New Strategic Bomber (for SBR exclusively)


  • The discussion seems to be centered around risk.  Risk to the bomber against damage inflicted.

    I would propose the risk should be low to losing the aircraft, but the damage inflicted would be less.  B17 raids were, on average, only 20% effective during the war.  So the dice roll for defense should not be just a hit against the bombers but a subtraction against the roll by the attacker.  Maybe use 1d6-1 for tacB AAA, and 1d6-2 for strB. 
    That modified number is then subtracted from the damage done by the bomber.  strB do not get the +2 modifier. 
    If modDef roll is 4 or 5, then the bomber is lost.  This would change odds of shooting done a strB to 1:18 and tacB to 5:36.  The build cost should probably just stay same as OOB rules.

  • '17 '16

    @Ichabod:

    Black_Elk,

    I like that you included both options for the 1 role bomber. I would be interested to try both dice levels for the air battle (A0 / A1/D1) and (A1 / A2/D2).

    When do you think this HR idea will be available for play on tripleA? Please make it for the Global setup. Should I contact you when/if I find a bug or problem with the HR?

    If only I had a group who played table top so much that they’d be willing to try out several different House Rules. What really happens is that people say, oh yeah, “let’s try out this or that house rule.” However, what actually happens when we get together 3 weeks later for the scheduled game, is that they’re too “scared” to “waste” time trying out a house rule. We end up bidding for the allies under OOB rules.

    I’m really interested in trying this out.

    Good Job!

    Ichabod

    Barney is working hard on it, night and days. (Literally!)  :roll:
    He is on G40 actually. Later, he will insert options into V5 1942.2
    You will probably enjoy all the options you will get from this Triple A Redesign project.
    I’m happy you feel enthusiastic about it.

  • '17 '16

    @Carolina:

    The discussion seems to be centered around risk.  Risk to the bomber against damage inflicted.

    I would propose the risk should be low to losing the aircraft, but the damage inflicted would be less.  B17 raids were, on average, only 20% effective during the war.  So the dice roll for defense should not be just a hit against the bombers but a subtraction against the roll by the attacker.  Maybe use 1d6-1 for tacB AAA, and 1d6-2 for strB. 
    **That modified number is then subtracted from the damage done by the bomber. ** strB do not get the +2 modifier. 
    If modDef roll is 4 or 5, then the bomber is lost.  This would change odds of shooting done a strB to 1:18 and tacB to 5:36.  The build cost should probably just stay same as OOB rules.

    Actually, Triple A engine does not allow for such a change like AAguns reducing damage to StB roll.
    The actual play-tested is StB A0 C5 vs Fg D1. Bombing : D6 damage.
    But, on the principle you are very right. Damage should be reduced.
    And odds of shooting down as low as possible.
    Hence, with Triple A we preferred A0 vs Fg D1, then IC’s AAgun @1 is the lowest casualty rate we can get if a 1:1 interception occurs.
    Meaning, 25/36 (5/6*5/6) odds of survival for StBs: 69.44% for an StB to survive both rolls.
    To rise this rate around 83% (17% of being shot down), you need 2 StBs or 3 StBs per 1 Fg.
    And giving attack factor to StB increase so much the interceptor casualty rate, that A0 was chosen.
    That way, only escorting Fg A1 can attack in SBR dogfight.

    Lowering to 5 IPCs StBs A0 D0 makes for a single purpose StB which is more willingly sacrifice.
    Otherwise, we return to OOB paradigm: which makes StBs better than any unit in power and threat projection.

    Do you know where you get this number of 20% of accuracy on target?
    I only found casualty rate from 12% to a high 30%, if I recall correctly.

  • '17

    I wish the triplea dice for strategic bombing was OOB. Right now, and probably for a long time it’s been rolling an 8 sided dice rather than a 6 sided dice with the +2 for bomb damage bonus. Maybe this is just a tripleA thing that can’t be fixed…

    This sucks; especially for the 12 IPC costly bomber being risked. You could risk 3 bombers and literally roll a 1, 2, 3 (6 damage), when that should at least have been 12 damage.

