13L G40 NT Arathorn (Axis) vs. Infrastructure (Allies +13)

[arathorn]

France?

[arathorn]

Bump #2

[arathorn]

Hi,

I don’t know if you’re so crazy busy with work and life that you can only post half or a third of a country combo at a time with several days in between, and that you’re so busy that you don’t even have time to do tiny france, or if you’re stalling on purpose (though I give you the benefit of the doubt) due to our previous disagreement.

If you think you can turn this around and win this game, then please post france and let us try to finish this game. If you don’t think you can win, then let’s call it, and be done. I really don’t like bumping people out. I already did not use one of my rightful bumps, yet the count is at 2 now.

Let me know what you think.

[Major Major]

@arathorn:

Hi,

I don’t know if you’re so crazy busy with work and life that you can only post half or a third of a country combo at a time with several days in between, and that you’re so busy that you don’t even have time to do tiny france, or if you’re stalling on purpose (though I give you the benefit of the doubt) due to our previous disagreement.

If you think you can turn this around and win this game, then please post france and let us try to finish this game. If you don’t think you can win, then let’s call it, and be done. I really don’t like bumping people out. I already did not use one of my rightful bumps, yet the count is at 2 now.

Let me know what you think.

I think the above statement is ridiculous, because you don’t care about playing a good game for a win, but getting the win however possible.  That is insanely obvious by how you’ve played.

I do wish to play it out and I am very busy right now.

[Major Major]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 3

Politics - French
            French takes Political Action: Political Action French To War With Japanese
                French succeeds on action: Political Action French To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and French from Neutrality to War
                French succeeds on action: Political Action French To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Chinese and French from Neutrality to Allied

Combat Move - French
            1 destroyer moved from 37 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone

Combat - French
            Battle in 41 Sea Zone
                French attack with 1 destroyer
                Japanese defend with 1 submarine
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 41 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 destroyer in 41 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 41 Sea Zone, round 3 :  0/1 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 destroyer in 41 Sea Zone, round 3 :  1/1 hits
                    1 submarine owned by the Japanese lost in 41 Sea Zone
                French win, taking 41 Sea Zone from Japanese with 1 destroyer remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 submarine

Non Combat Move - French
            1 infantry moved from Egypt to Alexandria
            1 infantry moved from French Equatorial Africa to Anglo Egyptian Sudan

Turn Complete - French

[arathorn]

@Infrastructure:

@arathorn:

Hi,

I don’t know if you’re so crazy busy with work and life that you can only post half or a third of a country combo at a time with several days in between, and that you’re so busy that you don’t even have time to do tiny france, or if you’re stalling on purpose (though I give you the benefit of the doubt) due to our previous disagreement.

If you think you can turn this around and win this game, then please post france and let us try to finish this game. If you don’t think you can win, then let’s call it, and be done. I really don’t like bumping people out. I already did not use one of my rightful bumps, yet the count is at 2 now.

Let me know what you think.

I think the above statement is ridiculous, because you don’t care about playing a good game for a win, but getting the win however possible.  That is insanely obvious by how you’ve played.

I do wish to play it out and I am very busy right now.

You waited 4 days to post single France after having posted Anzac. You’ve been purposely dragging your feet.

I understand busy - I am busy myself. But if you’re not going to be able to post, it is courtesy to let your opponent be aware of it. The “bump” rule was made to ensure players’ “rights” when the opponent fails to do so.
I already refrained from bumping you once.

You’ve directed so many accusations against me, yet I remain respectful.
You decided to make this an unpleasant game. If I am such a weasel and you want to get out of it, you should just resign since it looks like it is only a matter of time now anyways. That would save both of us time, and you would never have to play against me again, if I am such an terrible opponent.

