(In depth poll) IF the Iraq war ever succeeds…


  • @Mary:

    I am sure you have great domestic spending plans, but it can all be ruined by another terrorist attack. I would rather have Iraq as their base than some mosque by the local flight school. I do not want another 911 on our soil. Given the Spanish elections after 311, I doubt if AQ will care about their losses in Iraq.

    Where have I heard this before? Vietnam maybe? If we don’t fight the communists over there, we’ll be fighting them over here! It was a lie then and its a lie now. The insurgents in Iraq are almost all native TO Iraq

    "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Only 90 of the more than 5,700 people in custody in Iraq as security risks are foreign fighters, defense officials said on Tuesday, a figure that suggests the Bush administration may have overstated the role of outside militants in the deadly insurgency.

    The officials, who asked not to be identified, said the U.S. military command handling security detention facilities in Iraq confirmed a report in USA Today that fewer than 2 percent of those in custody were foreigners."

    http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2004/07/06/few_detainees_in_iraq_are_foreign_usa_today?mode=PF

    I feel so much safer knowing we’re taking the fight to the enemy :roll:

    Enemies of the US should be regarded as such whether they are AQ, Baathist, ACLU, commies, KKK, etc… It does not matter to me if the prisoners our troops detain are Iraqi or not. SH had a lot of supporters and we did not kill all of them in the initial weeks of the invasion, so they are still out there. Right now those leftovers are working to destabilize the new Iraq. It would be nice to win them over to the new provisional govm’t, but if they are so much against it to take arms, then that cancer must be removed to allow the new nation to live.


  • @Mary:

    Iraq has a huge, porous border which we are incapable of defending. But let me get this straight: we can’t stop illegal immigrants from crossing the Mexican border, but we’re going to make Iraq air-tight?

    We have not gone back to carpet bombing yet. This would be totally unacceptable along the Mexican border, but the situation in Iraq might justify it. I think having night vision equiped aerial drones would also help in targeting future raids.

    The 1984-ish construct of the new Iraq seems to be a good idea. Having all-seeing eyes everywhere in that country to spot trouble before it festers… doing that for 3-5 years would allow the govm’t and local military to establish stability enough for our troops to leave. However, I think the Bush and future administrations will keep military air bases there for at least 30 years. It will be something like the bases we maintain in South Korea.


  • @Zooey72:

    … I could care less as long as it was in the best intrests of the US. I for one, could care less about the Iraqi people. … I could care less about “bringing democracy” to Iraq. That has never meant anything to me.

    So, why did you start that invasion again?

    And you did sidestep the question of the horrible regime set up in post war japan/germany that were supposed to be democracys but to THIS DAY can not practice thier pre-war politics. Why? BECAUSE WE SAID SO!

    Because you took the people and showed them the camps nearby their towns. Because you took years to teach us democracy.
    BECAUSE YOU CARED ABOUT “BRINGING DEMOCRACY” TO us.
    That’s why Iraq is not going so well, you do not care for the people there, and they notice it.

    … The government had a plan to purchase cars and vacations for its citizens.

    So, Ancinet Rome was socialist because they had the same “panem et circensis” approach? The working hours and workers rights are more important parts of a workers party, and the Nazis “cared less” about that.

    Hardly a “hands off” government.

    Your definition of socialist is use-free.

    Not to mention the direct ties the government had to industry.

    Exactly, how socialistic to tie oneself to the capitalists. :roll:

    I wish it had been to the left, because than the whole movement would have fallen on its face and bankrupted (even worse than it already was) the German economy.

    Gosh …. Why did the War start in 1939, and not later?
    Because Germany was totally and utterly bankrupted, even with the money that was stolen from the Jews and others.

    And why would you say the night of the long knives ended the socialist part of national socialism? The SA were the heart of the socialist part of the equation?

    Oh, you know something. It was the leader of the SA who was the “socialist”, that’s why he was still a threat to Hitler after he had seized power, but not needed anymore. Hitler could “care less” about him.


  • Exactly, how socialistic to tie oneself to the capitalists

    Under National Socialism the key industries are controled by government under the system of corporativism directed to align the national economic goals to alleviate items like unemployment, inflation and any economic problems at the time. Under a Fascist system their are no trade unions but a system of guilds of various trade skills. Their is a form of capitalism and it is driven by self serving interests (the best kind). However the KEY industries ( oil production, steel, mineral,etc are totally under government control. Government decides what and when to build for example: all public works projects directed to serve the national plan.

