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AARe v quick sub question



  • If opponent detects your subs and then chooses to let all his destroyers go in the course of a battle, your subs immediately regain their special abilities (submerge, opening round fire) for the remainder of that battle, right?

    Actually that brings up another question now that I think about it. If the above is true, can subs submerge of the end of the round which opponent sacrifices his destroyers? I would assume not.

    Trusty


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I don’t believe so, because after the first round of battle, all submarines that remain are considered detected.



  • @Trusty:

    If opponent detects your subs and then chooses to let all his destroyers go in the course of a battle, your subs immediately regain their special abilities (submerge, opening round fire) for the remainder of that battle, right?

    Actually that brings up another question now that I think about it. If the above is true, can subs submerge of the end of the round which opponent sacrifices his destroyers? I would assume not.

    Trusty

    AAR rules take precendence.  The only round that detection affects is the very first round.  Detection determines if a sub can dive after opening fire in the first round of battle.  Detection does not affect first strike capability.

    As Jen points out, at the END of the first round of battle, all subs are considered detected.  However, notmal AAR rules apply with respect to enemy destroyers and submerge capability.  That is, if there is an enemy DD, your sub can not dive.  If there is no enemy DD oresent, you may dive at the end of a round of battle



  • Thanks pros

    In real life, this presumably hangs on the question of whether a fleet can continue to track a sub after the DDs initial location of it though I wouldn’t know such things

    Its useful to be reminded that Detection only affects the first round- I keep forgetting that.

    So my q devolves to a simple AAR one (since in subsequent rounds subs are necessarily “detected” and that becomes a red herring)

    I could’t find any mention of the specific scenario at hand (DD starts but is lost in combat) which is why I posted

    So Axis Roll you are saying subs can submerge once there is no longer  a DD present- presumbaly that means they also get opening round fire?

    Trusty



  • @Trusty:

    Thanks pros

    In real life, this presumably hangs on the question of whether a fleet can continue to track a sub after the DDs initial location of it though I wouldn’t know such things

    Its useful to be reminded that Detection only affects the first round- I keep forgetting that.

    So my q devolves to a simple AAR one (since in subsequent rounds subs are necessarily “detected” and that becomes a red herring)

    I could’t find any mention of the specific scenario at hand (DD starts but is lost in combat) which is why I posted

    So Axis Roll you are saying subs can submerge once there is no longer  a DD present- presumbaly that means they also get opening round fire?

    After the first round (where detection is involved), all standard LHTR rules with resepct to Subs and DDs are in effect.  What does LHTR say?

    @LHTR:

    Destroyers

    Special Abilities:
    Submarine Disruption: A destroyer cancels the special abilities of submarines (see Submarines,
    below). Enemy submarines cannot move freely through a sea zone containing your destroyer. If
    you have a destroyer in a combat, the casualties of enemy submarines can return fire. Also,
    enemy submarines cannot submerge while your destroyer is present on the battle board.

    Submarines

    Special Abilities:
    Treat Hostile Sea Zones as Friendly: A submarine can move through a sea zone that contains
    enemy units. However, if it ends its combat move in a hostile sea zone, combat will occur. A
    submarine cannot end a noncombat move in a hostile sea zone. If a submarine enters a sea zone
    containing an enemy destroyer, it must end its movement there.
    Sneak Attack: Submarines always fire in the opening fire step, whether on attack or defense.
    They can fire only on sea units. Casualties from this attack will be destroyed before they can
    return fire, unless an enemy destroyer is present on the battle board. (Any sea or air unit can hit a
    submarine.)
    Submerge: An attacking submarine may withdraw from combat after all attacker and defender
    units have fired, at the same time as all other attacking units withdraw. It may retreat on the
    surface to a sea zone from which at least one attacking sea unit came. If it retreats on the surface,
    it must retreat to the same space as all other sea units that retreat. One or more attacking
    submarines may also withdraw by submerging.
    Defending submarines may withdraw by submerging after any round of combat. One or more
    defending submarines may submerge, regardless of whether there are any other defending units
    left in play.
    If any submarine submerges, it is returned to the game board, and is placed on its side to indicate
    it is submerged. It remains submerged until the end of the noncombat move phase. The submarine
    then resurfaces regardless of whether enemy units are still there; this does not trigger combat. The
    presence of a submerged submarine does not make a sea zone hostile, so enemy sea units may
    move freely into or through any sea zone containing a submerged submarines, and enemy
    transports may load or offload there.
    The presence of an enemy destroyer on the battle board prevents a submarine from submerging
    but does not prevent an attacking submarine from retreating on the surface.

    The answers are in there.  No DD, sub hurts, can w/d by submerging



  • Thanks axis_roll!

    Trusty


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