[arathorn]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 4

Politics - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 10 artilleries, 1 destroyer and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            5 armour, 1 artillery, 10 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Scotland to United Kingdom
            1 transport moved from 111 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Normandy Bordeaux to 110 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to United Kingdom
            9 transports moved from 111 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            6 armour and 3 artilleries moved from Western Germany to 112 Sea Zone
            5 infantry moved from Western Germany to 112 Sea Zone
            4 infantry moved from Norway to 112 Sea Zone
            6 armour, 3 artilleries, 9 infantry and 9 transports moved from 112 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 carrier, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 111 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            6 armour, 3 artilleries and 9 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to United Kingdom
            2 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            3 bombers moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to United Kingdom

[arathorn]

I need scramble orders for the UK attack. You can potentially scramble 3 ftrs against carrier, cruiser, destroyer, two tacticals and 3 bombers.

[Major Major]

@arathorn:

@Infrastructure:

@arathorn:

Hi,

I don’t know if you’re so crazy busy with work and life that you can only post half or a third of a country combo at a time with several days in between, and that you’re so busy that you don’t even have time to do tiny france, or if you’re stalling on purpose (though I give you the benefit of the doubt) due to our previous disagreement.

If you think you can turn this around and win this game, then please post france and let us try to finish this game. If you don’t think you can win, then let’s call it, and be done. I really don’t like bumping people out. I already did not use one of my rightful bumps, yet the count is at 2 now.

Let me know what you think.

I think the above statement is ridiculous, because you don’t care about playing a good game for a win, but getting the win however possible.  That is insanely obvious by how you’ve played.Â

I do wish to play it out and I am very busy right now.

You waited 4 days to post single France after having posted Anzac. You’ve been purposely dragging your feet.

I understand busy - I am busy myself. But if you’re not going to be able to post, it is courtesy to let your opponent be aware of it. The “bump” rule was made to ensure players’ “rights” when the opponent fails to do so.
I already refrained from bumping you once.

You’ve directed so many accusations against me, yet I remain respectful.
You decided to make this an unpleasant game. If I am such a weasel and you want to get out of it, you should just resign since it looks like it is only a matter of time now anyways. That would save both of us time, and you would never have to play against me again, if I am such an terrible opponent.

The only thing I’ve accused of is being more after a cheap win than a good game.  In my mind that does indeed make you a terrible opponent.

I reiterate my desire to play this game and will do my best to post when possible.  Perhaps I will have time to consider the scramble decision this evening.

[arathorn]

You forget what you’ve said earlier in the game.

Hopefully we can have good progress with a good tone.

And please stop insinuating I only want a cheap win.
There is a difference between what I did, following up on your mistake, and being unreasonable and cheap. No one else has backed the accusation , so let’s move on positively from here.

@arathorn:

@Infrastructure:

It was not a tactical blunder it was a mental mistake.  If you are saying that you dont believe me that i meant to DOW with France but missed it then you dont understand tactics.  I state again that if you had taken britian it would not have changed that i set my entire pacific set up to use that french dest as a blocker.  WHat you did with germany did not change that situation in any way.  I planned that blocker screen seperate of anything on the europe map.  I do it in most games.  It was my plan to decalre war with anzac and france to keep japan out of india and the dei.  If me not declaring war with france truly yruly affected your german turn, explain to me what you would have done different if france had declared war on japan?

If you consider that a tactical error you are incorrect.  it was a human error.  If you want a win more than a good game the way it was meant to play out.  Then say that now, so i dont waste more of my time.

Even if you were to categorise it as a mental mistake and not a tactical one, it doesn’t make a difference - it was a mistake and it was a “move” that you didn’t do that caused you trouble. Such things happen, and it’s a part of the game.

I was going to take out London, but the combo of you declared war with Anzac and not with France caused me to delay it. It was a package deal.

You can check out all of my games that I have played, and you’ll see that I am a lenient guy, who’s reasonable and trying to play a gentleman’s game and be a good sport. But you are throwing accusations and insinuations against me, and there is no reason to be impolite. I’ve treated you with respect, like I try to treat everybody.