    The father of Fascism was Giovanni Gentile, but Hegel, arthur schopenhauer, even Darwin have been attributed to this bounty of ideas.

    IMNSHO Fascism has never really been refuted. It only led to compromised situations where it got twisted and mutated to serve other goals. In Spain Fascism served them well as late as 1975 and they never got into or started a war once the commies got pushed out.


  • First Falk, I am going to assume that you are German because you say “us”. If you are not, I apolagize.

    We started the invasion for the same reason you have had American troops in your country for the last 60 years. It is a strategic location. No war in History that I can think of has been fought for the reasons stated by the government. The civil war was not fought over slavery, it was fought over tariffs and tax apropriations. But doesn’t “free an enslaved people” sound so much nicer?

    Democracy did not take hold in Germany because of American “feel good” mentality. If that is all it took than it would have done happened after WW1. The honest truth why the Germans gave up on National Socialism is because we utterly destroyed thier country. That was the plan at Yalta. No seperate peace. That is why civilian cities like Dresden were fire bombed. The allies knew the rhetoric that Hitler spouted off to get into office “We did not lose WW1, it was a stab in the back” blah blah blah. There is no doubt we won WW2, and that was the intent… This may be counter factual history, but I believe after the war was over… if allowed… the Germans probably would have voted in some Nazis if they were allowed to vote for whom they wanted. Esp around places like Nuremberg.

    The US needs to have a presence in the middle east for the war on terrorism. Iraq is a very strategic location that we can respond to attacks from. I am not opposed to a “puppet government” if that is what it takes. But I am in the minority as far as that goes. Given time we will move more troops out, and pull our remaining forces into large heavily secured bases and let the Iraqi military handle its own stability problems (the fact there is only 1 combat ready brigade is insane, and someone should be held accountable). This is no more an occupation force than the occupation force you have in your country Falk. Did our military stike down the german government because they disagreed with us on Iraq? No. Disagreement is fine, polar f’d up radicalism is not. You can bet your sweet a$$ if there was another beer hall putsch (sp) the American forces there would come out to fix the situation.

    And you are wrong about the nazis “could not care less about the workers”. It was psychotic and sad, but the whole concept of National Socialism revolved around being German. If anything, thier “love mania” was the whole root of it. Think of a stalker, he may “love” the one he is stalking… but that does not make him any less crazy.

    Your SA thing still baffles me. The “leader” of the socialist arm of the Nazi party… Ernst Rohm, was a homosexual thug pedophile. Almost all historians agree that the regular members of the SA were little better than thugs in uniform. Hitler did not see Rohm as a threat, Rohm held some power yes… but few could really challenge his loyalty. So much so, that on the night of the long knives when he was dragged out of his bed by the SS he thought it was some kind of coup going on. He refused to believe Hitler would do that to him. He died with “Hiel Hitler” on his lips in the middle of a salute. The reason Hitler got rid of Rohm is because the Army would not cooperate with the Nazis while the SA existed. The ARMY saw it as a threat because the SA were a couple million strong, while the army was limited to only 100,000. The SA who were thugs, than went into the regular army and learned some disipline. Oh, and if you want to see the socialist mastermind of National Socialism look at Speer.

    Germany was FAR from being bankrupt in 1939. Unemployment was almost non-existant in 1939. The reason those social programs I mentioned were put in place was to encourage people to work harder. Unlike FDR who tried to do social reforms first, and infrastructure second… Hitler built up Germany’s infrastructure first. Here is another key difference between left and right socialism. Between 33 and 39 the average salary of a man working 40 hours a week did not hardly change at all. What changed was that anyone could get a good job, and work almost unlimited OT if they wanted to. The 40 hours a week would keep you (and your family) fed and clothed and such. But to succeed you had it within your power to do so. When socialim is applied to the left you get a welfare state like France that prides itself for only having a 35 hour work week and huge unemployment.

    Leader hit the nail on the head, so I won’t get into that.

    I don’t know where you get your info from Falk. I would think being German you would have more info at your disposal, and that it would have been more focused on in school. I am not saying this to be insulting (honestly). If you learned some of these things in school, than the German school system has done its people an injustice. I am wondering too, if this is the type of thing that is taught in schools if that it was put in place to missinform Germans to exactly what the Nazi party was like. There is plenty of “evil” to be handed when it comes to the nazis. The German school system does not need to make things up.

