I think there are quite a few powerful techs in the game - HB is probably still the king but the gap between some of these techs is smaller now - the industrial tech (name escapes me) that adds +2 builds and halves the effects of SBR has some serious strategic implications, double strength AA is scary too if your opponent has gone airforce heavy. Theres more but I feel tech is better balanced now.
I’d agree that the techs for Air units are overpowered, while Sea techs are underpowered. Combined that the increased size of the board and lowered cost of Bombers, and you have Air units excelling.
Lets compare
Air: Gets Heavy Bombers(Best Tech in the Game), Paratroopers(Powerful and Abusive), Long Range Aircraft(Powerful and Abusive), Jet Fighters(Powerful, but reasonable).
Sea: Gets Improved Shipyards(Ships cost 15-20% less, which won’t pay itself off until you buy 60 or so IPCs worth of Ships, and doesn’t boost existing Air), and Super Subs(which is useful only if you are able to use Subs).
wodan, that’s totally my problem is that air is already very strong but once you add some techs to them, boats just dont even have a chance, and in all our last games no one will make boats knowing they will loose them all and the loss of 1 or 2 or even 3 transports along with them which is just money that goes down the drain… i would way rather make bombers then boats bombers will kill ships and transports with them for alot less money loss plus when ships arent around your bombers are helping attack land or bomb raids. while all ships really do is try to help escort and protect transports.
Improved Shipyards is replaced with Mobile Fleet: Carriers, Cruisers, and Subs have 3 Movement, and may move during noncombat even if they participated in a battle.
Super Subs is replaced with Capital Ships: Battleships roll 2 Dice
I think that’s why the Allies have such a tough time in this game. UK and USA require a blue water navy to operate. For certain Italy needs to maintain a fortilla, but Japan is so well insulated, being able to halt any American movements with planes or through factory building in Asia.
Wodan thats not a bad idea cause really super subs are crap for allies anyways, its not like axis are going to build boats. I’m going to talk to the boys and see if they want to make those rule changes, but something has to be changed cause right now any fleet being build trying to excort transports are getting nuked by bombers and fighters.I think the whole research lines should be fixed maybe thats what we should start is a thread for New better research lines and get everyones ideas. i would love for carriers to be able to have 3 fighters on them, and AA guns on battle ships :-o
Wodan thats not a bad idea cause really super subs are crap for allies anyways, its not like axis are going to build boats.
I disagree. With US buying Subs, Japan will HAVE to buy some DD’s.
Give the Subs some back up with a small carrier based fleet (loaded A/C, some DDs)
I would hesitate to incorporate house rules until you’ve tried many different strategies.
House rules should not compensate for poor strategies.
Japan or the usa just builds all bombers and fighters the other wont have boats. they all will be dead.
I agree that house rules should be used sparingly, and only after fully playtesting the game. But battleships having a tech to get two rolls is a good counterpart to heavy bombers. Battleships are slightly less useful with the advent of cruisers and this would compensate for that. Plus, Capitol Ships just sounds cool. :-D
Need to think about the capitol ship thing, when do they get two attacks? Attacking, Defending and Shore bombardment? If so does it always attack on a 4 on all those instances? Do you get two shore shots for one transport offload or do you need two for the extra shot? HB’s attack on a 4 twice but definitely do not defend on a 4 and they don’t get shore bombardment. Just some stuff to consider about what house rules you are making.
If Germany is buying all aircraft to kill Allied fleet builds, what on earth are the Soviets doing the whole time? :?
Red Army tanks should be rolling into Berlin within a couple turns…
Need to think about the capitol ship thing, when do they get two attacks? Attacking, Defending and Shore bombardment? If so does it always attack on a 4 on all those instances? Do you get two shore shots for one transport offload or do you need two for the extra shot? HB’s attack on a 4 twice but definitely do not defend on a 4 and they don’t get shore bombardment. Just some stuff to consider about what house rules you are making.
Attack and Defense, not for Bombardment. While Bombers only get the 4+4 on attack, they also cost 12, move 6, may participate in land battles, and can retreat from the frontline. Battleships cost 20, move 2, may not participate in land battles for more than one, and are left exposed on the frontline when they attack. Heavy Bombers is still better than Capital Ships.
