The Japan Playbook

[Cow]

I been doing j1 DOW alot lately. it is pretty good. don’t knock it till you try it.

your germany should probably buy 10 inf round 1. and lots of mech/tank round 2. push russia hard.

it is not insane. usa is just out of position anyway. and +23 a round sooner (you DOW japan 2 anyway unless germany is doing sea lion and usa bought 5 bombers).
~

the downside to japan 1 dow is it makes sea lion impossible and buyin naval for germany a bad idea. USA buys 4 bombers round 1. sends 5 bomber to uk round 2 so you probably lose a sea lion attempt at uk. then more bombers come in and you lose your naval while he lands in archangel or something.

so as long as you know you are doing russia with germany and no naval bs. italy does his best for africa (calling in airstrikes from germany when he needs em). japan does his thing, hopefully you don’t get diced in calcutta like send 2x his stuff and walk out 1 for 1 in casualties… :\  you be fine.

[Derek]

@Cow:

I been doing j1 DOW alot lately. it is pretty good. don’t knock it till you try it.

your germany should probably buy 10 inf round 1. and lots of mech/tank round 2. push russia hard.

it is not insane. usa is just out of position anyway. and +23 a round sooner (you DOW japan 2 anyway unless germany is doing sea lion and usa bought 5 bombers).
~

the downside to japan 1 dow is it makes sea lion impossible and buyin naval for germany a bad idea. USA buys 4 bombers round 1. sends 5 bomber to uk round 2 so you probably lose a sea lion attempt at uk. then more bombers come in and you lose your naval while he lands in archangel or something.

so as long as you know you are doing russia with germany and no naval bs. italy does his best for africa (calling in airstrikes from germany when he needs em). japan does his thing, hopefully you don’t get diced in calcutta like send 2x his stuff and walk out 1 for 1 in casualties… :\  you be fine.

USA will not collect the NOs untill round 3 and cant move till round 4.

DOW on UK does not pull in USA lol
why does Japan DOW USA round 2 anyway? There is no logic there

There is no reason to do anything against USA til round 3 or 4.

DOW UK/ANZAC/USSR round 1 or 2 or 3 it really doesnt matter but i dont even see the benefit of DOW USA untill last possible moment.
Philippines is def not worth it lol what 2 IPCs ? and you kill 2 ships…lmao

So you essentially give the USA ~50 IPCs and you get… FOUR, yeah that makes sense (not to mention the 10 IPCs japan bonus that you wont get)
And USA will be MORE in position to fight you not less lol, by not DOW USA they have to stay away from you and in the Atlantic they cant even leave USA Shoreline save one seazone in the middle of the atlantic :P Now USA will go get brazil (6 extra IPCs…for the 2 extra turns theyl have it and 4 INF 2 rounds earlier)

seriously do you see the lack of sense in your argument ?

and the ‘dont knock it til you try it’ is a cop-out, its not an argument, its what gay men say to straight men for cryin out loud

[techroll42]

@Uncrustable:

@Cow:

I been doing j1 DOW alot lately. it is pretty good. don’t knock it till you try it.

your germany should probably buy 10 inf round 1. and lots of mech/tank round 2. push russia hard.

it is not insane. usa is just out of position anyway. and +23 a round sooner (you DOW japan 2 anyway unless germany is doing sea lion and usa bought 5 bombers).
~

the downside to japan 1 dow is it makes sea lion impossible and buyin naval for germany a bad idea. USA buys 4 bombers round 1. sends 5 bomber to uk round 2 so you probably lose a sea lion attempt at uk. then more bombers come in and you lose your naval while he lands in archangel or something.

so as long as you know you are doing russia with germany and no naval bs. italy does his best for africa (calling in airstrikes from germany when he needs em). japan does his thing, hopefully you don’t get diced in calcutta like send 2x his stuff and walk out 1 for 1 in casualties… :\  you be fine.

USA will not collect the NOs untill round 3 and cant move till round 4.

DOW on UK does not pull in USA lol
why does Japan DOW USA round 2 anyway? There is no logic there

There is no reason to do anything against USA til round 3 or 4.