    And falk, you can probably tell I am a WW2 nut. In college I took every german history and world war class my univeristy offered. I only mention that so as to not sound like an extremist when I say I read “mien kamph” for refrences to a few pappers.

    If “because we said so” does not work… than how come you have never been allowed to read it?


  • Oh, and to add. You should be glad that the war started in 39. It was planned for 43. 300 operational U-boats (which what was forcasted) would strangled England in a few months (not to mention the surface fleet that had planned on having 7 more tirpitz class battlehships and an aircraft carrier at that time). The German airforce in 39 was 3 times the size of the British airforce, how large of a disparity would there have been in 43? 4 more years of German tech playing into it too? 44-45 the Germans had rockets, jets, assault weapons, snorkels, almost unstopable tanks, air to sea GUIDED missles, STEALTH technology (that we <the united=“” states=“”>still uses today) and was on the brink of getting SAMs. And lets not forget the possibility of a German A-bomb.

    If the war had not happened in 39, more than likely you would be goose stepping right now with Hitler’s son/grandson in charge of Eurupe.</the>


  • Zooey writes regarding Falk:

    “because we said so”

    Thats another thing that is this “falks” problem ( i cant say liberal anymore because thats a label)

    Its like they have some monopoly on the truth from their “irrefutable” sources and everything is a fixed platonic “Ideal” from the heavens. Its "the everything has been solved " mindset which is allways totally refutable. Then they instead of just hear anothers idea and leave it at that, want to “educate” us on the morality of the ignorant masses. Sounds like some of my anthropology professors from UCLA. Yikes!


  • Think I know what you are getting at leader. But I am the one who said “because we said so”.


  • @DarthMaximus:

    PRICELESS. Not everything is dollars and cents. …that comes from a Republican.

    Hopefully no one, including Mary, will make the mistake of assuming that all Repubs. are
    greedy, warmongering, children starving, senior citizen dogfood feeding, dirty water/air loving capitalists.
    @DarthMaximus:

    I’m not writer so, sometimes stuff may not come across right. But the Stuff in Red is “striken from the record.”

    The court orders it so stricken.


    @:

    cystic cryp "],

    Removal of his Sons

    They could have been assassinated…

    Hello, cystic crypt Pat Robertson!

    Elections in Palastine

    this is new?

    Without Yasser and his Saddam Putin-like results…fairly.

    Israel out of Gaza

    Israel pulled out of Gaza as a result of its allies invading Iraq? The US couldn’t have just said “please”? Well, i guess if they need the destruction of >1% of the civilian population of some other country to do the right thing, then i guess it was necessary . . .
    Are you saying the Freedom Coalition killed 250, 000 Civilian Iraqis before the conflict was declared substantiallly complete[not to be confused with the W “Mission Accomplished” TF recognition]?
    Where in tarnation did you get those #s or what did you mean?

    @Linkon:

    Think of it as surgery to remove a malignant cancerous tumor before trouble spreads.
    Scalpel blades are often sharper than swords.

    Et tu, Linkon Pat Robertson?


  • @El:

    @Linkon:

    Think of it as surgery to remove a malignant cancerous tumor before trouble spreads.
    Scalpel blades are often sharper than swords.

    Et tu, Linkon Pat Robertson?

    Hugo Chavez may talk tough against the US, and act cozy w/Castro, but the USA still buys a lot of Venezuelan crude. He did not initiate an Opec embargo against the US, and he did not cheer the 911 bombers.

    AFIK, Castro, Kim, and Hussein are the only world leaders who cheered 911. Such action is deserving of severe reprisals. If Chavez cheers 911 or some similar terrorist attack, then he would be in the same boat as the other 3.


  • @El:

    @:

    cystic cryp "],

    Removal of his Sons

    They could have been assassinated…

    Hello, cystic crypt Pat Robertson

    better that than invade a sovereign nation killing its populace and stealing its resources to keep Bush’s friends (and father) happy.

    Elections in Palastine

    this is new?

    Without Yasser and his Saddam Putin-like results…fairly.i have trouble ascribing this so-called improvement a result and appropriate impetus for war.

