I think that’d be a really good idea because urals factories were genuinely a big contender to the war. Would people ever play with it though is the question?
Ideas on a counter?
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What do you suggest as a counter against a G1 buy of 1 sub, 1DD and 1 Carrier. Germany takes paris and yugo and destroyes the UK fleets in 110, Schotland and canada.
Russia is attacked on G3 onwards. JDOW on J3.
Italy on I1 takes gibraltar and goes to alexandria (reinf by luftwaffe on G2). German fleet goes into Med and from there on they help Italy secure 2 to 3 bonusses (no ships, 3 of the 4 territories and morroco to alexandria) so italy is in its 20s or 30s in IPC
Combinend with strong luftwaffe présence its a huge struggle for allies to gain a foothold in gibraltar.
In mean time Japan wipes out China and on J3 or even J4 they start expanding.My question is what woulld you do as allied US and UK player?
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@Cornwallis Answer depends on game you play (and assuming “normal” bids)
OOB: Allies should have 50-60 IPCs bid
You can either: Stack Yunnan and buy 2-3 Russian ftrs to prevent J1 capture of Yunnan thus allowing the Chinese to buy artillery C1 and become a potent land force, which distracts the Japanese
Or reinforce Egypt and the Altantic / Med fleets, couple of extra subs + ftrs will allow Taranto raid to be carried out without losing the UK CV and other expensive units. This will allow you to stop Italy early.If you don’t allow a bid for OOB, I would not play the Allies as the Axis have too much of an advantage.
BM4: Assuming a small bid 6-12 IPCs. Buy sub for Med and or ftr for Scotland. Allows you to take out the Italian DD + transport and reinforce Gibraltar with surface units. That should stop/slow the Italian advance.
PTV: This game has many objectives/territories that favor the Allies so the bid supplements the Axis forces. Those games often have the Italians and the Japanese make rapid gains including taking Egypt. The Allies have to use the larger map and economy to their advantage. The scenario you present is “common” in PTV except the Axis don’t wipe out anyone by Turn 3.
The game is “designed” to allow Russia to fall–in PTV that is debatable, but even in that game the Germans can gain extensive territory and income if they all but take Russia. The real goal for the Allies is to make the capture of Moscow expensive and therefore delay the advance for as long as possible. If that happens, then the build up of the economy over many turns should favor the Allies.
If you haven’t read the AA Warfare primer by @AndrewAAGamer, please do.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/35286/warfare-principles-of-axis-allies-by-andrewaagamer/7?_=1774816439942Also,
The Allied “playbook” thread is here
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/32557/we-need-an-allied-playbook?_=1624678622014GL
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@surfer we play tabletop OOb without bid.
Yes I do know the two links you´ve send me.Stacking Yunan is not possible bc they only declare war on J3 or J4 even. Protecting egypt with UK demands all UK resources so when they switch and built 7 tpt they can do a sea lion on G4 even (has happened a few times).
Good idea of the R1 stacking of yunan but russia can only get 1 tac and 1 fighter on R1 there so japan can still take it.
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@Cornwallis If you insist on playing OOB without a bid, I have no suggestions for you. The Axis will win if played well. The game is unbalanced. The bid is necessary to fix the OOB initial setup–or add house rules.
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@surfer and with a bid. What would you do with allies in this case.?
UK: taranto?
US: KJF or KGF? -
@Cornwallis There was a very interesting thread on best bids for OOB at
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/41788/bids?_=1774822678885Lots of ideas there.
Personally, I’m not a fan of Taranto as the Allies lose lots of material to force Italy to stay home. This allows/forces them to do what I feel is the optimal Axis strategy: support the German advance by preventing weak Russian blockers and protect the Western front.
I do like a sub in SZ91 to protect the cruiser and then be the sacrificial unit to attack the Italian DD+transport with 1 tac + 1 ftr.
The Yunnan stack is a very interesting option:
1 inf Yunnan
1 ftrs in Moscow + Volgograd
R1 DOW, send all 3 ftr + tac to Yunnan, the Japanese cannot really attack 15-85% battle.
Once the Chinese are up and running, the ftrs can go back home to protect.
If you do this, I would also add marine to India as it allows them to capture 1 more territory early. But beware, the Japanese might be forced to DOW J1 since they really cannot take anything else.There is also the controversial bid placement 1 ANZAC inf New Guinea. This is allowed in some cases, but generally the rule is that the territory must have a unit in it prior to adding a unit. However, it does significantly help the ANZACs take Dutch New Guinea without needing a transport. Discuss with your opponent to get their view. Perhaps it would be allowed but there would be an additional cost to allow (6-10 IPCs?)
Regarding KGF vs KJF. My general plan is a) save my capitals that are under attack – i.e., is London, India and, New South Wales safe?
b) stop the Italian growth in the Med as this can get out of hand quickly if unchecked.
c) Stop the Japanese. The Germans can get large but taking Egypt is hard. If the Allies own the rest of the board, the economy stay in the Allies favor if the Japanese and DEI are contested. -
@surfer interesting. What do you do then with the UK fleet in the Med?
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@Cornwallis Gibastion. Make a fortress at Gibraltar with the fleet and (typically) an airbase.
Prevents Sealion because you can get back to UK as a block and all those transports can’t do anything.
Prevents Italian NO.