DOW UK/ANZAC/USSR round 1 or 2 or 3 it really doesnt matter but i dont even see the benefit of DOW USA untill last possible moment.
Philippines is def not worth it lol what 2 IPCs ? and you kill 2 ships…lmao

So you essentially give the USA ~50 IPCs and you get… FOUR, yeah that makes sense (not to mention the 10 IPCs japan bonus that you wont get)
And USA will be MORE in position to fight you not less lol, by not DOW USA they have to stay away from you and in the Atlantic they cant even leave USA Shoreline save one seazone in the middle of the atlantic :P Now USA will go get brazil (6 extra IPCs…for the 2 extra turns theyl have it and 4 INF 2 rounds earlier)

seriously do you see the lack of sense in your argument ?

and the ‘dont knock it til you try it’ is a cop-out, its not an argument, its what gay men say to straight men for cryin out loud

But if you DOW UK/ANZAC US can DW.

[Cow]

I am still fascinated that people much such a big deal of bringing USA into war. The biggest drawback for me has to do with China and not the USA.

The people who have tried this opener so far see the merits to it. Some consider it a gambit, some find the game a bit more enjoyable, some hate it, and for others it is just not their style (they prefer to react a little to what the allies are doing instead of charging into things).

It is not insane, it is just hyper aggressive.

Some people won’t play allies against me unless I DOW japan 1. Just being at war makes people excited as opposed to waiting. Otherwise they would rather play AA50 or be the Axis.

The more casual crowd that plays allies generally finds global to be boring, because not being at war in and of itself is kind of a downer.

I developed this strategy for more casual players to have fun and also for the core A&A players to mix things up a bit.

I also hate waiting as well. Also the games get crazier.
~
Plus it is good to declare war on Japan 1 if you are playing with friends who aren’t as hardcore. It is also good to go for a win and fight for a capital, because that is a bit more exciting than you trying to get an income advantage and trying to hold it till you win.

It is also not a bad strategy according to the people before who tried it. They may have lost their game, but it seems they enjoyed the experience and that there are things we can improve upon in the later rounds to make it work.

I mean I had to get a europe win, because on round 8 I tried to take hawaii and I got rolled. I then fought a naval battle and I got rolled. So pacific was game over for me lol. I still won in europe which is nice, but it is hard fightin ANZAC and USA (+china every now n then) making 60-71 income only as japan… but on the bright side USA had to dedicate himself to me. Not to mention if you take more losses than you expect in calcutta… things can get pretty hard pretty fast.

[Cow]

I thank everyone who gave this a shot. Thanks for the feedback as well. I am hoping for a bit more feedback from experience then outright saying what a bad idea it is without actual game experience.

[Cow]

damn I may as well post J2 and ruskie first openers about now… I might wait till summer to finish testing those.

J1 results in faster games so it is much faster to test for results and it is obvious that it is a viable strategy from the games people have played including myself so far.

Also my games have been so crazy and fun since I started doing J1 declaration of war, that I just prefer it overall.

[Spendo02]

@Cow:

damn I may as well post J2 and ruskie first openers about now… I might wait till summer to finish testing those.

J1 results in faster games so it is much faster to test for results and it is obvious that it is a viable strategy from the games people have played including myself so far.

Also my games have been so crazy and fun since I started doing J1 declaration of war, that I just prefer it overall.

I agree, the sole J1 attack I conducted was fast and furious.  VERY exciting game compared to slogging through 2-3 rounds before anything exciting happens.

[Cow]

I am glad to see you had good times. :D

[builder_chris2]

@Spendo02:

@Cow:

damn I may as well post J2 and ruskie first openers about now… I might wait till summer to finish testing those.

J1 results in faster games so it is much faster to test for results and it is obvious that it is a viable strategy from the games people have played including myself so far.

Also my games have been so crazy and fun since I started doing J1 declaration of war, that I just prefer it overall.