    Israel out of Gaza

    Israel pulled out of Gaza as a result of its allies invading Iraq? The US couldn’t have just said “please”? Well, i guess if they need the destruction of >1% of the civilian population of some other country to do the right thing, then i guess it was necessary . . .
    Are you saying the Freedom Coalition killed 250, 000 Civilian Iraqis before the conflict was declared substantiallly complete[not to be confused with the W “Mission Accomplished” TF recognition]?
    Where in tarnation did you get those #s or what did you mean? :oops: i goofed.
    the point was that i really appreciate that the US needed to invade and slaughter much of another country for Israel to pull out of Gaza.

    @Linkon:

    Think of it as surgery to remove a malignant cancerous tumor before trouble spreads.
    Scalpel blades are often sharper than swords.

    Et tu, Linkon Pat Robertson?
    ignore ignore


  • @Imperious:

    Thats another thing that is this “falks” problem ( i cant say liberal anymore because thats a label)

    Mods, i officially accuse this personal attack.
    I call you to discuss this and would like to remind you that appropriate punishments do exist.


  • Just wait one second… we agreed to not use terms like Liberal and conservative and instead use our actual “ficticious” names, so as not to label a group of posters as things like “hippies, liberals, neo-cons, nazis,berkely students,etc” Thats way we stay out of trouble… and i am playing by these rules…

    BTW how can you even take any offense to not only what i post… but to really anything at this site. Its all about the back and forth exchange of information. Its like John Majors at the house of commons refuting what some chap in scotland says about public transportation. I enjoy our combative exchanges… really its more like two siblings fighting in the back seat of moms car. You must admit that i dont really do this “personal attack thing” because after all the forum is not any battlefield of ideas, but a direct expression of EVERYBODYS ideas woven into the same stinky blanket.
    Take care Falk and dont take yourself too seriously in this place…


  • @Zooey72:

    We started the invasion for the same reason you have had American troops in your country for the last 60 years. It is a strategic location.

    When did it become so strategic? What changed between 1944 and 1940?

    Democracy did not take hold in Germany because of American “feel good” mentality. If that is all it took than it would have done happened after WW1.

    Hmmm … there was democracy in Germany after WWI, why do you think there was not ?

    The honest truth why the Germans gave up on National Socialism is because we utterly destroyed thier country.

    True, and you destroyed Germany because of National Socialism. Rather simple equation for a smart person to solve, if that person wants to avoid further utter destruction.

    if allowed… the Germans probably would have voted in some Nazis if they were allowed to vote for whom they wanted. Esp around places like Nuremberg.

    Some did. And others of the majority made the parties illegal.

    The US needs to have a presence in the middle east for the war on terrorism. Iraq is a very strategic location that we can respond to attacks from.

    Why is Iraq so much better suited than Quwait and Turkey?
    You have fallen for propaganda.

    Disagreement is fine, polar f’d up radicalism is not.

    Who watches the watchmen?
    The world agrees that the US are on a good way to f’d up radicalism.

    And you are wrong about the nazis “could not care less about the workers”. It was psychotic and sad, but the whole concept of National Socialism revolved around being German.

    I agree with the second sentence, But where does worker equate German?
    The workers were cattle to the Nazis, useful tools. Needed to be grunts. That’s why programs the Volkswagen or Kraft durch Freude (Power though joy) were created. None of them aimed at giveng the workers any more rights so. It was all “bread and games”. And that is not socialist at all.

    Ernst Rohm, was a homosexual thug pedophile.

    You have fallen for NAzi porpaganda. He was gay, but not pedophile.

    So much so, that on the night of the long knives when he was dragged out of his bed by the SS he thought it was some kind of coup going on. He refused to believe Hitler would do that to him. He died with “Hiel Hitler” on his lips in the middle of a salute.

    Hmmm … you do know that Röhm was imprisoned on the 29th June, and died in prison on the 1st July? I don’t know where you have your information from, but you should check that.

    The reason Hitler got rid of Rohm is because the Army would not cooperate with the Nazis while the SA existed.

    And it surely was the army who also wanted General von Schleicher, Georg Strasser and Gustav Knight of Kahr assassinated ?
    The SA-Army thing was one part of the reason. The removal of critics and inner-party threats was the more important reason.

    Germany was FAR from being bankrupt in 1939. Unemployment was almost non-existant in 1939.

    sigh … simple counterexample: The GDR was bankrupt. The GDR had zero unemployment.
    Everything the Nazis had done was financed on credit. And it was about time thtat the credits were due.