    In a way, the bomber only role (and costing just 5 IPCs), I think this actually helps mitigate the 8 sided dice thing.

  • '17 '16 '15

    @Ichabod

    Are you using latest triplea ? I thought this was fixed a while back. I think it’s 3-8 for potential damage.

  • '17

    Yes.

    Ok…so if the dice really only rolls 3-8, then it is fixed. Huh…totally missed this then thinking that it was not working right due to having some times of getting very minimal amounts of damaged.

  • '17 '16 '15

    @Ichabod:

    Yes.

    Ok…so if the dice really only rolls 3-8, then it is fixed. Huh…totally missed this then thinking that it was not working right due to having some times of getting very minimal amounts of damaged.

    Know what you mean. First time I was trying it I never got a 7 or 8 for a long time. thought it was broke. :)

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    Yeah it should be pretty cool, giving players some flexibility to test the bomber concept under different conditions. I think it will be nice to accomodate the balance mod style dogfighting as well as the A0 situation.

    It’s sure to be a work in progress for a time, while we figure out the best way to implement stuff, but at least we’ll have some other options to explore beyond just the standard bid. I’m excited
    :-D

  • '17 '16

    @Gamerman01:

    @Shin:

    I prefer OOB G40 SBR, but only marginally. ** I think if you take away the +2 damage and leave fighters defending at 1, that would probably be fine.**  But then, I’ve only ever seen it as a nice option to have, one that is used sometimes.  For some reason, others saw it as an absolute must and a major problem.  I never really understood why.

    Yeah, see he said in the first place it was minor to him.

    I agree with his assessment here, about the +2 damage and fighters defending at 1

    That’s the same thing I’m saying, really, that when Larry changed strats to a whopping +2 damage, no change was made to interceptors/escorts.  BM made the appropriate change and I think SBR is good in BM

    @Gamerman01:

    @Baron:

    It doesn’t bother you that maxing out IC already reduced the effectiveness of StBs and Fg D2 deters bombers?

    No
    A big factor to me, is that with +2 damage the Strats are guaranteed to disable an airbase or naval base (if AA misses of course)  So the defender needs interceptors with defense of 2 I think, with +2 damage strats

    So yeah, like you said, if bombers don’t have +2, then interceptors defending on a 1 is OK

    Here is a good point about D6 C5 bomber against Air Base and Naval Base.
    It is still possible to not render it inoperative in a 1 shot.

  • '17 '16

    However, here is IMO a cons against StB A0 D6 vs Fg A1 D1:

    @simon33:

    @Baron:

    You don’t like it because it is broken?
    Or because you don’t like the  rationalization behind?

    I can see that USA increase Lend-lease toward Russia because they have to fight a two fronts war.
    I see no issue. Why do you have one?

    I don’t like the USSR-Japan interactions because they provide too much incentive for peace and I don’t consider that they make logical sense.

    Re-SBR. The BM rules are good because they model the reality that unescorted bombers got totally massacred in the daytime without a massive numerical superiority. They’re also good game play wise because it allows a reasonable defence against an SBR. OOB a 3 bomber on 4 interceptor raid is close enough to a wash. I don’t reckon we should remove the +2 damage and reduce the defence to a 1. That would take you back to interception being usually a miss from both sides.

    Probably an issue about what can be done against a lot of StBs bombing.
    It comes a time in 1942.2 when there is not enough Fg to launch and they don’t have that much impact.

    Should we allow that AAA unit in TTy can also have @1 non-stackable 1 shot roll up to 1 per plane max in dogfight phase?
    It would be cheaper than Fg but same defense and would increase AAA usefulness.


    Probably a vivid description of an issue which might arise about Japan bombing G40 India IC:

    @simon33:

    @Shin:

    I prefer OOB G40 SBR, but only marginally.  I think if you take away the +2 damage and leave fighters defending at 1, that would probably be fine.  But then, I’ve only ever seen it as a nice option to have, one that is used sometimes.  For some reason, others saw it as an absolute must and a major problem.  I never really understood why.

