Germany First turn buys



  • I always buy 3 research dice for rockets, and then five tanks, three tanks and a fighter, or 1:1 ratio artillery infantry, depending on Russia.

    What do you buy?



  • 1 AC (Baltic), 8 INF.



  • No rockets?

    The AC is to prevent invasions, I would assume.



  • The AC is so that the baltic Fleet is not immediately killed by UK air power at little or no cost to UK.

    I spend 16 IPC’s for an AC so that I can keep 36 IPC’s of naval units alive to see where I can use them 🙂

    Often times that is simply as a first line of defense against UK assaults in Germany and Eastern, but it does help keep UK honest since they have to defend their fleet… especialy as long as I have both fleet AND air force.



  • You play against stronger competition than I do, but that makes a lot of sense. I should try that next time.

    Rockets on Germany’s second turn, then?



  • I do not play with Techs.

    Our site Tournaments (and most other Tournaments) exclude Tech, so I prefer to keep my skills sharp and play no-tech games.

    So on G2, I am usually buying INF/ART, and perhaps a FIG.


  • 2007 AAR League

    1 AC and 8 Inf as well and I don’t realy research much either … as Germany I think you need to get a strong advantage in the beginning and if you waste 15 IPCs trying to get rockets and fail then thats 5 Inf you don’t have on the front.



  • Mass rockets used to be a broken German strat until the FAQs limited income loss to territory value per turn, and limited number of AA guns firing to 1 per territory.

    It’s still pretty strong, but you need to be real careful.  LHTR delays the tech for a turn, which is pretty critical.

    If you go 2 tech dice, you can still afford a carrier for the Baltic and some infantry.  (MOSTLY infantry, one or two artillery tops)

    If you go 4 tech dice, you could POSSBILY get away with getting a carrier, but then you’d have to have an African bid.  An African bid lets you move the Med fleet west, and unite off W. Europe on G2, which lets you empty out W. Europe, which gives you more units against Russia.

    The other thing you can try with a 4 tech dice bid is to send the Baltic fleet west immediately.  UK and US will blow up most of the Baltic fleet, but a bit of bad luck for the Allies will give you a larger Med fleet.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    IC for W. Europe
    AC for SZ 5
    3 Infantry

    RD 2:

    AC for SZ 7
    Infantry

    RD 3:

    1 SS
    2 TRN
    Infantry

    RD 4:

    If England isn’t shut up tighter then a frogs arse, you invade it in force.  Otherwise, feel free to move the fleet to SZ 6 and start shuffling infantry through Finland.  When it appears the English or Americans are strong enough to sink your fleet.  Retreat the fighters, do as much damage as you can with the rest and hopefully Japan and Germany have Russia squeezed to almost oblivioun.

    Though, I’m thinking the 10 Artillery followed by 10 Infantry and almost straight tanks is a good idea too.



  • Adopting my crazy idea of the Western IC and massed Kreigsmarine off France?  :mrgreen:


  • 2007 AAR League

    Round 1 purchs:
    Infantry (13-15 depending on bids…)

    or

    AC + infs


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    Adopting my crazy idea of the Western IC and massed Kreigsmarine off France?  :mrgreen:

    Yea.  It’s worked splendidly three times now. 🙂  Russia was completely crippled before the Allies got strong enough to sink the fleet, and even when they did, they had a full round of chasing me before they did sink it.

    Meanwhile, German and Japanese Armies were massed to take Moscow.

    In one game it hasn’t worked out well.

    England took Borneo and New Guinea on R1 and sunk a majority of Japanese shipping with no loss at all.  It took 4 rounds just to recover and in that case, your entire lead with Germany’s shot.  It only takes 4 rounds for the Allies to mass a big enough fleet and Airforce with one nation to sink your fleet.  (Assuming you only divert 8 IPC a round to the zone buying submarines/transports.)



  • I haven’t tried the WE IC yet but the next game I play with my friends I will.  I think it holds a lot of promise and it seems Jennifer has had some success.



  • Just be sure to give credit for the concept to the proppe source  :evil:


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    According to some I never give anyone credit, why would I start with you, dear? 🙂

    Seriously, yes, I learned of the idea from you first.  I personally felt it was the stupidest idea I’d ever heard and moved to test it out in realistic tests to justify the slam I was going to give it….much to my surprise I found Russia capitualiating 75% of the time to over whelming Japanese and German pressure with the Allied Fleet cowering in Sea Zone 8 until round 4 or 5.  (Depending on if I retreated to SZ 5 or not, and whether or not I pulled my fighters off the carrier(s).  I did have 2 carriers once…that was very interesting!)