Look at what you’ve said, and try to see if that encourages an understanding and accommodating treatment of the issue from my side:

@Infrastructure:

i guess you will win.  i dont like playing this style game.
Luckily there are enough players interested in winning by strategy, not just winning for false status to play against.

This style of game? What are you insinuating?
So I am only interested in playing to win for a false status?
And you’re lucky to have “enough other players” so you don’t have to deal with me?

@Infrastructure:

If you are saying that you dont believe me that i meant to DOW with France but missed it **then you dont understand tactics. **

If you want a win more than a good game the way it was meant to play out.  Then say that now, so i dont waste more of my time.

I don’t understand tactics?
I want a win more than a good game?
Is me placing pressure on you because of my strategy a waste of your time?

Such insults aren’t exactly strong cards to play if you are trying to have me change my mind and let you edit.

[Major Major]

@arathorn:

You forget what you’ve said earlier in the game.

Hopefully we can have good progress with a good tone.

And please stop insinuating I only want a cheap win.
There is a difference between what I did, following up on your mistake, and being unreasonable and cheap. No one else has backed the accusation , so let’s move on positively from here.

@arathorn:

@Infrastructure:

It was not a tactical blunder it was a mental mistake.  If you are saying that you dont believe me that i meant to DOW with France but missed it then you dont understand tactics.  I state again that if you had taken britian it would not have changed that i set my entire pacific set up to use that french dest as a blocker.  WHat you did with germany did not change that situation in any way.  I planned that blocker screen seperate of anything on the europe map.  I do it in most games.  It was my plan to decalre war with anzac and france to keep japan out of india and the dei.  If me not declaring war with france truly yruly affected your german turn, explain to me what you would have done different if france had declared war on japan?

If you consider that a tactical error you are incorrect.  it was a human error.  If you want a win more than a good game the way it was meant to play out.  Then say that now, so i dont waste more of my time.

Even if you were to categorise it as a mental mistake and not a tactical one, it doesn’t make a difference - it was a mistake and it was a “move” that you didn’t do that caused you trouble. Such things happen, and it’s a part of the game.

I was going to take out London, but the combo of you declared war with Anzac and not with France caused me to delay it. It was a package deal.

You can check out all of my games that I have played, and you’ll see that I am a lenient guy, who’s reasonable and trying to play a gentleman’s game and be a good sport. But you are throwing accusations and insinuations against me, and there is no reason to be impolite. I’ve treated you with respect, like I try to treat everybody.

Look at what you’ve said, and try to see if that encourages an understanding and accommodating treatment of the issue from my side:

@Infrastructure:

i guess you will win.  i dont like playing this style game.
Luckily there are enough players interested in winning by strategy, not just winning for false status to play against.

This style of game? What are you insinuating?
So I am only interested in playing to win for a false status?
And you’re lucky to have “enough other players” so you don’t have to deal with me?

@Infrastructure:

If you are saying that you dont believe me that i meant to DOW with France but missed it **then you dont understand tactics. **

If you want a win more than a good game the way it was meant to play out.  Then say that now, so i dont waste more of my time.

I don’t understand tactics?
I want a win more than a good game?
Is me placing pressure on you because of my strategy a waste of your time?

Such insults aren’t exactly strong cards to play if you are trying to have me change my mind and let you edit.

this changes nothing.

I made a small mental slip that changed the game uber dramatically.  I tried to correct that mental error within six hours of making it.  That mental error had nothing to do with our strategies.  Your strategy had nothing to do with me forgetting to declare war with france.  Your strategy became get a cheap win off a mental mistake made by someone who tried to remedy it before the game moved on to far.  I asked to fix the situation and to have a good competitive game.  My opponent refused because he wanted the easy win rather than the good game that could have played out.

Arathorn would rather have a cheap win than a good game.  It is as clear as can be.
I said it above and I say it now.

[arathorn]

You sound like a broken record with your repetitions.