I agree, the sole J1 attack I conducted was fast and furious.  VERY exciting game compared to slogging through 2-3 rounds before anything exciting happens.

there are two players in our ftf game group that love a J1 DOW; and no doubt its very fun and exciting…but they have gotten their **s beat everytime by doing this. granted, i’ve only seen a J1 DOW about 6 times now, but…its a poor strat (imo); no REAL chance of winning with it from what i’ve seen.

[Cow]

do they do it the way I do it? objective or calcutta oriented.

[Cow]

as long as you can hold siam and min / max to get as many guys as possible on india along with all your air…. you should have india every game no problem… japan just shuts down uk pac income right off the bat so fast… -7 turn 1. -3 more malaya turn 2 along with sumatra if he got it… round 3 or 4 you can hold siam and get an all in on UK PAC…

as long as you drop the airbase round 2 and can reach india… he has to keep everything in india, allowing you to hold siam round 3 or round 4… then you all in round 4 or 5… usually I have 10-12 ground units with my 6 transports and all my air.  I only lose a couple fighters usually and sometimes I still have a couple ground units (didn’t have to take fighter losses over the tank).

So it turns out real good for japan usually.

USA being at war round 1 is not different at all than USA at war round 2. Just imagine usa at war round 1, he takes brazil woopy do… usa at war round 2… same USA 1 buy same possibilities of movement.

His round 2 buy gets +23, woopy do.

almost 3 destroyers… which you will probably ignore unless they go to sz 97 to convoy italy out of the game or something. still, you have 120 something worth of air in the beginning… usa has to catch up in naval before he can drop men unless he wants to lose all those transports.

europe is strong, killing calcutta prevents a stall against the germany blitz to egypt. plus you need calcutta to get a pacific win anyway.

so that is double dragon right there, the rush is strong. there is no USA fully dedicating to one side expecting to win.

USA needs to put in at least 40 in pacific after calcutta is done, or a pacific win will happen like clockwork.
~
uk+russia can’t stop germany/italy. hell usually america shows up too late. G1-4 buys are what moves into get a round 8-9 win. mech/tank 5-7 and inf/art off minors up to round 6 or 7 (sometimes to 9 or 10) but you get tanks before the big all in. russia gets GGed everytime.

you got to time the rush. worst case scenario you blitz down for middle east and come back up when more fodder is ready off the minors. Then you all in and usually you have all your tanks… all your tanks blitz down and takes egypt. GG

As long as you time your japan to go for the hawaii win, the same time germany goes for the russia win, you should win. in one theater. usually europe.

[questioneer]

I’ll be playing TripleA in a week.  I would like to see these strategies in action a few times.  I’ll let you know when I’m ready- I’m Allies. :-D

[seth4god]

@builder_chris2:

@Spendo02:

@Cow:

damn I may as well post J2 and ruskie first openers about now… I might wait till summer to finish testing those.

J1 results in faster games so it is much faster to test for results and it is obvious that it is a viable strategy from the games people have played including myself so far.

Also my games have been so crazy and fun since I started doing J1 declaration of war, that I just prefer it overall.

I agree, the sole J1 attack I conducted was fast and furious.�  VERY exciting game compared to slogging through 2-3 rounds before anything exciting happens.

there are two players in our ftf game group that love a J1 DOW; and no doubt its very fun and exciting…but they have gotten their **s beat everytime by doing this. granted, i’ve only seen a J1 DOW about 6 times now, but…its a poor strat (imo); no REAL chance of winning with it from what i’ve seen.

Chris, the one time I played with Bryan when he did J1 DOW I was able to take Shankey’s US capital with a small hope of a liberation with maybe a tank or two, but I had Italy poised to drop another 4 trns worth of inf/art/arm + 2 cruiser bombard onto it to seal the deal. UK had no fleet to stop me either.

Bryan and I as axis vs you and someone else as allies this Saturday.  :evil:

[Cow]

So how did your match with chris go? I still think this is a viable strategy, win some lose some. Hell more people are doing it now, which says enough right there.

