• Being “made fun of” is a small price to pay compared to the price Jesus paid for us.

    It could be worse……much worse.

    Rob.

  • 2007 AAR League

    even being killed for believing is better then the alternative no questions asked. its not even a debate.


  • @MauserBob:

    Being “made fun of” is a small price to pay compared to the price Jesus paid for us.

    It could be worse……much worse.

    Rob.

    The price Jesus paid ?? He was amongst the luckiest son of a bitches to ever walk the planet, next to Hugh Hefner. He merely had a bad day there at the end.


  • ‘Merely’…indeed.

    Rob.


  • I believe in evolution - I’ve read about it, I understand the concept.  The bible has some interesting things to say (from “respect your parents” to “if you don’t marry your brother’s widow, give her a shoe”), but I don’t take it as fact.  The common problem with both is that, as humans, we are trying to understand our world from a couple of points of view.  Some like grounded/right hand thought - some like open/left hand ideas.  We personify things and suggest that things are in such an order and that they must be understood.  I don’t agree. I think too many people look for meaning or order when it’s not to be found.  We try to explain the unexplainable, as if there was a human element in everything we look at.  Face it - not everything is about us.

    I’m pretty skeptical when it comes to things.  Even science matters - I don’t always swallow what I’m told.  That’s why some of the approaches made with religion really turn me off.  It’s not really my style - maybe it’s yours, more power to you.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not anti-Christian, I just think many people have lost sight of its intent and have diverted their path.  It seems to me that the ideal application of many of the major religions have similar aims, but rarely do someone follow them.  Can’t blame them, it’s hard to - this world is crazy.

    But in terms of Evo vs. Creation, I’ll say again that they aren’t mutually exclusive - they aren’t trying to explain the same thing.  It’s possible to believe both - it’s also possible that both are wrong.  Only that evolution has evidence, and Creation has none.  It boggles me that someone would argue that there’s nothing going for evolution (which is asinine), yet insists that there is a God, who had a son (and he died for our sins), and there’s not one doubt about it.  Mere hearsay, but believe what you like - it’s your right.  Following some of the assertions made here: if God made this grand and beautiful world, why did  he make so many terrible things too?  There’s no right answer to that.  I would just have to mount question after question to some of the blind declarations - that is my style - because Christianity just isn’t grounded enough for me to believe everything right off.

    Yet, when I stop to think about it, it really doesn’t matter which is correct.  The fact of the matter is that we are here, and, by the looks of it, it’ll be a while before we go.  Why not focus on something more important, say, starvation around the world?


  • screw starvation around the world!! you feed the lazy bastards!!

  • 2007 AAR League

    Jermofoot…

    What did he make that was so terrible?

    God did not create “sins” or all the evil things associated with sins.

    all things threw him are good. and when it comes to God. It’s either you believe in him and what he did for you or you don’t believe in it at all. The bible warns about being in the “middle”.

    evolution has not been proved and will not be proved as a fact.

    I am not trying to understand the world as you may think persay… in fact its all going to burn one day anyway.

    theres to many religions that call themselves “christians” as well which is not good.

    the only thing that has evolved is humanity’s stupidty and lack of awareness into the things of God + whatever the Nuclear waste did to the surrounding blast sites back in the day…sure sometihng probably evolved there…mutated whatever…


  • @MADDOGG:

    screw starvation around the world!! you feed the lazy bastards!!

    I’d love to.  Think how the world would view us then.  And it’s entirely possible; doubtful, though.

    NoMercy-

    If God is omniscient, and the creator of all things, then why do we have anything negative at all in this world?  As example, I could suggest still birth, hurricanes, tsunamis, drought, miserable conditions for many of the earth’s people, war…and much more.  Why can’t we attribute the existence of sin to it as well?  It seems to me that if God were benevolent, we could be spared quite a bit of pain and suffering.  Why wasn’t atheism & disbelief taken into account?  Why should I be punished for not believing in something?

    Don’t bother answering - as I said, there’s no answer, at least a correct one.  There’s really no question either.  Look, God exists because you believe in such a thing.  But it doesn’t mean that everyone holds the same idea.


  • @NoMercy:

    God did not create “sins” or all the evil things associated with sins.

    If you believe in Creation, then God created it all… sin, Satan, ALL of it.  If it is indeeds God’s creation, then God is the one who put AIDS, starvation, death, disease, pain, damnation, and everythign else into the Universe.

    You can;t have it both ways by saying that he Created Everything, then leave him off the hook for all the crap.

  • 2007 AAR League

    well Switich…

    if thats the case…

    lets say you had a kid and he went and blew up a building for a example… and it was sometihng he decided to do on his own.

    I want you and and Angel held responsible for this because you helped create this kid according to your reasoning.

    you have to remember God is perfect, he created the angel Lucifer WHICH on his own free will choose a wrong path and became Satan because he wanted to be higher then god.

    You cannot hold God accountable for people’s “free will of choice”

    i’m not letting him off the hook for all the crap in the world because he was never on the hook in the first place… WE are on the hook and he has provided US a free way out off it.

    a lot of pain and suffering is from Mankinds disobedience and the cause of Sin that was broguht into the world.

    birth is a good example actually… pain and suffering was brought in for the giving of birth process as a punishement to the woman who disobeyed God and sinned and ate of the forbidden fruit.