Protects Egypt as the Italians can’t go without the UK Med fleet stomping them.It will eventually link with the US and ferry troops across.
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@surfer problem is that italy can take Algerije and on G2 luftwaffe destroys UK fleet. On I2 you lose egypt.
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@Cornwallis You do have to reinforce Algeria. Typically you take the Med transport and the transport near Ireland/UK to bring 4 units + 2-3 ftrs, put the Med DD to block bombards and Italy should have very few options.
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@Cornwallis Do a search for Gibastion on this site and you’ll find several methods to try.
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@surfer i know. I´ve experimented a lot with it. Do you also buy UK airbase then?
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R1: buy 3 SB’s (and buy one SB every turn after)
UK1: buy 2 SB’s. bomb W German Air Base with original bomber first turn.
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When both Russia and UK at war together, level both German Major IC’s every single turn if need be.This will grind Germany to a halt. They will have to pay $20-$40 every turn
If Germany immediately goes for Sea Lion due to UK not putting land units turn one, send 3 bombers and 4 ftrs to sink their navy, including all the trns. You can position MED AC at Gibraltar to catch two ftrs, but if that is not an option then buy 2 AC’s turn two so you can send four ftrs. If you don’t sink the trns, you will have wiped out all of the warships and/or some planes and now will have two AC’s (possibly more boats depending on what happened) with a UK ftr, tac, and French ftr blocking the landing.
Germany will most likely not have any boats left, maybe one. They are going to have to send all of their planes to clear the new fleet in 110 so Sea Lion is either dead in the water or a phryic victory.
Make sure to keep Scotland protected - no freebees. And if London does fall, it will be with very limited ground units so UK should be able to take it right back with units from Scotland.
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@surfer said in Ideas on a counter?:
@Cornwallis Gibastion. Make a fortress at Gibraltar with the fleet and (typically) an airbase.
Prevents Sealion because you can get back to UK as a block and all those transports can’t do anything.
Prevents Italian NO.
Protects Egypt as the Italians can’t go without the UK Med fleet stomping them.It will eventually link with the US and ferry troops across.
I just developed a counter strategy to Gibastion for the Axis.
Algerian Snake barely works and cripples Italy for the game and Germany loses bombers finishing up the maneuver.
Operation Felix flips Gibastion on its head and guarantees a super easy Sea Lion as well as a fortress in both Spain and Gibraltar to block USA from coming right in.
You can spare trns to take Eire and Scotland to deny landing spots for American bombers. And London becomes a fortress too with 11 trns ready to shuck inf to London when America comes calling.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/42427/operation-felixI played Italy and to a lesser extent Germany so badly trying out this strat but it still worked as planned. I learned from all of my mistakes so next time doing this strat should be much much better I believe.
I decided to have America go right to liberate London but because of the large amount of units Germany had in London had to spend a few turns building up fleet and enough trns to credibly take London back. That was turn 8. In hindsight, America should have abandoned Europe and gone right for the Pacific. (although prior game, America abandoned Europe to go for Pacific and it ended very badly for the allies so I decided to go London this game… also to a disaster lol)
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Nice
Every version of G 40 I’ve played seems kill Nippon first and kill SSR first works the best. A matter of how to do it tactically, as your discussion acknowledges, is the problem and solutuion.
Not to bug I hope but I think I pitched this to you before ?
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/36945/axis-allies-global-1940-house-rules-expansion
anyway, many more options here and once you get triplea sorted, OOB or a mod, you’ll be able to get way more games/testing in.
Rock On
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@Cornwallis Usually yes, I buy an airbase. But like everything the Allies do, it depends upon the G1 move and what the bid units are.
Generally, the German attack on the UK fleet is a near zero TUV battle and loses many Luftwaffe planes early in the game when it is hard for Germany to recover.
Ideally, I setup for a defense of Algeria so that any German attack is impossible. That often means that I don’t need the airbase since no planes land there.
Operation Felix is something I’ve never seen/tried. Against a game that has been balanced by a reasonable bid, I would believe that the disregard of the UK fleet is a mistake by the Germans, even if it is temporarily trapped in Med. It would seem that the loss of Norway NO, conversion of all neutrals to pro-allied, and the rise of the Russians would make that gambit fail in the long run. The Allies can lose UK early and still recover.
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I played out entire game to see if Felix would be the Axis downfall. As badly as I played Italy (so bad) and Germany doing this strategy it still worked.
Felix kept America out of Europe until US took Norway turn 7 in prep for London liberation which may not have happened because Germany had like 17 inf in London
The Iberian peninsula was an absolute fortress so US couldn’t come usual way.
Russia became a monster during this game which had more to do with Sea Lion than Felix. I learned for future to attack Russia same turn as London to get some breathing space.
Because of the Russian bear Japan was going to have to win the game and they did taking Sydney and then Hawai was going to be next. Allies conceded US8 before London could be liberated
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And trapped UK fleet was knocked down to damaged battleship and damaged AC UK2 after wiping out entire Italian fleet.
German subs finished them off
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@surfer our Germany on G1 buys the sub,dd and carrier and takes south france. So on G2 they can attack the UK fleet with 2 fighters, 2 tac and 2 strat bomb bc they can buy a carrier in S France. Yes agreed it will Cost air but it gives axis full reign in the Med. That´s why you need the airbase on gibraltar on UK1.
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