    I’m in the camp of seeing it as a major problem. Case in point, Calcutta. OOB, if the UK doesn’t buy an extra fighter, Japan will probably bomb it into submission from J2. I don’t think they should have to. The two starting fighters should be enough to defend against two unescorted bombers.

    Moscow is similar but there you might send 3 bombers + 3 escorts against 6+ interceptors OOB which is a bit unreasonable to my way of thinking.

    Do you think 2 StBs A0 against 2 Fg D1 is a reasonable defense when Japan can easily grow with 2 StBs C5 for each Fighter C10 India may provide?

    The rate with no casualty is increasing 1 for 2:
    R2 2:2, 50% casualty for 1 and 17% for the second
    R3 3:4, 67% casualty for 1 and 17% for all another
    R4 4:6, 84% casualty for first and 17% for five other.
    R5 5:8, near 100% for first and 17% for seven other, near 117% or 1 and 1/6
    R6 6:10, near 100% for first, and 17% for nine other near 150% or 1.5 StBs

    It seems a reason for StB A1 vs Fg A2 D2.

    At least on surface, fortunately it will be possible to try both SBR types.

    I found my old table in Redesign thread, I bumped it here to be easier to find:

    @Baron:

    @SS:

    So if you went 1D6 +2 be TUV swing of 3 or 4 ICPs ?

    If you suppose most of SBR are against IC’s AAA only.
    If you play within combat values Bomber A0 C5.
    Using D6 damage (recommended ) avg TUV swing going to be 2.084 IPCs.
    Using D6+2 damage (OP) avg TUV swing will be 3.750 IPCs.
    (OOB G40 is actually 2.583 IPCs)

    SBR HRules with StB A0 C5 and Fg A1 D1 C10: damage 1D6 or 1D6+2

    1 Strategic Bomber doing SBR against no interceptor

    AAA roll = odds casualties

    5/6 StB survived * 5.5 IPCs = +4.583 IPCs or (D6) 5/6*3.5= +2.917
    1/6 StB killed *5 IPCs = -0.833 IPCs

    D6: +2.917-0.833= +2.084 IPCs
    D6+2: + 4.583 - 0.833 = +3.750 IPCs damage/SBR

    Global40 SBR HRules : 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor, damage 1D6+2 / damage 1D6

    5/6 StB survived *3.5 IPCs = +2.917 IPCs

    5/6 StB survived *5.5 IPCs = +4.583 IPCs

    1/6 StB killed *5 IPCs = -0.833 IPCs
    1/6 StB killed *6 IPCs = -1 IPCs
    1/6 StB killed *8 IPCs = -1.333 IPCs

    Cost 5
    1D6 (avg 3.5 IPCs): +2.917 - 0.833 = +2.084 IPCs damage/SBR
    1D6+2 (avg 5.5 IPCs): +4.583 - 0.833 = +3.750 IPCs damage/SBR
    Cost 6
    1D6 (avg 3.5 IPCs): +2.917 - 1 = +1.917 IPCs damage/SBR
    1D6+2 (avg 5.5 IPCs): +4.583 - 1 = +3.583 IPCs damage/SBR
    Cost 8
    1D6 (avg 3.5 IPCs): +2.917 - 1.333 = +1.584 IPCs damage/SBR
    1D6+2 (avg 5.5 IPCs): +4.583 - 1.333 = +3.250 IPCs damage/SBR
    G40 BMode
    1D6+2: + 4.583 - 2 = +2.583 IPCs damage/SBR run


    Another link toward more developed tables on StB A1 C5 vs Fg D2 C10
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35883.msg1632974#msg1632974

    I found the exact table to analysis StBs A0 C5 damage D6 vs Fg D2 C10:

    @Baron:

    1942.2 SBR Black Elk hypothesis

    Strategic Bomber
    Attack 0
    Damage 1D6, 1D6+2
    Cost 5

    Fighter
    Attack 1
    Defense 2
    Cost 10

    Break even point StB A0 C5, 1D6+2 damage vs Fg A1 D2:  21 StBs vs 30 Fgs: 0.700 StB/Fg
    1StB D6+2 vs 1Fg D2: + 3.056 - 2.222= + 0.834 IPC damage/SBR12= +10.008
    1StB D6+2 vs 2Fgs D2: +2.037 - 3.148 = -1.111 IPC damage/SBR
    9= -9.999 (Diff.: +0.009)
    21 StB vs 30 Fgs:   0.700 StB/Fg
    No FIT (Fighter Interception Threshold), always beneficial to Intercept.