So we played another game last night and all i did was build bombers, a few fighters and inf with germany, US had carriers and destroyers and battle ships and 2 transports, We didnt play with research cause well its just broken ATM This was the problem Carriers cost 14 they defend for 2, 2 fighters defend at 4’s if i attack with 1 fighter 2 bombers its same amount of money but odds are in my favour, let alone the free transports that go down and the other boats. i have around 10 bombers with a few fighters on germany i dont have to worry about gaurding my back land like france cause well there is never any boats. rest of the time my planes and inf are moving up the lines and raid bombing the crap out of everyone.
Now if you add research to all my planes well it’s lights out. Boats as is can’t go up against planes and boats do nothing but transport and odd bombardment… planes Do it all!!! the research should of gone to mainly boats not planes… why would you give the most powerfull unit more power? If all those planes research went to boats you would have a fighting chance at least against planes. Any way as is we just dont build boats… its a loss of over all money.
Here are my revised versions of the two replacement Naval Techs.
Mobile Fleets: Your ships may move 1 during the non-combat phase in addition to their regular movement/attack.
Capital Ships: Undamaged Battleships now roll two dice in Naval Battles. Cruisers Attack and Defend on 4s.
Gunna have to agree, if your opponent has HB and or JF/LRA then you just build Radar Equipped AA Guns and Improved Manufacturing and negate most of their abilities.
That’s the beautiful thing about AA50, all the techs are designed to reduce the effectiveness of the other techs!
boats have nothing good against planes thats the problem. Then you have to give battleships AA guns. it’s the only way to give boats a little fighting chance against planes.
@Cmdr:
Gunna have to agree, if your opponent has HB and or JF/LRA then you just build Radar Equipped AA Guns and Improved Manufacturing and negate most of their abilities.
That’s the beautiful thing about AA50, all the techs are designed to reduce the effectiveness of the other techs!
Except that the odds of you getting the right defensive tech is low, given that Radar and Improved Manufacturing are in different branches. Furthermore, neither of those techs helps Navies at all, or ground units much, all it does is protect against SBRs.
wodan would you rather navel movement or battleships with aa guns? i think i would rather a AA gun to at least knock downa couple planes
I’d love to lower Air movement by 2 for fighters and Bombers (wait…whats that? the villagers are coming with their pitchforks and torches!!!) I’ll have to be brief! This makes getting long range aircraft more important and cuts down on the outrageous range of aircraft which in turn makes it less likely that people would buy so many. Islands and Aircraft Carriers are now way more important and worth fighting for. Of course you would lower the cost of fighters to say 8? but 12 IPC’s seems low enough for Bombers almost too low compared to 10 for fighters.
Other than that Heavy bombers are here to stay and Battleships with AA guns?? I’m sure the guys at Pearl Harbor wish they had that much firepower also. Increased movement for ships is nice but how does a sub outpace a destroyer? a 2 for movement works and keeps the Pacific a little more strategic and less gotcha moves.
I did like the suggestion of two shots for Battleships that would make them really nasty
Ok Played another game tonight! and well boats got owned allies tried everything. and my bombers and fighters took over all the waters! then it hit me what if Carriers defended with a 3!! so now you have 14 dollars that buy a carrier and 2 fighters for 20 bucks so 34 dollars to 2 bombers and fighter attacking! same amount of money. You still got battle ships 20bucks but can take a hit but thats = to 2 fighters that roll 2 dice so pretty even, Destroyers cost 8 but only roll a 2, but can take a hit which is good seeing your going to have at least 1 or 2 transports in your fleet that cost you 7 or 14 dollars that dont defend so you have to add that cost into your fleet, so boats even with this still get the bad end of the deal… but its getting better!! But research for planes is out of the question! you add heavy bomber or long range aircraft or jet fighters, then boats dont have a chance! so guys Lets keep the ideas coming so we can make boats an actual part of the game.
Cause once you loose your fleet you aint rebuilding it when axis has 10 bombers ready to attack your new fleet!