  • It was a hairbrained idea (like the Candian Shield), and like Shield, it had the potential to work if never seen before 🙂

    But I know too many ways to counter my own hair brained idea for me to put much more than “novelty” as a characterization of it.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    So do I!

    The best counter I can think of, even though it has YET to be used against me is the creation of British fighters.

    England should try for a hat trick.

    UK 1:  Buy 3 Fighters. (This is enough to sink the Baltic Fleet, but not a unified fleet, though, it might be possible to do with 2 transports and a battleship added in, havn’t run the number or tried it yet though.)

    Attack Borneo with 2 infantry
    Attack New Guinea with 2 infantry

    (Decent shot at getting both, net gain 5 IPC for at least 2 rounds, vs Egypt which will cost you everything on the German counter attack.)
    Sub/Fighter to Jap Sub (Fighter lands on US carrier)

    AC/DD to Jap Tran.

    This forces Japan to either sink the British fleet or the American fleet at much higher losses or ignore Asia for the most part as all naval vessles and fighters are engaged sinking boats that were never intended to survive in the first place.

    Second round, the Germans unit.  Possibly adding an extra submarine to the joined fleet.  If they add much more they’ll strip needed assets from teh Russian front defeating the purpose of the fleet delaying the allies.

    UK buys more fighters.  If it appears they can sink the fleet with combined assets, they do.  If not, then they don’t and move their fleet to safety. (Probably SZ 4 since they can shuffle troops to Karelia/Arch then.)

    How can Germany counter?  Buy another carrier.  Buy a destroyer instead of a Submarine (since Submarines add very little to fleet defense against aircraft.)  They can easily defend if they want too.  The problem is the Russians are not going to sit there and wait for Germany to become the only dominant force in the Atlantic before pressing hom their new advantage.

    You have a better idea?



  • Standard Sea Lion block works nicely…

    Also US/UK blockage of Gibraltar with a joint T1 landing in Algeria prevents fleet unification.

    US SBR campaign build also works quite nicely to kill the increased fleet.

    And of course Russia can just fire a spear at Berlin… West Russia Stack, lurch forward, lurch forward, lurch forward.  Germany can’t afford to defend AND keep that fleet alive.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yea, that’s similar to the lines I was thinking.

    If you block the unification, if only for one round, you are capable of taking your 5 fighters, 1 bomber to the northern section of the fleet and destroying it completely.  Thus negating any potential rewards for fleet unification.



  • @ncscswitch:

    Standard Sea Lion block works nicely…

    Also US/UK blockage of Gibraltar with a joint T1 landing in Algeria prevents fleet unification.Â

    US SBR campaign build also works quite nicely to kill the increased fleet.

    And of course Russia can just fire a spear at Berlin… West Russia Stack, lurch forward, lurch forward, lurch forward.  Germany can’t afford to defend AND keep that fleet alive.

    Germany starts with 25 Inf 10 Armor 4 art and 6 fighters
    USSR starts with 24 Inf (4 of which are 4 spaces away from the front) 4 armor 2 art 2 fighters

    Even assuming 8 INF a turn, that equals the USSR build. Germany still has 16 IPC A TURN to use for a fleet (assuming the fleet will prevent allied landings).

    Germany has “equal” infantry, but has more fighters. Presumably it has additional africa income, and USSR has a bit less from Japan’s takings.

    How is it that a German fleet cannot survive if you invest in it?

    The allies need transports. 8 IPC, no attack, 1 defense. If they buy subs, the Germans are happy, because subs do not aid the allies in taking land.

    Germany doesnt need land. Subs are 8 IPC too, but attack/defend at at 2/2.

    From this perspective. 1 sub = combat value of 2 transports. So 16 IPC spent would = 32 spent by the allies.

    Squirecam



  • First off, Russia is ABOVE 24 IPC for several turns in most games (West Russia taken and held, Ukraine traded, sometimes Belo also).  And they are slow to lose IPC in the east (1 a turn max, if played correctly)

    Germany may have a mass of forces, but they ahve a lot to defend, and on 2 fronts.