    Break even point StB A0 C5, 1D6 damage vs Fg A1 D2: 17 StBs vs 15 Fgs: 1.133 StBs/Fg
    1 StB D6  vs 1Fg D2: + 1.944 - 2.222 = -0.278 IPC damage/SBR13 = -3.614
    2 StBs D6 vs 1Fg D2: +4.861 - 3.056= +1.805 IPCs damage/SBR
    2= +3.610 (Diff.: -0.004)
    17 StBs vs 15 Fgs: 1.133 StBs/Fgs
    No FIT (Fighter Interception Threshold), always beneficial to Intercept.

    @Baron:

    Black Elk Strategic Bomber 5 IPC A1 D0

    Strategic Bomber in air-to-air combat SBR:
    Attack 1
    Bombard IC or AB or NB damage: 1D6

    Fighter in air-to-air combat SBR:
    Attack 2
    Defend 2

    Tactical Bomber in air-to-air combat SBR:
    Attack 1
    Bombard AB or NB damage: 1D6

    IC’s AAA: @1 against each Strategic Bomber
    Naval Base or Air Base: @1 against each Strategic Bomber or Tactical bomber

    Break even ratio for x StB A1 vs y Fg D2 C10:
    OOB G40 SBR: 10/19= 0.526 StB/Fg
    Cost 5 D6 damage: 16 StBs vs 31 Fgs, 16/31= 0.516 StB/Fg

    Cost 6 D6 damage: 19 Stbs vs 29 Fgs, 19/29= 0.655 StB/Fg

    Fighter Interception Threshold (FIT) and Fighter Interception Gap (FIG)
    G40 OOB: from 1.55 StB/Fg and less   (.526 to 1.55)
    Cost 5: near 6 StBs vs 4 Fgs= from 1.5 StB/Fg and less (.516 to 1.5)

    Cost 6: near 5 StBs vs 3 Fgs= from 1.67 StB/Fg and less (0.655 to 1.67)

    Break even point C5, 1D6 damage: near 1 StB A0 vs 2 Fgs D1 C10: 0.5 StB/Fg
    1 StB A0 vs 2 Fgs D1 : + 2.025 - 2.106 = -0.081 IPCs
    12 StB vs 23 Fgs: exactly 0.522 StB/Fg
    No FIT (Fighter Interception Threshold), always beneficial to Intercept.

    Break even ratio: 16 StBs D6 dmg A1 C5 vs 25 Fgs D2 C7 = near 0.64 StB/Fg
    1 StB A1 C5 vs 1 Fg D2 C7
    1D6: +3.111 - 2.222 = +0.889 IPCs damage/SBR7= +6.223
    1 StB A1 C5 doing SBR against 2 intercepting Fgs D2 C7
    1D6: +2.463 - 3.148 = -0.685 IPCs damage/SBR
    9= -6.165 [Diff.: +0.058]

    Fighter Interception Threshold (FIT): 5 StBs A1 C5 vs 2 Fg D2 C7 = 2.5 StBs/Fg.
    So the FIGap is between .64 StB/ Fg to up to 2.5 StBs/Fg

  • '17 '16

    @Baron:

    However, here is IMO a cons against StB A0 D6 vs Fg A1 D1:

    @simon33:

    @Baron:

    You don’t like it because it is broken?
    Or because you don’t like the  rationalization behind?

    I can see that USA increase Lend-lease toward Russia because they have to fight a two fronts war.
    I see no issue. Why do you have one?

    I don’t like the USSR-Japan interactions because they provide too much incentive for peace and I don’t consider that they make logical sense.

