• '21 '20 '18 '17

    The consensus here is that UK should either buy 6 infantry or 1 fighter, or 2 fighters and 1-2 men/arty. That’s still not enough stuff to stop Germany esp later on the the game so that’s just the obligatory 1st turn UK buy.

    My friends would get pretty mad at me if I forfeited the game on turn 1. I can’t say I’ve never whined about getting diced or making a bad move, but I’d play out at least 4 turns just to make it fair to them. Think about good you feel when you get amazing luck and get to stomp on the competition–you should let them do that too even when the stomp-ee is you.

    Once all their stuff is together and they have 2 transports, they have a variety of things they can do. Yes, that fleet is still vulnerable but now UK has to spend turns 2-4 being wary of Egypt and the MIddle East/Middle Earth zone being threatened. You can’t build in peace and consolidate your position. Really, the kicker is what I said originally–Italy is a gigantic liability to Germany if its weak and Germany has to divert planes and soliders to protect rome rather than having Rome as a helper. The US can easily take Rome with a 4-turn-build fleet and the German player would divert mobility units to SItaly (infantry are too slow to get there and Northern Italy’s stack is weak as well cutting off the lines of communication).

    Once America is in SZ 91, the writing is on the wall for the Italian Fleet and Capital anyways, unless Germany does something about that. Its more about buying time with Italy, and getting that can opener ready so that Russia falls before Italy does.


  • @taamvan said in Australia first? Kind of?:

    The consensus here is that UK should either buy 6 infantry or 1 fighter, or 2 fighters and 1-2 men/arty. That’s still not enough stuff to stop Germany esp later on the the game so that’s just the obligatory 1st turn UK buy.

    My friends would get pretty mad at me if I forfeited the game on turn 1. I can’t say I’ve never whined about getting diced or making a bad move, but I’d play out at least 4 turns just to make it fair to them. Think about good you feel when you get amazing luck and get to stomp on the competition–you should let them do that too even when the stomp-ee is you.

    Once all their stuff is together and they have 2 transports, they have a variety of things they can do. Yes, that fleet is still vulnerable but now UK has to spend turns 2-4 being wary of Egypt and the MIddle East/Middle Earth zone being threatened. You can’t build in peace and consolidate your position. Really, the kicker is what I said originally–Italy is a gigantic liability to Germany if its weak and Germany has to divert planes and soliders to protect rome rather than having Rome as a helper. The US can easily take Rome with a 4-turn-build fleet and the German player would divert mobility units to SItaly (infantry are too slow to get there and Northern Italy’s stack is weak as well cutting off the lines of communication).

    Once America is in SZ 91, the writing is on the wall for the Italian Fleet and Capital anyways, unless Germany does something about that. Its more about buying time with Italy, and getting that can opener ready so that Russia falls before Italy does.

    It is precisely because of that (have to forfait a game that is screwed from UK1 up) that i was looking for alternatives for taranto. But the experience shows that either on UK2 or UK3 you still end up with a big (sea) battle against italian air and navy in a kind of taranto2.0. off course the rest of the board also looks a bit diffrent. Once again yes in 90% of the games taranto will work out, but in the 10% it doesn’t (dices can be cruel) it is almost a game over.

    An argument pro Gibastion is the fact that sea lion becomes nearly impssible for germany (on the condition you keep your UK fleet and fighters intact until UK2.

    An other plan i have ben playing with is to save the UK carrier in the red sea, and built a BB in south africa on UK2 and a carrier in india on UK1 (when no j1 DOW). Thus combining those two fleets you are almost equal in size as the japanese navy (2 BB and 2 carriers versus 2BB and 3 carriers).

  • '21 '20 '18 '17

    Did you bring all the pieces we listed? In my experience, if you are getting completely diced out its because some things didn’t come (occasionally this has been because of a bad setup missing units hurrying).

    Either way, quitting from the results of one battle seems extreme. And like I said before, you can taranto AND save the CV but it requires more luck and order-of-casualties and so it just adds to the risk of a dice out.

    With respect, I would never do the buy you describe. BB isn’t going to do much in the geometry of that area. Wasting UKPAC money on ships is suicide. The Japanese have so many planes its not going to matter what kind of fleet you have if his intention is to demolish India.


