Japan and Industrial Complex

[ItIsILeClerc]

I agree with Gamerman!
UK makes a stand when it can take down a lot of Japanese air with it. Makes defending the other two VC so much easier.

If you cannot hit a lot of Japanese air, retreat and you may even be able to take India back immediately if Japan walks in with all his might. Depends on how much RAF the UK has in the middle east and how much Japan has invested in taking India. Remember Japanese air cannot land there if he takes it.

It is not too hard for the UK to return to India with those Indians + European reinforcements having 120+ attack factors from 50-70 units. Japan will have to invest so heavily in holding India and/or keeping its airforce around for defense, that hunting for the other VCs (Hawai, Sydney) cannot receive much investments/the much needed air units.
Because if they do, they may well end up with Hawai taken (or not) while the UK kicks them out of Calcutta again!

[gamerman01]

Good point about possibly attacking/retaking India with the UK stack.  Forgot about that option when I did my reply

[knp7765]

Interesting point guys. I had never thought of it that way. Most of the time when Japan comes for Calcutta, they come very “air heavy” and those planes can’t help them defend. Simply move the British stack out, let Japan move in with what land units they have there, then pounce on them and take Calcutta back. After that, in all likelihood, Japan will have little to no ground troops around and you will have made their big air force almost useless (at least for retaking Calcutta, that is).
I can also see where a large British stack could be useful in claiming/reinforcing the Middle East and helping out the Russians or defending Cairo. Although, it seems like they might be followed by the army of angry Japanese that took Calcutta, plus anything that Japan builds with it’s new factory in Calcutta.

You mentioned extra troops from UK Europe. Perhaps we are not playing UK right, but usually UK Europe has it’s hands full keeping Italy in check and trying to sting Germany somewhere. In fact, there is rarely any collaboration between UK Europe and UK Pacific in our games. Sometimes, if it doesn’t look like Japan is threatening Calcutta, UK Pacific will make some planes and fly them over to help in the Med, but otherwise the two sides are pretty much separate. They each seem to have too much going on in their own theater to try helping the other side. I mean, if UK Europe sends stuff over to help out India, won’t that make them weak against Italy? If Italy is played right, all they need is that one shot where UK is a little weaker than normal and they end up spreading like a plague throughout Africa.

[Whitshadw]

@knp7765:

Interesting point guys. I had never thought of it that way. Most of the time when Japan comes for Calcutta, they come very “air heavy” and those planes can’t help them defend. Simply move the British stack out, let Japan move in with what land units they have there, then pounce on them and take Calcutta back. After that, in all likelihood, Japan will have little to no ground troops around and you will have made their big air force almost useless (at least for retaking Calcutta, that is).
I can also see where a large British stack could be useful in claiming/reinforcing the Middle East and helping out the Russians or defending Cairo. Although, it seems like they might be followed by the army of angry Japanese that took Calcutta, plus anything that Japan builds with it’s new factory in Calcutta.

You mentioned extra troops from UK Europe. Perhaps we are not playing UK right, but usually UK Europe has it’s hands full keeping Italy in check and trying to sting Germany somewhere. In fact, there is rarely any collaboration between UK Europe and UK Pacific in our games. Sometimes, if it doesn’t look like Japan is threatening Calcutta, UK Pacific will make some planes and fly them over to help in the Med, but otherwise the two sides are pretty much separate. They each seem to have too much going on in their own theater to try helping the other side. I mean, if UK Europe sends stuff over to help out India, won’t that make them weak against Italy? If Italy is played right, all they need is that one shot where UK is a little weaker than normal and they end up spreading like a plague throughout Africa.

