What's the consensus on a standard bid?

[JamesG]

But with such a small sample size, it is really impossible to draw conclusions.  It could just be the superior players are drawing the axis.  Or flukey luck is running in the axis favor.

As counterpoint in your favor, on the war club, of the last 20 games, 13 were won by the Axis.  So it is possible that new Axis tactics are being developed making a bid of 9 a mite high.  But since the previous 20 were 11 axis, 10 allies, its too soon to tell.

[mateooo]

james makes a good point.  The more confident and possibly “better” players might feel that they can win with a smaller bid, lets say 6, while the less confident, and possibly less skilled players would be more likely to bid higher, maybe 8 or 9 and thus be outbid every time.  The better player ends up playing the axis every time, and thus the appearance of axis advantage at 6 bid.    The best way to decide this would be to have a tournament with a standard 6 bid, and alternating sides.

mateooo

[JamesG]

Excellent point mateooo, I had not even considered that.  That does further skew things in the axis favor.

And I don’t think I mentioned the War Club games are in sets of two, with each player in a pairing playing once as the axis and once as the allies.  In other words, the alternating sides you just proposed, mateooo.

[Guest]

Carrying over IPC remainign from the bid to be used on Turn 1 is essential to pairing down the bid.

Otherwise, you end up with low bids all being in increments of 3 (for the most part)

Allowing for IPC carry over, I’d be willing to take a bid of $1 against most opponents…

[JamesG]

I agree that giving the players the option of “banking” a portion their bid is important.  Usually units pre-placed on the board are better than extra money in the bank, but there are obvious exceptions, such as the $1 to Japan allowing an IC and two trannies to be purchased round one.

I don’t think there is a consensus “best bid” on the War Club for that standard $9.  Common options include:

3 Inf (either all for Germ or 2 Germ, one Jap).  If a Jap Inf is used, it usually goes to Frindo.  Extra Germ Inf may be in Europe or Africa, or split between them.

Tank and Inf in Africa for Germ, $1 to Jap.

Trannie for Germ, $1 to Jap

Many others I’m sure.

[Axel Allie]

If you have a bid of 6 and you don’t want to place that extra inf (meaning 3 IPC’s left)…

can you give all 6 IPC’s to the germen/japanese bank, too?
meaning - not spending anything of it before purchases being made?
or do you have to pre-place half the amount?

[tcnance]

you can keep it all in the bank if you want the way i understand it

[Octopus]

When I first came to these boards, I found the bid system most interesting.  People felt they needed a bid to remain competitive with the Axis and I did not understand why.

Now I think I do.

#1)  People have interesting (if not incorrect) barometers reading just how successful the Axis is the doing.  It is not necessary to hold the Baltic, take Africa, or hold the beaches of Western Europe to stage an effective campaign to bring an Axis Victory.

#2) Just because one side appears to be winning, does not mean they will take the target Capital.  Has anyone seen the Japan stall on their offensive?  Or find the Fall of Germany occurs 3 or 4 turns beyond what they originally thought (or not at all)?

People quit their games long before they should because of a perceived notion there is no hope of winning.

This game has very little to do with history, so don’t feel that if the Allies hold Western Europe, that the war will be over by May 1945.

I don’t think a bid is necessary, but if anyone wants to give me extra money to start, they can.

[Flush]

Octo, No bid? I agree. in revised the axis player has a much better chance than orginal. we have never played with a bid in reivsed. a good axis player should not need a typical 9 $ raise.

[JamesG]

Said it before and will say it again.  I agree the Axis can win in Revised without a bid.  Which is a major improvement from classic A&A.  But if you want the winning percentages to be about 50/50 over the long term, the Axis needs an 8-9 IPC bid.  The TripleA War Club stats bear that out.

[Lucifer]

@ncscswitch:

Allowing for IPC carry over, I’d be willing to take a bid of $1 against most opponents…

Well, game then. I play allies, u play axis with bid 1. No tech. TripleA, can u host?

:-D :-) 8-) :lol: :-P :evil: :roll: :wink: :mrgreen:

I couldn’t resist :-))

[cyan]

um that was from LAST may i did you’ll get a response.