[seth4god]

Our playgroup, which Chris has organized, is pretty awesome and we get together every other Saturday. I’ll let you know how the game goes, hopefully I’ll be reporting an axis win. I haven’t heard from my axis partner yet though. So I hope he’ll be able to make it.

btw, here’s the group’s site . . . take a look at some of the pics from past game days.  8-)
http://www.meetup.com/Rocky-Mountain-Axis-and-Allies-Meetup-Group/

We typically get at least 10 or so since I started going about 2 months ago. Some, like Chris, are strong players and others are still getting there. You never know what’s going to happen or what strat you’ll see.

[builder_chris2]

@Cow:

do they do it the way I do it? objective or calcutta oriented.

i dont know exactly what these players do; i just know it doenst look like a good idea to me.  i hope to feel the hurt from it first hand this weekend…or maybe i will be lucky and get a win against it and feel the pure joy of shutting it down.  we will see.

[seth4god]

Alright I tried a G1 Barbarossa combined with a J1 DOW twice this past Saturday, winning one and losing the other. The game I lost was when I partnered up with a player I’d never played with or against. The player that I wanted to partner with had to help his in-laws move on Saturday and he couldn’t make it. Someone else in the group said they would do a J1 DOW while I handled Germany & Italy.

I ended up getting crushed in that first game . .  . but the G1 Barbarossa portion went very well. My Japanese partner failed horribly though . . . like I don’t know how you do worse unless you’re intentionally trying to fail. He did a J1, but he didn’t take the phillipines(ever), he sent his carriers to sz26 on J1 were they got killed by the US counter, and US was then able to spend everything in the atlantic after turn 1. First turn US dropped most of it’s money into the pacific, but after that he only bought 2 subs with US every turn for the rest of the game AND he was still crushing Japan. Japan was mostly pushed off the mainland by turn 7, never took the DEI, and never took the Phillipines, he lost all of his trans without sending any escort turn 1 taking Guam, Wake, and Borneo, he didn’t start building navy again until the allies had 3-4 subs in sz6 with 6 more coming every turn from US, Anzac, & UK pac!

I took USSR R6 with only 6 arm + air . . .  I really wanted to wait another turn or two while more stuff came up. But I couldn’t afford to wait with US/UK landings happening. So I stopped sending troops to Moscow and hit him while I could. My Japanese partner decided he hadn’t failed me enough and took Volgo with an inf against my very vocal opposition that same turn. So UK took it right back with the troops coming up from his Persia IC and blocked me from taking it. Now he had 2 ICs and 18 angry Russian inf threatening Moscow. This is when my axis partner said he had to leave . . . pansy.

Had US been forced to spend in the Pacific, having UK produce in Volgo for a turn or two would’ve been ok . .  but I didn’t have enough money to keep both Moscow and Berlin. I tried pulling out of Moscow and setting up a counter for when USSR was liberated, because he had 4-5 axis terr and would’ve collected a buttload of money … . but I had too little to get good odds and it failed miserably. Meanwhile US had liberated S and W france and was threatening w. germany/france while trading n. italy with the Axis. I surrendered after the bid to retake Moscow failed.

The second game was a 1vs1 and that went much better . . . The axis advance went pretty good aside from Italy getting trounced in the med early due to no Sealion threat. After that initial trouncing, Italy was able to eventually start asserting itself in the Med again due to axis pressure elsewhere. Odds are I would’ve taken both Moscow and Calcutta Rd7. On round 6, the Axis outproduced the allies 160ish-130ish The Allies saw the writing on the wall and surrendered since it was 4am anyway.

[Cow]

haha sounds like you had a guy who was just doin it wrong lol

[seth4god]

@Cow:

haha sounds like you had a guy who was just doin it wrong lol

Very . . . he was taking other ships as hits instead of one hit on his BBs. In one battle he had 2 loaded cvs without a landing spot for his air. US hit that strong and got 4 hits the first round. Instead of killing one cv and it’s air like me and even one of the allied players suggested, he killed all 4 air and any chance of maybe winning that battle. And of course US continued the battle and took light losses. He even blamed me for us losing. So yeah . . .  never playing on his team again.

[Cow]

japan is very unforgiving for beginners, that is all. Germany and Italy it is pretty simple, you can always spam infantry if you are in trouble.