    I only mention that so as to not sound like an extremist when I say I read “mien kamph” for refrences to a few pappers.

    you have read it? And you still take it seriously??

    If “because we said so” does not work…. than how come you have never been allowed to read it?

    I explained that above, with the smart person and the equation. BTW, long live the internet ;).


  • @Zooey72:

    You should be glad that the war started in 39. It was planned for 43. … 4 more years of German tech playing into it too?

    See … the Italians had one of europes best and biggest armies in 1936. What did that help them 1940? That is the same 4 years, and the equipment was utterly obsolete.

    Now, imaging the germans building more and more Me109. They would have suffered the same fate.
    What you imply in your “look at the tech advancement” is that in peacetime you would have had the same flux of equipment. “Unfortunately” in peacetime, things are not being bombed and shot at, and say operational much longer. And to throw that away ???
    Do you see my point?

    There is saying in the world -i am not sure wether it is in the US as well- that the US needs to wage wars every five to ten years so that they can get rid of their old technology arms and field - test the next generation of weapons.

    That is what the Germans would have missed, so i stand by: Had the war started later, the german equipment would have been outdated.


  • Not a very astute reflection. Germany tested its weaponry in Spain along with the Italians and thats why it was “the cutting edge of 1936”. Only the soviets had gained some experience as they supplied some equipment. The European axis supplied both men and equipment. The allies had no program or doctrine of developing the science of warfare, except in cases as it pertained to commerce (jet power, radar).
    If Hitler decided to listen to Erich Raeder and others who advocated the war begin by 1943-44 during this time Germany would have undoubtedly gotten itself into a few “other causes” again for the purpose of sharpening the blade. Of course she could not invade other nations as that would have led to war, but to provide the 5th column support allowing these nations to rot from within would be the goal. Even in America you may remember madison square garden once accomodated the american “nazi” party convention. Their were many “seeds” of support in many nations for this cause. Anyway… the axis purpose was geared up for war, while the allies were in malaise and did little to nothing. The only other nation that would suspect a war breaking out was Stalin who was preparing to invade Germany by 1942 on her own merits.

    That is why the Germans even in 1939-45 totally outclassed the world in tank technology, Jet power, Rockets, even small arms (mp44) It took a while to catch up but they allways had a big lead to start. If they fully mobilized by 1943 with the full Speer wartime economy and underground factories, they would have been nearly unstopable.

    The only problem was japan… They really had to start something sooner rather than latter due to their far more limited industrial capabilities. If they didnt take indo - china and piss off FDR then the oil embargo would not have taken place when it did. This would have allowed a second window of time in order to finish the war in China. They didnt have the capabilities to conquer China completely, but at least conclude some treaty allowing an end to hostilities. China was a financial drain on Japans economy, nearly like a “mini-babarossa”.


  • @F_alk:

    @Zooey72:

    We started the invasion for the same reason you have had American troops in your country for the last 60 years. It is a strategic location.

    When did it become so strategic? What changed between 1944 and 1940?

    Democracy did not take hold in Germany because of American “feel good” mentality. If that is all it took than it would have done happened after WW1.

    Hmmm … there was democracy in Germany after WWI, why do you think there was not ?

    The honest truth why the Germans gave up on National Socialism is because we utterly destroyed thier country.

    True, and you destroyed Germany because of National Socialism. Rather simple equation for a smart person to solve, if that person wants to avoid further utter destruction.

    if allowed… the Germans probably would have voted in some Nazis if they were allowed to vote for whom they wanted. Esp around places like Nuremberg.

    Some did. And others of the majority made the parties illegal.

    The US needs to have a presence in the middle east for the war on terrorism. Iraq is a very strategic location that we can respond to attacks from.

    Why is Iraq so much better suited than Quwait and Turkey?
    You have fallen for propaganda.

    Disagreement is fine, polar f’d up radicalism is not.

    Who watches the watchmen?
    The world agrees that the US are on a good way to f’d up radicalism.

    And you are wrong about the nazis “could not care less about the workers”. It was psychotic and sad, but the whole concept of National Socialism revolved around being German.

    I agree with the second sentence, But where does worker equate German?
    The workers were cattle to the Nazis, useful tools. Needed to be grunts. That’s why programs the Volkswagen or Kraft durch Freude (Power though joy) were created. None of them aimed at giveng the workers any more rights so. It was all “bread and games”. And that is not socialist at all.