    Re-SBR. The BM rules are good because they model the reality that unescorted bombers got totally massacred in the daytime without a massive numerical superiority. They’re also good game play wise because it allows a reasonable defence against an SBR. OOB a 3 bomber on 4 interceptor raid is close enough to a wash. I don’t reckon we should remove the +2 damage and reduce the defence to a 1. That would take you back to interception being usually a miss from both sides.

    Probably an issue about what can be done against a lot of StBs bombing.
    It comes a time in 1942.2 when there is not enough Fg to launch and they don’t have that much impact.

    Should we allow that AAA unit in TTy can also have @1 non-stackable 1 shot roll up to 1 per plane max in dogfight phase?
    It would be cheaper than Fg but same defense and would increase AAA usefulness.


    Probably a vivid description of an issue which might arise about Japan bombing G40 India IC:

    @simon33:

    @Shin:

    I prefer OOB G40 SBR, but only marginally.  I think if you take away the +2 damage and leave fighters defending at 1, that would probably be fine.  But then, I’ve only ever seen it as a nice option to have, one that is used sometimes.  For some reason, others saw it as an absolute must and a major problem.  I never really understood why.

    I’m in the camp of seeing it as a major problem. Case in point, Calcutta. OOB, if the UK doesn’t buy an extra fighter, Japan will probably bomb it into submission from J2. I don’t think they should have to. The two starting fighters should be enough to defend against two unescorted bombers.

    Moscow is similar but there you might send 3 bombers + 3 escorts against 6+ interceptors OOB which is a bit unreasonable to my way of thinking.

    Do you think 2 StBs A0 against 2 Fg D1 is a reasonable defense when Japan can easily grow with 2 StBs C5 for each Fighter C10 India may provide?

    The rate with no casualty is increasing 1 for 2:
    R2 2:2, 50% casualty for 1 and 17% for the second
    R3 3:4, 67% casualty for 1 and 17% for all another
    R4 4:6, 84% casualty for first and 17% for five other.
    R5 5:8, near 100% for first and 17% for seven other, near 117% or 1 and 1/6
    R6 6:10, near 100% for first, and 17% for nine other near 150% or 1.5 StBs

    It seems a reason for StB A1 vs Fg A2 D2.

    At least on surface, fortunately it will be possible to try both SBR types.

    To specifically adress this issue about how StBs C5 are quite unstoppable and that Fg A1 D1 cannot do much to stop such cheap bombers to maxed out IC (as Simon33 rightly put), here is what I think is more balanced and probably more funny, because there will be more hits on bombers:

    In this link you will find a thing or two about offense over defense cost ratio concept:
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37653.msg1642721#msg1642721

    I believe it is actually the issue at hand to solve Moscow in 1942.2 and India (G40) being utterly maxed out.

    In addition, it allows Russia to be less dependent on Allied Fighters for its IC defense.
    Here is my new values:

    Redesigned Strategic Bomber 5 IPC A0 D0

    Strategic Bomber in air-to-air combat SBR:
    Attack 0
    Bombard IC or AB or NB damage: 1D6
    Cost 5

    Fighter in air-to-air combat SBR:
    Attack 2
    Defend 2
    Cost 10

    Tactical Bomber in air-to-air combat SBR:
    Attack 1
    Defense 1
    Bombard AB or NB damage: 1D6
    Cost 10

    IC’s AAA: @1 against each Strategic Bomber
    Naval Base or Air Base: @1 against each Strategic Bomber or Tactical bomber

    I gave Fg A2 D2 and TcB A1 D1 will be considered kind of Night-fighter interceptor.

    That way, you get a simple progressive A0-A1-A2 vs D0-D1-D2 for aircraft values.

    First, I was reluctant about this StB A0 C5 vs Fg D2 C10,
    but what convinced me is clearly the cost effectiveness when you compared both unit SBR values to their cost.
    It is an higher break even point: 17 StBs vs 15 Fgs: 1.133 StBs/Fg
    Meaning you need to bring 1 StB above the interceptor number to make odds better for attacker.
    Which is not difficult because 2 StBs worth 10 IPCs, same cost as Fg.
    For example 6 StBs against 5 Fgs would give positive odds for attacker.
    When adding costs of each, it is 30 IPCs worth of StBs against 50 IPCs worth of Fg.
    If 30 IPCs was what is only available on both side, it means 6 StBs vs 3 Fgs.
    And 2:1 ratio is a good odd for making significant damage on ICs.