    It was pretty simple back then… Adam and Eve were giving dominion of all things in the world, they had all the food etc… they could of asked for. but yet they ate of the fruit of the forbibbden tree in the garden the one thing God told them not to do.

    I am not trying to stuff all this in everybody’s face and force them to believe.
    It’s people choice to believe or not, thats the most important thing.

  • 2007 AAR League

    i dont, he made all the crap because its neccesarry.  If we were all good, then what is choice.  It comes down to choice and you NEED to be able to choose from good or evil.  What is joy without some misery you’ve experieced.  There must always be a balance that is maintained.  Truly its the ying and yang.  If everything was good and great, what choice to you have to be bad.  You dont have one, you’ve been raped of choice into being good, a slave if you will to being good, there should be no slaves.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    A)  Yes, I think God created natural disasters and the like.  He also created lions, cheetahs, hawks, owls and sharks.  All of the aforementioned cause strife in one form or another, so what?  He created a method to keep the world in balance, and part of that is “urban renewal” through natural disasters.  Floods in Mesopotamia brought highly fertile soil to the land making farming easier.  But the floods also killed people….

    B)  Darwinism/Evolution would lead you to believe that the weak and infirm should be killed so they cannot reproduce and thus strengthen the gene pool of your species.  Christianity, on the other hand, teaches you to take care of your neighbor so that all might be strong.

    Hmm, I can murder the helpless so that there’s more resources for the strong, or I can help everyone that needs it…hard choice, but I think I’m gunna go with the moral high ground not the ethical low ground here.


  • @balungaloaf:

    i dont, he made all the crap because its neccesarry. If we were all good, then what is choice. It comes down to choice and you NEED to be able to choose from good or evil. What is joy without some misery you’ve experieced. There must always be a balance that is maintained. Truly its the ying and yang. If everything was good and great, what choice to you have to be bad. You dont have one, you’ve been raped of choice into being good, a slave if you will to being good, there should be no slaves.

    Nice point !


  • @NoMercy:

    well Switich…

    if thats the case…

    lets say you had a kid and he went and blew up a building for a example… and it was sometihng he decided to do on his own.

    I want you and and Angel held responsible for this because you helped create this kid according to your reasoning.

    Actually no I am not responsible, ONLY God would be.  If he is the creator, then he deliberately set up everything to allow that terrible thing to happen.  And if God is all powerful and all knowing, then he made a DELIBERATE decision to allow that act to occur when he could have changed it without any effort at all.

    You can;t ask people to assume Creator of all, all knowing, all powerful divine entity, and then absolve that smae entity of any responsibility for all the crap that happens.

    Either there is an all powerful God, and he is responsible for all the BS, or there isn’t and it is the result of chance and free will.

    I don;t see a lot of middle ground there…

  • 2007 AAR League

    Because you can’t seem to discern good between evil


  • @NoMercy:

    you have to remember God is perfect, he created the angel Lucifer WHICH on his own free will choose a wrong path and became Satan because he wanted to be higher then god.

    You cannot hold God accountable for people’s “free will of choice”

    This deserved a seperate reply…

    If people do indeed have free will, then it is only because God set it up that way.  If he is all knowing and all powerful, then he created free will with the full knowledge of what would happen as a result.

    Sounds like Criminal Negligence to me…

  • 2007 AAR League

    no….

    he gave people free will of choice so they could choose him instead of forcing them to obey him and follow him.

    which servant would you like better?
    the one you have to constanly watch over your back because you forced him to be your servant or the one with his own free will and choice decides to follow you.

    he can’t choose for you, its up to people to choose. and Yes god set it up that way for them to have free will.
    he left the choice for up to you on how you want to live life, do stuff and choose your own destiny, the good place or the bad place.


  • OK, so God deliberately created Lucifer, and created the situation that would cause Lucifer to be cast down and take half the angels with him.

    And God also made mankind have free will.  And he did this with the full knowledge that many humans would do evil.

    That is even worse than the two guys in Trading Places.  At least with them it was a bet between 2 different people.  But what you describe is God creating evil (he created EVERYTHING) and giving free will, just so that some would choose evil.  And he would know in advance due to his all powerful, all knowing being who would be evil and who would be good.

    Predestination.

    And thus people only do evil because God set it up for them to do evil.

    That is even more sick than the Trading Places image I have of God and Satan in the story of Job.  At least with THAT view, Satan is an independent entity and so God and Satan are having their bet over if a person will turn to crime.  What you are posting precludes even THAT.

    So why bother?


  • You can change your evil (harmful) ways dumbass!


  • Only if the all powerful all knowing Creator of the Universe has it set up that I can.  Otherwise, I am the powerless puppet of His plan.

    This of course assumes that I give any credence to Christianity (which I do not, obviously).  Not for lack of trying on my part.  I tried to be a good Lutheran… Catechims, the works.  But those darn logic holes just prevent me from taking that particular set of myths seriously.

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