I agree with you 100% on making Italy weeks early off and fast. To help Calcuta if needed

My typical move as England (if there is no Sealion) destroy the Italain Destroyer and there Transport. Non combat move over my entire navy to the French destroyer and Cruser and bring that extra cruser off Gibralter to my Combined fleet also while I’m doing that I remove my Tactical bomber and place the two fighters from Gibralter and Malta for added dice roll at 4.
I place the tactical in Egypt move all my units from Alxandria to Egypt because the bulk of the Italian army won’t be able to make it to Egypt even with the (2 transports that Italy has 2 crusers and 1 battleship and 1 Stratigic bomber it won’t be able to make a dent in Egypt. The 1 transport I have I move my 1 guy below Egypt (can’t think of the teratory) but below Egypt to Iraq for 2more Ipc and 3 men. I place a Ic in Egypt. Build a fighter in South Africa and a tank there aswell and Force Italy to deal with that looming Britsh navy in the meditranian with a combined power of 1 carrier with 2 fighter planes 3 crusers and 2 destroyers.
This gives England enough firepower that when Italy moves into Alxandria. Englad can desamate the entire land army in Africa.

I’m pretty sure everyone’s Calcutas Round 1 is basicaly standerd so no need to write up

But yes this is how I deal with Italy esentualy what eve they choose to do Ill either destroy there Entire navy or put them in a position for me to take them out Enland round 2

[ghr2]

@Whitshadw:

@knp7765:

Interesting point guys. I had never thought of it that way. Most of the time when Japan comes for Calcutta, they come very “air heavy” and those planes can’t help them defend. Simply move the British stack out, let Japan move in with what land units they have there, then pounce on them and take Calcutta back. After that, in all likelihood, Japan will have little to no ground troops around and you will have made their big air force almost useless (at least for retaking Calcutta, that is).
I can also see where a large British stack could be useful in claiming/reinforcing the Middle East and helping out the Russians or defending Cairo. Although, it seems like they might be followed by the army of angry Japanese that took Calcutta, plus anything that Japan builds with it’s new factory in Calcutta.

You mentioned extra troops from UK Europe. Perhaps we are not playing UK right, but usually UK Europe has it’s hands full keeping Italy in check and trying to sting Germany somewhere. In fact, there is rarely any collaboration between UK Europe and UK Pacific in our games. Sometimes, if it doesn’t look like Japan is threatening Calcutta, UK Pacific will make some planes and fly them over to help in the Med, but otherwise the two sides are pretty much separate. They each seem to have too much going on in their own theater to try helping the other side. I mean, if UK Europe sends stuff over to help out India, won’t that make them weak against Italy? If Italy is played right, all they need is that one shot where UK is a little weaker than normal and they end up spreading like a plague throughout Africa.

I agree with you 100% on making Italy weeks early off and fast. To help Calcuta if needed

My typical move as England (if there is no Sealion) destroy the Italain Destroyer and there Transport. Non combat move over my entire navy to the French destroyer and Cruser and bring that extra cruser off Gibralter to my Combined fleet also while I’m doing that I remove my Tactical bomber and place the two fighters from Gibralter and Malta for added dice roll at 4.
I place the tactical in Egypt move all my units from Alxandria to Egypt because the bulk of the Italian army won’t be able to make it to Egypt even with the (2 transports that Italy has 2 crusers and 1 battleship and 1 Stratigic bomber it won’t be able to make a dent in Egypt. The 1 transport I have I move my 1 guy below Egypt (can’t think of the teratory) but below Egypt to Iraq for 2more Ipc and 3 men. I place a Ic in Egypt. Build a fighter in South Africa and a tank there aswell and Force Italy to deal with that looming Britsh navy in the meditranian with a combined power of 1 carrier with 2 fighter planes 3 crusers and 2 destroyers.
This gives England enough firepower that when Italy moves into Alxandria. Englad can desamate the entire land army in Africa.

I’m pretty sure everyone’s Calcutas Round 1 is basicaly standerd so no need to write up

But yes this is how I deal with Italy esentualy what eve they choose to do Ill either destroy there Entire navy or put them in a position for me to take them out Enland round 2

A very interesting idea Whit.  It is very hard for italy to kill the combined fleet alone.  It seems like the axis will need to use italy to soften it up and finish it off with ger.