    This fact can be explained by cost/ratio concept:
    Even at these values, StB A0 C5 remains at 0.567 offense/defense cost ratio.
    This is even better than OOB G40 SBR at 0.632 offense/defense cost ratio.

    And we all know how efficient they were for their 12 IPCs.

    So, this is my advice for a better balance with C5 A0 bomber.
    And it is still possible to make bomber C5 A1 as an option toggle.

  • '17 '16 '15

    so I think all that needs to be added is the tac’s defending at 1 then ? Another reason to buy them. Wonder if we should add a fighter option to hit subs again too ? As you pointed out earlier, the US might spam them to whack JPN. Although a lot of games JPN is shut down in SZ 6 anyway.

  • '17 '16

    @barney:

    so I think all that needs to be added is the tac’s defending at 1 then ? Another reason to buy them. Wonder if we should add a fighter option to hit subs again too ? As you pointed out earlier, the US might spam them to whack JPN. Although a lot of games JPN is shut down in SZ 6 anyway.

    And the Fg attacking and defending @2.

    For Fg against Subs, IDK.
    I like how TcBs are able to fight them.

    1942.2 economy cannot probably afford to too much specialized Fg and TcB.

    IDK for G40.
    As an option along StB A1, noone can be against it IMO.

  • '17 '16 '15

    yea already have a ftr air A2/D2 option. We also have the upgun bmbr to air D1. They’re separate so you can configure how you like.

  • '17 '16

    @barney:

    yea already have a ftr air A2/D2 option. We also have the upgun bmbr to air D1. They’re separate so you can configure how you like.

    Upgun bomber, you meant A1, not D1?

    You just made separate toggles for A2/D2 and bomber during writing process?
    That is very good.

  • '17 '16

    @Baron:

    There is a long evolutionary process about SBR rules:

    AA50 SBR
    Fg A1 D2 C10, StB A0 C12, AAgun unit first on Fg and StB, then dogfight phase.
    Damage D6

    Spring 1942 SBR
    Fg A1 D2 C10, StB A0 C12, dogfight phase first, then IC’s AAgun on StB only.
    Damage D6

    G40.1 SBR
    Fg A1 D2 C10, StB A0 C12, dogfight first, then IC’s or Bases AAgun on bombers.
    StB Damage D6
    Tactical bombers cannot attack bases.

    1942.2 SBR
    Fg A1 first strike D2 C10, StB A1 first strike C12, dogfight first, then IC’s AAgun on StB only.
    Damage D6
    First strike means you have to remove immediately defender’s interceptors casualty and cannot roll to hit.

    G40.2 SBR
    Fg A1 D1 C10, StB A1 C12, TcB A1 C11, dogfight first, then IC’s or Bases AAgun on bombers.
    StB Damage D6+2
    TcB Damage D6 on bases only.


    Triple A for 1942.2 (WWII v.5) SBR
    Fg A1 D1, StB A1, dogfight first, then IC’s AAgun.
    Damage D6

    Triple A for AA50 (WWII v.3) SBR
    Fg A1 D1, StB A1, dogfight first, then AAgun unit on Bombers only.
    Damage D6


    Redesign SBR 3 combat values options to be playtested:
    Global and 1942:

    Option #1
    Fg A1 D1 C10, StB A0 C5, TcB A1 C10, dogfight first, then IC’s or Bases AAgun on bombers.
    StB Damage D6
    TcB Damage D6 on bases only.

    Option #2
    Fg A2 D2 C10, StB A0 C5, TcB A1 D1 C10, dogfight first, then IC’s or Bases AAgun on bombers.
    StB Damage D6
    TcB Damage D6 on bases only.

    Option #3
    Fg A1 D2 C10, StB A1 C5, TcB A1  C10, dogfight first, then IC’s or Bases AAgun on bombers.
    StB Damage D6
    TcB Damage D6 on bases only.