    Ernst Rohm, was a homosexual thug pedophile.

    You have fallen for NAzi porpaganda. He was gay, but not pedophile.

    So much so, that on the night of the long knives when he was dragged out of his bed by the SS he thought it was some kind of coup going on. He refused to believe Hitler would do that to him. He died with “Hiel Hitler” on his lips in the middle of a salute.

    Hmmm … you do know that Röhm was imprisoned on the 29th June, and died in prison on the 1st July? I don’t know where you have your information from, but you should check that.

    The reason Hitler got rid of Rohm is because the Army would not cooperate with the Nazis while the SA existed.

    And it surely was the army who also wanted General von Schleicher, Georg Strasser and Gustav Knight of Kahr assassinated ?
    The SA-Army thing was one part of the reason. The removal of critics and inner-party threats was the more important reason.

    Germany was FAR from being bankrupt in 1939. Unemployment was almost non-existant in 1939.

    sigh … simple counterexample: The GDR was bankrupt. The GDR had zero unemployment.
    Everything the Nazis had done was financed on credit. And it was about time thtat the credits were due.

    I only mention that so as to not sound like an extremist when I say I read “mien kamph” for refrences to a few pappers.

    you have read it? And you still take it seriously??

    If “because we said so” does not work…. than how come you have never been allowed to read it?

    I explained that above, with the smart person and the equation. BTW, long live the internet ;).

    In a hurry, but will respond to a few things and get to the rest later.

    Please don’t play games falk, this is not a flame thing. I just don’t want to cover things I know you are aware of.

    meaning…

    What happened that made Germany so strategic, the cold war. And you know that. It was also in our best intrest to have Germany rebuild its military to help with the Warsaw pact/Nato arms race

    You also know that democracy failed in Germany because of the stab in the back mentality of the German people.

    3rd point. Have we destroyed Iraq the way we did Germany? Think before you knee jerk reaction of “yes” because although you like the anti war propaganda, you also know that there is no comparison. There are pro SH demonstrations in Iraq. Would we have allowed that in Germany after WW2? We could solve the problem of insurgency with the utter destruction of Iraq… Not every German was a nazi, and not every Iraqi is a follower of SH. So lets fire bomb Baghdad the same way we did dresden. That is how Germany was converted. When the people were faced with utter hopelessness in thier cause.

    Grr, got to go. Looked up the Rohm thing, I stand corrected for the most part. Can’t remember where I read that… oh well. Mien kamph… if you are going to study Nazi Germany you should read the autobiography of the man who ran it all. Some of the refrences I used was to show what a dumb ass Stalin was for thinking he could trust Hitler when the book clearly states that he was going to attack.


  • @Zooey72:

    What happened that made Germany so strategic, the cold war. And you know that. It was also in our best intrest to have Germany rebuild its military to help with the Warsaw pact/Nato arms race

    You think that was the reason why the US entered the war? AFAIK only Churchill was “wise” enough to look into the future and see this upcoming conflict. The US gov’t did not, thus it can not be the reason for invasion. (Remember that is what we are talking about)

    You also know that democracy failed in Germany because of the stab in the back mentality of the German people.

    I know, but you know that your point of the last post was "If the US had wanted democracy after WWI, you would have ‘gone in’ ". My answer was: there was no need for you to go in. I don’t argue what you wrote in this post, but this here does not really relate to your earier post.

    3rd point. Have we destroyed Iraq the way we did Germany? Think before you knee jerk reaction of “yes” …

    Think and remember this should not be a flame war, before you warn me of a knee jerk reaction, especially when you are not long enough a member here on the board to know that i often enough disapproved of this comparison. Germany was bleeded out by the war, Iraq was not. The German population suffered from a year long war, Iraq did not (they suffered from a year long trade-ban, but that is not the same than having bombs fall on your regularly).

    Mien kamph… if you are going to study Nazi Germany you should read the autobiography of the man who ran it all. Some of the refrences I used was to show what a dumb a** Stalin was for thinking he could trust Hitler when the book clearly states that he was going to attack.

    Like the “dumb” jews who stayed?
    Anyway … the book was written in prison, before 1933. If you want to study the regime, then yes, it is interesting to compare what happened to what was proposed in the book. But, it is more important to study what really happened.

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