[WILD BILL]

Yea Whit, that is something I haven’t seen before (very interesting). If the Italians hit it the combo fleet, they loose most of their fleet, maybe some air (even if they hit & run). They won’t get their Med NO, and it forces Germany to risk air power to finish the job. In the mean time you start bringing over the UK India fleet, and use both your African ICs for men/ships as needed.

I also agree that it could be better to trade India, then loose all your UK units (they can make the Mid East/Russia very interesting). I will normally build mech/tanks early w/India for more mobility. Chances are Japan won’t have the power to amphib you on W India, or all their planes can’t reach. It can be deflating to the Japanese player to see you withdraw, and for him to decide how many units to take into India (I would probably leave 3-4 inf there so he can’t take it with only a couple guys). At that point he doesn’t know if you want to counter him, or keep moving west/north.

[ItIsILeClerc]

I like the consolidating move in the med,
but I must admit I have some doubts about an IC in Egypt that early on. I’ll try this one out next game I play. Usually I build 2FTR+2INF in London and when the possibility of even a surprise Sea Lion is gone I’ll fly the FTR over to Africa->Egypt.

The 2FTR+2INF can make Germany’s victory in London a Pyrrhus one, even if UK executes ‘Taranto’ UK1. Building an IC in Egypt UK1 leaves London with building max 5INF UK1 for defense. 2 less combat factors, but 1 more unit… Might work ;-).

[Whitshadw]

Thanks guys on the Med strat with the ships! I’ll explan with the Ic in Egypt round 1.
If I see Germany’s round 1 buys and troop
Movements aren’t anything to do with a Sealion then this is my main setup as England round 1

It forces Italy to deal with the navy and if it dosnt then one if 2 things can happin I can pick off transports and Italy dosnt collect te bounes or Germany will have to ring down the full force of its Airforce and since it has no ships for fodder then any plane I pick off is one less for defense/offense in Russia.

Also Italy will have only 2 transports it’s round 1 to do anything with. It’s Airforce can’t attack Egypt and have anywhere to land beside his bomber. He will have 1 shore bombardment with 1 battleship and 2 crusers and he can only carry over 2infantry and 2 tanks at most and from Tobrok he can only shoot over 1tank and 1 mech

While my total round 1 defense of Egypt is 2 Anzac and 4 British Infantry 1 AA (transported from Malta if you really think it’s needed) 2 Artilary 1 mech and 1 Tank with 1 tactical

If you ask me that’s a tuff egg to crack for round 1 Italy Runre simulator and you tell me what there odds are.

That Ic in Egypt makes the game for England over Italy and clinches the middleast also.

So this is my round 1 setup for England with no Sealion 1 Ic in Egypt 1 fighter in South Africa and 1 tank in South Africa. Round 2 I simply fly them up to Egypt and continue to add to what ever else I need there.

If your worried about a round 2 push add 1 destroyer into the water off Egypt that negates his off shore BB and you still have double to numbers and can even repel any attack.

Hope this helps guys

[Larrie]

Whitshadw, I believe you may be mistaken about transporting to Iraq for 3 more men. As England you have to fight them as they are pro-axis.

[Whitshadw]

@Larrie:

Whitshadw, I believe you may be mistaken about transporting to Iraq for 3 more men. As England you have to fight them as they are pro-axis.

I wrote this at 8a.m. In a Dunken Donuts ment Iran for the 2 extra men but again it’s at your own descression. If you feel that Egypt needs to be further reinforced then take the 1infantry from Malta and the AA if you think you can hold out and don’t need those troops then ill send them to Iran. :)

[ItIsILeClerc]

@Whitshadw:

(…)If I see Germany’s round 1 buys and troop
Movements aren’t anything to do with a Sealion then this is my main setup as England round 1 (…)

And what about a surprise Sea Lion?
I have seen (and executed) a Barbarossa feighn, just to achieve what you seem to be doing UK1: UK building nothing in London at all and its med fleet dispositioned (or destroyed) in the med.