[DarthMaximus]

Lol @ the oldness of this thread.

However, this thread did get me thinking and I do have some new information from the League.  I started to go through some of the old games and got through about the last 6 pages (first half of this year).  I also eliminated games that I knew were defaults.  So I went through 89 games and found the following:

This is full bid placement (no restrictions)

5 bids - 5
6 bids - 19
7 bids - 31
8 bids - 28
9 bids - 6

Winners (Allies/Axis):

5 bids - 2/3
6 bids - 8/11
7 bids - 18/13
8 bids - 16/12
9 bids - 3/3

Percentages (Allies win %):

Overall - 47/42 - Allies win 52.8
5 bids - Allies win 40% (too small of a sample)
6 bids - Allies win 42.1%
7 bids - Allies win 58.1%
8 bids - Allies win 57.1%
9 bids - Allies win 50% (too small of a sample)

Eliminating the 5 and 9 bids and focusing on 6, 7, 8 we get:

6-8 bids - 42/36 - Allies win 53.8%

And if we just focus on 7 and 8 bids (which seems to be the norm now):

7-8 bids - 34/25 - Allies win 57.6%

So what does this all mean?  The Allies are doing fairly well in giving up 7 and 8 IPC.

Now this is still relatively small in terms of number of games and only through maybe June or July, but I think it does show that we do have quite a few players who are more than willing to give up 7 or 8 and still win.  I think I’ve been seeing a lot more 9’s as well, but that has been more recent.

[Jennifer]

@Lucifer:

@ncscswitch:

Allowing for IPC carry over, I’d be willing to take a bid of $1 against most opponents…

Well, game then. I play allies, u play axis with bid 1. No tech. TripleA, can u host?

:-D :-) 8-) :lol: :-P :evil: :roll: :wink: :mrgreen:

I couldn’t resist :-))

Shush, he might take you up on it! :P

Though, I have personally, never seen Switch bid 1 IPC against me or mine.

BTW, nice summary, DM.

[axis_roll]

8-9 would’ve been my guess for a typical bid these days.

Funny how you see the bid increase over time, just like it got that way in second edition as more players realized the true power of 3 on 2.

[trihero]

6-8 bids - 42/36 - Allies win 53.8%

And if we just focus on 7 and 8 bids (which seems to be the norm now):

7-8 bids - 34/25 - Allies win 57.6%

That is really strange, one would expect the percentage to go down if you analyze just the 7-8 bids. That means the Axis wins more of the time at a bid of 6…(in order to average out with the 7-8 range to get 53.8% for the Allies…!)

[Jennifer]

@Bean:

6-8 bids - 42/36 - Allies win 53.8%

And if we just focus on 7 and 8 bids (which seems to be the norm now):

7-8 bids - 34/25 - Allies win 57.6%

That is really strange, one would expect the percentage to go down if you analyze just the 7-8 bids. That means the Axis wins more of the time at a bid of 6…(in order to average out with the 7-8 range to get 53.8% for the Allies…!)

Maybe better axis players are bidding lower to get the axis while worse are bidding higher in hopes of getting the allies.  It’s only a 1 IPC difference really. (6 to 8 vs 7 or 8)

[trihero]

Lmao I see everyone do that thing where they put an 8 next to a ) and get 8).

I still wonder where the bid is. It’s quite reasonable to assume 9+ on the triple a ladder due to how the bids are restricted to 1 piece per territory and only half can be placed on the board, but if the better players are holding down the fort between 6-7, then it’s not really 8-9.

[Jennifer]

Icky poo-poo.  FIDA bids suck!

FIDA bids at AAMC drive the bid for AAR up to 17-20 IPC because you almost NEED two units with Germany.  Well, you may not against certain players, but good players vs good playesr almost need two units.  And heck, if I have to keep half of it in money, then I may as well make Japan rich for round 1 to deter a KJF!

[Weekend Gamer]

In my experience, bids fluctuate from a low of 5 or 6 to a high of 9.  For me, it depends on whether I prefer playing the Axis or the Allies.  I think good players can win with almost any bid as the Axis, whereas less experienced players probably need the greater options available in the 8-9 range.  Just my two cents.