    If the US and UK staged to SZ12, Germany is risking Norway, Western and Southen for amphib (Algeria already lost, Libya and any otehr Africa gains also at risk).

    Of Germany’s starting forces, they lose 6 INF, 2 ART, 2 ARM and a FIG before they ever get to use them (standard West Russia/Ukraine R1).
    If on G1 they do a Western IC AND an AC in the Baltic (to prevent loss of the Baltic Fleet to Allied air before they can even sail to Western), that leaves them $9 for land units.

    Against that, Russia is sending the WR stack.

    And if Germany turns to face it, the US and UK strike… Western, Navy, or Southern.

    And that is BAD for Germany



  • @ncscswitch:

    First off, Russia is ABOVE 24 IPC for several turns in most games (West Russia taken and held, Ukraine traded, sometimes Belo also).  And they are slow to lose IPC in the east (1 a turn max, if played correctly)

    Germany may have a mass of forces, but they ahve a lot to defend, and on 2 fronts.

    If the US and UK staged to SZ12, Germany is risking Norway, Western and Southen for amphib (Algeria already lost, Libya and any otehr Africa gains also at risk).

    Of Germany’s starting forces, they lose 6 INF, 2 ART, 2 ARM and a FIG before they ever get to use them (standard West Russia/Ukraine R1).
    If on G1 they do a Western IC AND an AC in the Baltic (to prevent loss of the Baltic Fleet to Allied air before they can even sail to Western), that leaves them $9 for land units.

    Against that, Russia is sending the WR stack.

    And if Germany turns to face it, the US and UK strike… Western, Navy, or Southern.

    And that is BAD for Germany

    1 - Forget the Western Europe IC. Not part of this discussion.
    2 - Germany will NOT always lose 6 INF 2 ART 2 ARM. What about the bid??? What if a 1-2 INF bid is placed in Ukraine?
    3 - If you count Germany’s losses, you have to count Russia’s too.
    4 - Germany is not going to allow the USA/UK fleet to live.

    I thought a few weeks ago we cleared this point up. Germany can merge if it wants to. Which is going to prevent a strike into SE or WE.

    Lets begin with this though. Germany has 2 inf bid.

    Hypo 1 - 2 inf bid Ukraine
    Hypo 2 - 1 inf UKR, 1 Inf Lybia.

    What does your USSR do?

    Squirecam



  • On Hypo2 I am stillhitting Ukraine.

    On Hypo 1, I am probably STILL going to go for it, and have a 90% chance to take it, 97% to kill everything there.

    As for teh link… staging to SZ12 as both UK and US will block the link.  It may be expensive, but it blocks the link.

    And in my post above, it was as a direct counter to the AC and IC G1 build, which allows Russia to go “medieval” on Germany for several turns.  :mrgreen:



  • @ncscswitch:

    On Hypo2 I am stillhitting Ukraine.

    On Hypo 1, I am probably STILL going to go for it, and have a 90% chance to take it, 97% to kill everything there.

    As for teh link… staging to SZ12 as both UK and US will block the link.  It may be expensive, but it blocks the link.

    And in my post above, it was as a direct counter to the AC and IC G1 build, which allows Russia to go “medieval” on Germany for several turns.   :mrgreen:

    Battle sim says only 70% for allies.

    21 vs 19 is not a very big edge.

    Squirecam


  • 2007 AAR League

    @Jennifer:

    Attack Borneo with 2 infantry
    Attack New Guinea with 2 infantry

    You are daring! Sounds like a great move if it works out, but this has the potential to backfire in a big way. You are 1:3 in each NOT to take the islands(2 inf vs 1), clearing the islands has little to no purpose - the objective is to capture. If you fail on both you have effectively lost Australia, NZ, Africa, India and the UK pacific fleet. All on UK1…


Log in to reply
 

20th Anniversary Give Away

In January 2000 this site came to life and now we're celebrating our 20th Anniversary with a prize giveaway of 30+ prizes. See this link for the list of prizes and winners.
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys
T-shirts, Hats, and More

Suggested Topics

  • 5
  • 32
  • 9
  • 12
  • 18
  • 15
  • 6
  • 27
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

33
Online

14.9k
Users

35.7k
Topics

1.5m
Posts