Germany can still buy 10 TRS GE2 and RAID UK IC+AB (Italy can use its STR (+FTR) to RAID the UK airbase after UK’s turn as well so comes GE3 the UK cannot scramble).
With only some UK2 builds to protect London after repairing its IC, no option to scramble (most likely), the German surprise attack on London is very effective. Particularly if UK has built an IC in Egypt that suddenly falls silent because London cannot collect any income anymore.

I find it very dangerous, that IC in Egypt UK1. But I would consider building it UK2 instead for certain!

[Whitshadw]

@ItIsILeClerc:

@Whitshadw:

(…)If I see Germany’s round 1 buys and troop
Movements aren’t anything to do with a Sealion then this is my main setup as England round 1 (…)

And what about a surprise Sea Lion?
I have seen (and executed) a Barbarossa feighn, just to achieve what you seem to be doing UK1: UK building nothing in London at all and its med fleet dispositioned (or destroyed) in the med.

Germany can still buy 10 TRS GE2 and RAID UK IC+AB (Italy can use its STR (+FTR) to RAID the UK airbase after UK’s turn as well so comes GE3 the UK cannot scramble).
With only some UK2 builds to protect London after repairing its IC, no option to scramble (most likely), the German surprise attack on London is very effective. Particularly if UK has built an IC in Egypt that suddenly falls silent because London cannot collect any income anymore.

I find it very dangerous, that IC in Egypt UK1. But I would consider building it UK2 instead for certain!

for sure you can still do this for sure

12 Ipcs for the IC in Egypt

10 for a fighter for England and 2 more Infantry for England it self.

Pull down the fighter from Scotland and the 2 Infantry and 1AA  Also

Now this is a big also if Italy did not destroy or attack the navy or Germany is saving its Airorce for England’s attack then the 2 Fighters from sea zone 93 do make it back to England (count te spaces)

So basicaly at Round 2 England you see a Sealion comming you’ll already have 6 infantry 5 anti aircraft 1 mech and 7 fighters in England

2 British that originally start with in England
1 French
1 from Scottland
1 you bought from Round 1
And the 2 from the Aircraft Carrier ( If Italy didn’t attack but I can’t see them winning) and if Germany is doing a Sealion they need to save there Airforce for it

Which leaves you to still have your buys for England round 2 and still be reactive.

[Young Grasshopper]

If the UK doesn’t attack the Italian Battleship, and moves all their ships to consolidate with the 2 French ships, I would send every German plane to wipe them out G2.

[Whitshadw]

@Young:

If the UK doesn’t attack the Italian Battleship, and moves all their ships to consolidate with the 2 French ships, I would send every German plane to wipe them out G2.

that’s what I want you to do! See how many planes you’ll loose not only that your not bombing England your not attacking the airfields and Sealion is a wimper and I’ll still have a Round 1 IC in Egypt and still be able to hold England .

[Young Grasshopper]

@Whitshadw:

@Young:

If the UK doesn’t attack the Italian Battleship, and moves all their ships to consolidate with the 2 French ships, I would send every German plane to wipe them out G2.

that’s what I want you to do! See how many planes you’ll loose not only that your not bombing England your not attacking the airfields and Sealion is a wimper and I’ll still have a Round 1 IC in Egypt and still be able to hold England .

Yes, I agree… but I can do a lot of damage in Africa and the middle east with an Italy that has a battleship fleet and zero British boats in the Med.

[Whitshadw]

@Young:

@Whitshadw:

@Young:

If the UK doesn’t attack the Italian Battleship, and moves all their ships to consolidate with the 2 French ships, I would send every German plane to wipe them out G2.

that’s what I want you to do! See how many planes you’ll loose not only that your not bombing England your not attacking the airfields and Sealion is a wimper and I’ll still have a Round 1 IC in Egypt and still be able to hold England .