    AA50 Original SBR rules:

    Fighter Escorts and Interceptors
    Fighters can participate in strategic bombing raids. Attacking fighters may escort and protect the bombers, and they can originate from any territory, range permitting. Any or all defending fighters based in a territory that is strategically bombed can participate in the defense of the industrial complex. The number of fighters that will defend is decided after the attacker’s Combat Movement phase is completed and before the Combat phase begins.

    After antiaircraft fire is resolved against the attacking air units, if there are any defending fighters an air battle occurs between the attacking and defending air units. This combat is resolved in the same way as a normal combat, with a few exceptions. The fighters have an attack value of 1 (2 if the attacker has the Jet Power research breakthrough) and a defense value of 2, and the bombers have no attack value. In addition, the combat lasts for only one round.

    After the battle, any surviving bombers proceed to carry out the raid as normal.
    Fighters participating as either an escort or a defender cannot participate in other battles during that turn. Defending interceptors must return to their original territory. If that territory is captured, the fighters may move one space to land in a friendly territory or on a friendly aircraft carrier. This movement occurs after all of the attacker’s combats have been resolved and before the attacker’s Noncombat Move phase begins. If no such landing space is available, the fighters are lost.

    AA50 FAQ and Erratas

    Global 1940, first edition SBR rules

    Strategic Bombing Raids
    A strategic bombing raid is a direct attack on a facility. During this step, you can bomb enemy industrial complexes, airbases,
    and naval bases with your strategic bombers. When you damage these facilities, their capabilities are decreased or eliminated,
    and your enemy must spend IPCs to repair them in order to restore those capabilities. These repairs will be made by the units’
    controlling player during his or her Purchase & Repair Units phase (see Purchase and Repair Units, pg. 10).

    To conduct a strategic bombing raid, the attacking player moves his or her bombers to the targeted territory on the map. Fighters (not tactical bombers) can also participate in strategic bombing raids as escorts and interceptors. Escort fighters (those accompanying the attacking bombers) can escort and protect the bombers, and they can originate from any territory, range permitting. They cannot participate in any other battles during that turn, including a battle in the territory in which the bombing raid is occurring. This applies whether or not the defender commits any interceptors.

    Any number of defending fighters based in a territory that is about to be strategically bombed can be committed to participate in the defense of that territory’s facilities. If the defender has elected to commit fighter interceptors, an air battle will be fought immediately before the strategic bombing raid is conducted. This air battle is resolved in the same way as a normal combat, with the following exceptions:

    • The attacking bombers and fighter escorts and the defending fighter interceptors will be the only units participating in this special combat.

    • The attacking strategic bombers will not fire in the battle, but they can be taken as casualties. Players select their own casualties based on the number of hits received during the air battle.

    • The combat lasts for only one round.

    • The fighters have an attack value of 1 and a defense value of 2.

    So, having bombers with zero attack capacity has been done in the history of A&A.


  • I was extensively considering this idea and concluded that having a unit serving to only one purpose is a bad idea. It means less flexibility and more predictability.


  • @Navalland said in New Strategic Bomber (for SBR exclusively):

    I was extensively considering this idea and concluded that having a unit serving to only one purpose is a bad idea. It means less flexibility and more predictability.

    As long as you replace this role function with Tactical Bombers, there is no big issue. I played a lot on a Triple A 1942.2 variant which includes these 3 aircraft, it works pretty well. Strategic are used as strategic, that way.


  • I prefer having one multipurpose unit instead of two specialized units.


  • @Navalland said in New Strategic Bomber (for SBR exclusively):

    I prefer having one multipurpose unit instead of two specialized units.

    You are the master on your table.
    All these are about an issue which can appear as a matter of taste.

    Fighter are not use the same way as bomber, but if you want a single kind of Aircraft like 1914, it is up to you.

    The issue on this thread was about never find relevant to use Strategic bombers as strategic bomber in game. Being a suboptimal strategy.

    So, how can a Strategic bomber can be use as such like it was in WW2?

    Black Elk suggested an idea, which I find more interesting in combination with introducing Tactical bombers from G40 game.

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