You have recently made mental slips against Boldfresh, MrRoboto and now also me. Mental slips are a part of the game, and there is nothing “cheap” about an opponent following up on those mental slips. What if you had made a calculation mistake on how good my odds were on sealion? Your mistake made me delay Germany’s UK attack with one round, as I followed up on the opportunity that placed itself. A worthy opponent of mine recently made the mistake of grossly miscalcing my odds on Moscow, and that won me the game. Should I go back and say: “hey, you have given me 100% on Moscow with 50 surviving units?”

You forgot to declare war. That is a VERY important decision in this scenario, and when you didn’t, it changed my game plan.

We’re playing a game loosely based on WWII events. Anyone who has read anything about WWII history would testify that mental slips, gross mistakes, catastrophic decisions and pure luck played a vital role in the events. Der Fuhrer made tons of poor decisions, intentionally and unintentionally.

You made a mistake - I followed up on it and punished you for it. That is the heart of the matter.

Still waiting for scrambling orders.

[gamerman01]

You cannot expect to be able to change a DOW decision in the middle of your opponent’s next turn.  A 6 hour delay is a long time.  It would only be considered quick if you both had been making a move every 2-3 days or so.

I ruled the Arathorn had no obligation to allow the retroactive DOW, so there should be nothing to discuss regarding that any more and it should not be called cheap.

[Major Major]

I never asked for a ruling from you gamerman.  Arathorn is well wihin the rules of the site.  I have never accused him of cheating.  My entire strategy in the pacific was obvious.  A declaration of war by france was an obvious part of that strategy.  I would have pointed that out to my opponent if it was me.  I definitely would have offered to redo my german turn after it if he had caught his slip up that quickly and I had somehow been the type of player to have capitalized on it.  Competition in this format is different.  That slip wouldn’t have happened in face to face which is the purest form of the game and which is what I strive to emulate.  I believe 90% of the players in this league would have done the same as I stated above, including you gamerman.  It was my obvious INTENT.  I have let players redo their german turn after a fluke failing to take paris on g1 and then lost the game. I have pointed several flaws that would cost an opponent an early game loss because of oversite.  I have no regrets for any that because the games that followed were well played and fun.  Going from that knowledge I do believe if he wins this game it will be a cheap win.  My intent was obvious.  That is my stance and will be moving forward.

[MrRoboto]

Sorry if I’m bouncing in as an outsider here, but I want to give my 2 cents as well.

I understand what you mean Infra. And I am also a player who is very open to edits made from my opponents.

However, as you said, Arathorn was well within the rules here. I agree with you that most players would have agreed to the edit, as it is a form of courtesy. But he is not obliged to do so. Continuing to insult him for that since weeks now isn’t courteous either. Deciding to not allow that edit, even if that is some kind of unfriendly behaviour, does not give you the right to insult him.
Just make a mental note not to play against him in the future.

On the other hand this game could have been over already, since he was able to bump you 3 times so far. You could have said thank you for that, but decided not to do it.

[Major Major]

You are all correct.  I apologize for insulting you arathorn in any way out side of being a player that likes a cheap win.  I do not know you enough to state anything outside of that.
I will be giving scramble orders in the next couple minutes.

[Major Major]

For the record he brought it up again on this last salvo.  I had made my desire to play the game clear twice.
I am very content to play it out with only necessary communication from here on out.

[Major Major]

In do not scramble.

[arathorn]

@Infrastructure:

You are all correct.  I apologize for insulting you arathorn in any way out side of being a player that likes a cheap win.  I do not know you enough to state anything outside of that.
I will be giving scramble orders in the next couple minutes.

I accept your apology. And I understand we have different definitions of cheap wins, and I can live with that.

If I have offended you in any way outside game decisions, I offer my apologies as well.

[arathorn]

The UK battle went very well for me.

After 4 battle calcs, the average TUV swing should be 65,5 - 66,5. The actual battle was 89 which is 22,5 - 23,5 better than the average of 8000 battles run. That means that the reroll option is not available for this battle.

I just wanted to point it out.