 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Shensi to Hopei
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Hunan to Hopei

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in New Zealand
            Battle in Hopei
                Japanese attack with 4 artilleries, 8 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys
                Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese win, taking New Zealand from ANZAC, taking Hopei from Chinese with 4 artilleries, 8 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 carrier, 3 destroyers and 2 fighters moved from 33 Sea Zone to 63 Sea Zone
            4 fighters moved from 33 Sea Zone to Western Australia
            2 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Philippines to Western Australia
            1 transport moved from 56 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 35 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Caroline Islands to 33 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 33 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            3 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from 56 Sea Zone to Western Australia
            1 battleship moved from 56 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            2 carriers moved from 33 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            2 carriers and 1 cruiser moved from 35 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            4 fighters moved from 35 Sea Zone to Western Australia
            2 bombers moved from Shan State to Western Australia
            1 aaGun moved from Shensi to Hopei
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
            1 mech_infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan
            4 mech_infantrys moved from India to Yunnan
            1 fighter and 7 tactical_bombers moved from Japan to 46 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 35 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 39 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone
            3 fighters moved from Japan to Kiangsi

Place Units - Japanese
            3 infantry placed in India
            2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in French Indo China
            1 fighter and 2 infantry placed in Kwangtung
            3 fighters placed in Japan

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 68 PUs; end with 68 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
            Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 78 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Western Germany: 1 tactical_bomber
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Southern Italy: 1 tactical_bomber
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 35 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 6 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[Zhukov44]

Ok, one more edit, dd from 35 to 6, use the file above pls.

[hobo]

well knowing the rules is part of the game… I’ve lost a couple games on rules I wasn’t 100% familiar with…

[boldfresh]

@Zhukov44:

Edited a fig to Southern Italy because it seems I didn’t understand the sub/amphib rules correctly re Italy (I thought unfought subs can block landings, but apparently not).  Would rather not lose the game because of a silly rule technicality when I can easily defend the capital…

Yes only an escort is needed to land.  If a fighter scrambles and sub fights,  then the sub must be killed for landing to occur.

[hobo]

well in case you just waiting for me to move, I was waiting for a response. I’m fine with edits for the current turn if made prior to my move, but not for a prior nation’s move after I already moved my turn. I’d understand and allow it if I moved right away and didn’t give you a chance to edit, but I didn’t move for a couple days after your turn. so basically if you want the edit we’ll have to ask for a call on it. otherwise I’ll move without edits for any of the non-japanese units. again just fyi, I’ve made the same sub mistake before, and on other rule issues LOST 2 games because I didn’t know the rules well enough. losing rome is annoying but not a game breaker for you since you are in total command of the game thus far.

[Zhukov44]

If you want to ask for a call go ahead.

The bottom line is there is no way I leave the capital open if I think there is any possibility you can walk in.

The reason it’s a fair edit is this would never ever happen in a f2f game.  You basically acknowledge that you saw I was misinterpreting the rules and that there would be no opportunity if we both had the same understanding of the rules.

If it was a small issue that would be one thing but this is a potential game-decider.

If your case is that the Russian turn would have been different if the tactical had been ncmed to Southern Italy in the German turn, then by all means replay your Russian turn.

[boldfresh]

hey guys - commander jenn is who would be making the call on this and she’s not been on for 5 days.  if it’s any help, i pretty much know how she would rule on this case.

[boldfresh]

Bottom line zhuk is free to ask pretty please with cherries on top but the decision is hobos.  The ruleset is fully in hobos corner to deny as he sees fit.

[Zhukov44]

Well this is pretty uncomfortable as I play this game for fun and this isn’t fun.  I respect Hobo’s expertise at A&A but we don’t seem to see eye to eye on this.  I gotta think about whether I want to wait for Jen.  For the moment, at least let me revise the Japanese ncms to reflect the drastically altered circumstances of the game should the ruling go against me.

Hey Bold if the ruleset is clear can you refer me to the language you’re thinking of?

[boldfresh]

from the 2015 league rules thread:

9 – Order of Play – From page 11 of the rulebook: “Axis and Allies is played in rounds. � A round consists of each power taking a turn. � Your power’s turn consists of six phases, which take place in a fixed sequence. � When you finish the Collect Income phase, your turn is over. � Play then passes to the next power.”
You may not go back to previous phases/turns of the game and make changes without your opponent’s permission.

[boldfresh]

gentlemen, i can relate to the position each of you is in as I have been in both before.

most recently, in my playoff game with ghost.  my game was effectively over when he attacked my z97 combined axis fleet when i forgot he had the range to do so with bombers from london.  i have known this in the past, just plain overlooked it.  that fleet was way underpowered and had 4 transports and was the entire key to an initiative into northern africa and the middle east.  when it sank it was over for axis.

i realized he could hit my fleet a power or two before he made the attack, but I didn’t ask to change my turn.  i didn’t ask to change it.

and yet it is also true that i would not have left my fleet in harm’s way if i realized he could sink it.

it’s part of the game we play and love - sometimes we forget something we once know or make mistakes.

as i said, i think it’s up to hobo and hobo, having made similar mistakes in the past seems inclined not to go back in time.

cheers

[JDOW]

I am not the rules deputy but I had many many fruitful discussions with gamerman about the rules.

I can just second Bold’s post. It is up to hobo to decide to take the map without German air in Rome or with a tac there, totally up to him.

One could argue that this is kind of the spice of the game, the fact players keep playing although the position is bad, maybe kind of an analogy to chess.
You can have a technical winning position in chess which every engine would win 100% of the time but in chess there are no discussions about blunders. If they happen, they happen and there wouldn’t be arguments about it.

The same applies for A&A. Although I believe that that pill is way harder to swallow as a chess game takes usually several hours, while a A&A game can take several days, thus the price-tag on a severe blunder is brutally high in A&A.

However this currently s the common opinion of the community to accept and to embrace that fact.