@Panther Thanks old chap. Much appreciated.
Why are the allies so gimped lately? Why transports suck?
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@Cow:
Transports can ram into other ships, historically they have done so as well. Though I could only find instances of transports ramming into subs.
In all fairness to transports, they aren’t exactly in big naval showdowns such as midway/wake etc. They are equipped with AA guns and they can ram into stuff.
[sarcasm]Someone call up Larry Harris! We need to get the ship ramming rule into the next revision! :-D [/sarcasm]
You’re absolutely right, i don’t ever recall seeing a mass of transports taking out ships on big naval showdowns like midway/wake. Making you choose transports last i think keeps transports out of major sea battles, which is the way it should be.
Sean, you’re absolutely right - I meant “Transports can defend at 1 but hits cannot be assigned to sea units”. My bad. � :-)
The only thing i can think of why this might not make it into the game, or why it didn’t make it into the game, is because it almost requires a completely extra step during combat. You have opening fire with subs, then you’d have regular combat, then you’d have transport fire that gets assigned to only air units.
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Tanks shoot down fighters in this game… Yet transports cannot ram into ships.
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I could never go back to Classic or Revised with their transport rules. I understand your frustration. However, imagine the frustration of some one attacking a battleship and destroyer with 10 transports as fodder. People got tired of other people ‘abusing’ the transport rule/purchase. How about some one create a poll for this topic? Revised transport rules or 1942 transport rules?
I definitely think transports need to be selected last. That keeps transports from being used as cannon fodder for BB’s n such. But giving no defense to transports is one step too far. The previous rule has already fixed the problem, why add insult to injury?
@Cow:
Tanks shoot down fighters in this game… Yet transports cannot ram into ships.
I see your point. So give transports a defense of 1 against everything, but keep the rule that they have to be selected last as targets in naval battles?
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Less rules. Transports defend @ 1 and can be taken as casualties like everything else.
There was nothing wrong with the old transport rule, sure some people hated getting hit by a 1 roll (Bayder), but it did not make the transport rule bad.
Also it allows germany to do sea lion and actually be a threat to london, so you might see some different games here and there.
I hate the new tank cost being 6. Tanks are bad units for the price, hell even mechanized infantry @ 4 cost attacking at 1 is better on offense than tanks. The cannon fodder factor ends up making mech better.
tanks were never better units than infantry to begin with, so I don’t see why they got hit with the nerfbat. It just means the allies need more units if they can get tank surged with no problem.
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@Cow:
Less rules. Transports defend @ 1 and can be taken as casualties like everything else.
There was nothing wrong with the old transport rule, sure some people hated getting hit by a 1 roll (Bayder), but it did not make the transport rule bad.
Also it allows germany to do sea lion and actually be a threat to london, so you might see some different games here and there.
I hate the new tank cost being 6. Tanks are bad units for the price, hell even mechanized infantry @ 4 cost attacking at 1 is better on offense than tanks (3 mech > 2 tank because of cannon fodder factor by about 6%)
Transports being used as cannon fodder just doesn’t make sense. Making you select them last in combat resolves that issue. Let them continue to defend on a 1, but you have to select them last as targets.
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I don’t know man, the only reason the new transport rules worked in aa50 1941 was because the board was setup so the allies had no chance in the pacific and could make big things happen in europe.
aa50 1942, Russia usually fell to germany.
However it is fair to note, I seldom saw sea lion in aa50 and when I did, it only worked against new players.
So really, the new transport rules only worked in aa50 1941. But that is because the allies were setup properly.
In this version the allies get screwed and they can’t make big things happen like they could in aa50… so obviously they need to start with more units. Perhaps east usa needs to have a cruiser added on top, additional inf for egypt, another inf for london. Then maybe the allies can get poppin sooner.
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@Cow:
I don’t know man, the only reason the new transport rules worked in aa50 1941 was because the board was setup so the allies had no chance in the pacific and could make big things happen in europe.
aa50 1942, Russia usually fell to germany.
However it is fair to note, I seldom saw sea lion in aa50 and when I did, it only worked against new players.
So really, the new transport rules only worked in aa50 1941. But that is because the allies were setup properly.
In this version the allies get screwed and they can’t make big things happen like they could in aa50… so obviously they need to start with more units. Perhaps east usa needs to have a cruiser added on top, additional inf for egypt, another inf for london. Then maybe the allies can get poppin sooner.
I think adding additional starting units for either US or UK is definately a better option than to drop the transports take hits last rule. Or possibly reducing the number of starting naval units for Germany, like drop that second sub from SZ9.
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global, 1941, and 1942 is anti aggressive allies strategies as far as europe goes.
I guess something different may be better for some. aa50 is my favorite.
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@Cow:
Also it allows germany to do sea lion and actually be a threat to london, so you might see some different games here and there.