Yes, I agree… but I can do a lot of damage in Africa and the middle east with an Italy that has a battleship fleet and zero British boats in the Med.

ofcorse you would it all depends In what Germany buys round 2 again they just lost half there Airforce so no Sealion happining. That tells me I can buy 3 fighters for defense of Egypt. At the end of round 2 I’ll have.
A total of
7infantry
2 Artilary
1 mech
1 AA
1 Tank
1 tactical bomber
3 fighters

You don’t have the numbers for Egypt but everything’s else in the med is up for grasp for sure.
Crunch the numbers see what you get

Also let’s face facts Italy is looking for other objectives to complete still Yugoslavia, Greece, south France , Gibralter  etc

[AK_Grown]

Yes, I agree… but I can do a lot of damage in Africa and the middle east with an Italy that has a battleship fleet and zero British boats in the Med.

If the allied player does it right, that giant fleet can sit in the Med.  I’ve only seen Italy out of the Med a few times, and I’ve only been playing about a year.  Most of the time, they sit in the Med and go for bonuses.

Also let’s face facts Italy is looking for other objectives to complete still Yugoslavia, Greece, south France , Gibralter  etc

In round 2?  Why didn’t Italy take Yugo, S. France and Greece in round 1?  Yes, it all depends on the strategy you plan on taking for the rest of the game, but if Italy isn’t going up at least Greece or S. France in round 1…  Is Italy just taking the single IPC territories in Africa?  You start with enough troops in Italy to take S. France with 2 inf/art, Yugo with inf/art/strafe (if Germany hit them first round) and Greece (if 2 transports still live).

[Whitshadw]

@AK_Grown:

Yes, I agree… but I can do a lot of damage in Africa and the middle east with an Italy that has a battleship fleet and zero British boats in the Med.

If the allied player does it right, that giant fleet can sit in the Med.  I’ve only seen Italy out of the Med a few times, and I’ve only been playing about a year.  Most of the time, they sit in the Med and go for bonuses.

Also let’s face facts Italy is looking for other objectives to complete still Yugoslavia, Greece, south France , Gibralter  etc

In round 2?  Why didn’t Italy take Yugo, S. France and Greece in round 1?  Yes, it all depends on the strategy you plan on taking for the rest of the game, but if Italy isn’t going up at least Greece or S. France in round 1…  Is Italy just taking the single IPC territories in Africa?  You start with enough troops in Italy to take S. France with 2 inf/art, Yugo with inf/art/strafe (if Germany hit them first round) and Greece (if 2 transports still live).

it’s possible absolutly just a lot of variables but yeah round 1 Italy can have most of that and possible yugo if Germany straffs it but your stretched thin with te amount of units there also
England will still be pumping out units to make sure Egypt dosnt fall

Not only that while Italy’s whole economy is based off it’s NO and tiger thefirst 2 quickly would be

clearing the Med while also taking Southern France and Greece and Gibralter now you can do Southern France and Greece round 1 round 2 you’ll need to send1 to take Gibralter to make your money.

now if Germany deals with the med fleet with its Airforce and has no ships for fodder then no way possible for a Sealion

Egypt will grow larger by round 3 and go on the offensive and by the threat of a Sealion has passed also more money not all can be invested into Africa and further reinforce Eygpt from South Africa.

[Whitshadw]

Basicaly what I’m saying is follow my plan and you shall see that England will grow strong and quickly put Italy’s hope down and put your self in a situation to cripple them and take the steam out of them and also set you up for further progression to help Russia /Calcuta in further rounds

Take a moment and read over my steps and come to your own conclusions and you shall see.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Whitshadw:

Basicaly what I’m saying is follow my plan and you shall see that England will grow strong and quickly put Italy’s hope down and put your self in a situation to cripple them and take the steam out of them and also set you up for further progression to help Russia /Calcuta in further rounds

Take a moment and read over my steps and come to your own conclusions and you shall see.

Could you please start a new thread detailing your Med strategy? I would like to contribute further to this discussion, but not here in a Japan strategy thread.