I hope you are not claiming that Sea Lion works on Revised (since it’s the last game with the old rule)… ROFL :D
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@Cow:
Also it allows germany to do sea lion and actually be a threat to london, so you might see some different games here and there.
I hope you are not claiming that Sea Lion works on Revised… ROFL :D
I did it once… Only once… But it was GLORIOUS!!! They never saw it coming. G2 takes Brittan… Game over. YAY AXIS!
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@Cow:
Also it allows germany to do sea lion and actually be a threat to london, so you might see some different games here and there.
I hope you are not claiming that Sea Lion works on Revised… ROFL :D
I did it once… Only once… But it was GLORIOUS!!! They never saw it coming. G2 takes Brittan… Game over. YAY AXIS!
Well I did it once too and even conquered the Western US once or twice… all usually against new players… the point is that it depends on very bad mistakes by the Allies.
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@Cow:
Also it allows germany to do sea lion and actually be a threat to london, so you might see some different games here and there.
I hope you are not claiming that Sea Lion works on Revised… ROFL :D
I did it once… Only once… But it was GLORIOUS!!! They never saw it coming. G2 takes Brittan… Game over. YAY AXIS!
Well I did it once too and even conquered the Western US once or twice… all usually against new players… the point is that it depends on very bad mistakes by the Allies.
It was like a perfect storm. I had a long history of building naval units on G1, so when i bought some transports they didn’t really think twice. Plus my opponent was on this UK1 IC in India “plan”, so he wasn’t building much of anything in Brittan and instead focusing on getting the shucking started between US/UK and Europe as fast as possible.
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Ok I’m a newb to the game, only played 1942 1st and 2nd edition but why don’t they make it to where transports only defend when they are the last unit left, and only for one round of combat or something. Simulates their limited armament compared to other ships and makes it so where they aren’t overpowered by using as fodder or rolling a 1 every round which in my opinion is too much. � also helps alleviate peoples complaints about them not defending at all. �I think it’d make it a lil more interesting then having a sea battle where you just have to take out someones, say, cruiser and destroyer to auto-take their 2 transports, instead have to plan to go a little further to take out the transports. So it would be sorta similar to the bombing raids. Special abilities could allow the combat to be ignored with subs.
Like i said, new to the game and the forums, have lurked for a bit but let me know your thoughts.
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@hobbes, yeah sea lion did work sometimes. you could almost always get 30%ish or take the fleet to the medit sea or conduct operation hollywood.
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@Cow:
@hobbes, yeah sea lion did work sometimes. you could almost always get 30%ish or take the fleet to the medit sea or conduct operation hollywood.
I know they can work but Sea Lion, Hollywood, Polar Express or any KAF/KBF strat depends too much on the element of surprise and confusion on the opponent’s side. On the example given so far it’s just suicidal for the Allies to build an UK1 IC on India if Germany buys all naval and the worst strategy since as Allies you want the Axis to go naval instead of using those IPCs against Russia.
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yeah well sometimes if it didn’t work out you get the fleet to the med sea and you can be in a solid position still. or if you can try to take uk over… you can almost always get a decent fight for it… 30%~ is not too bad.
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I think the answer to the question why are the allies so gimpy is the map killed shuck. Well not killed it but made the cost x2. Shuck was simple for those that don’t know. USA buys a transport, loads 2 guys, and drops them off in Europe while that transport is in Europe USA buys another transport and 2 guys. It’s basically the transports getting the guys into the fight from USA into France, Norway or North Africa in one turn. Now it’s 2 turns to get there and 2 more turns to get back meaning. To get the same results of 2 transports before you now need 4. and You transports are vulnerable to attack in two places within range of enemy aircraft so the defense fleet has to be twice the size also.
If you don’t believe me try the new transport rules on the Classic map. Hell play '42.2 rules and all on a classic map. You’ll see shuck wins the day and they Alllies aren’t gimpy.
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If you don’t believe me try the new transport rules on the Classic map. Hell play '42.2 rules and all on a classic map. You’ll see shuck wins the day and they Alllies aren’t gimpy.
Well Axis bids on Classic map go up to 24 IPCs so that game is clearly considered unbalanced towards Allies. :)
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If you don’t believe me try the new transport rules on the Classic map. Hell play '42.2 rules and all on a classic map. You’ll see shuck wins the day and they Alllies aren’t gimpy.
Well Axis bids on Classic map go up to 24 IPCs so that game is clearly considered unbalanced towards Allies. :)
Hey talking bad about Classic is fighting words take it back. :-D And I’m only speaking of using the Classic map + set up but '42.2 rules and units. You’ll see how much the smaller atlantic helps the Allies.
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But it’s so easy to do your shuck through east Canada.
IE:
- US builds 2 transports and 4 guys.
- US sends 4 guys north to Canada and 2 Transports north to sz
- Send to Europe. (2 SZ)
All the map did is delay the US landings by 1 turn and then everything functions exactly as usual. What’s the big deal?
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