  • I get around a 94% odds in the Taranto battle if you go all-in. Usually the Axis chooses not to scramble and either takes out the UK fleet with the Italians on I1 or the Germans on G2. The biggest question will be how many Axis planes are lost in the battles, with outcomes ranging from 0 to 5.

    If half of the German air force is lost in the first couple of rounds, the game shifts dramatically with Moscow not being in danger for a much longer time and the Allies able to land forces in W Europe way earlier. In the OOB rules in PBEM games, the Allies are at such a massive disadvantage that they need to pray for an early turn dicing to have any chance of winning. Avoiding major conflicts just ensures that Moscow will fall around G6, followed by an inevitable economic victory for the Axis if they choose one of the long-term strategies like Dark Skies.

    Get in big battles early if you are playing Allies and don’t wait until you have overwhelming odds, since that will never come against a strong opponent. Sometimes you have to opt for battles with only a 25% chance of a favorable Allied outcome since that can be as good as it gets.


  • @taamvan said in Australia first? Kind of?:

    Did you bring all the pieces we listed? In my experience, if you are getting completely diced out its because some things didn’t come (occasionally this has been because of a bad setup missing units hurrying).

    Either way, quitting from the results of one battle seems extreme. And like I said before, you can taranto AND save the CV but it requires more luck and order-of-casualties and so it just adds to the risk of a dice out.

    With respect, I would never do the buy you describe. BB isn’t going to do much in the geometry of that area. Wasting UKPAC money on ships is suicide. The Japanese have so many planes its not going to matter what kind of fleet you have if his intention is to demolish India.

    Yes even when you bring in two fighters from london. I’m talking about when Italy scrambles then you have 1 in 10 of losing the battle . In those scenario’s we also have been continuing the game, but it’s very clear that the allies have to make a huge effort to recover from that (nearly impossible). I am talking about games without a bid.

    The idea of buying a BB is only an idea bc i’ve never tried it myself. But i saw Siredblood’s film on youtube and he proclames why not buying a carrier UK1 in Pacific. But never tried it before because of the reason you describe.


  • @Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Australia first? Kind of?:

    I get around a 94% odds in the Taranto battle if you go all-in. Usually the Axis chooses not to scramble and either takes out the UK fleet with the Italians on I1 or the Germans on G2. The biggest question will be how many Axis planes are lost in the battles, with outcomes ranging from 0 to 5.

    If half of the German air force is lost in the first couple of rounds, the game shifts dramatically with Moscow not being in danger for a much longer time and the Allies able to land forces in W Europe way earlier. In the OOB rules in PBEM games, the Allies are at such a massive disadvantage that they need to pray for an early turn dicing to have any chance of winning. Avoiding major conflicts just ensures that Moscow will fall around G6, followed by an inevitable economic victory for the Axis if they choose one of the long-term strategies like Dark Skies.

    Get in big battles early if you are playing Allies and don’t wait until you have overwhelming odds, since that will never come against a strong opponent. Sometimes you have to opt for battles with only a 25% chance of a favorable Allied outcome since that can be as good as it gets.

    True, if you send everything it’s is 94%. Our Ger player usually attacks the cruiser in SZ91 so doing taranto and attacking the It transport and destroyer next to malta demands units that normally go to taranto, and thus it’s not 94% anymore. When UK goes all in that means London is vulnerable, even with the UK1 buy of 6Inf and a fighter. Do you then play to keep london or retake after sea lion?


  • @Arthur-Bomber-Harris Sorry, new guy question. What is an economic victory in OOB rules?

  • '21 '20 '18 '17

    @Stough I believe hes speaking referentially–you are so overwhelmed by the Axis reaching income threshold (often 70/60). Once they get the russian factories and kill a player, its not a game that can be won 2v2.

    The only “official” econ victory is in G42/tournament play, that I know of.

    Recall in Sireds’ version (at least last year) you can’t even build capital ships at the edges of the boards without an upgrade


  • @Stough if the Axis captures Moscow, India, China, and the Iraq before the Allies have a major threat to capture an Axis capitol, the Germans and Japanese can focus on the long-game plan of massive air force in Europe and massive navy in the Pacific. Eventually, a slight economic advantage will allow them to force the Allies to surrender.

    If you can build 5 planes/round for Germany, the mobility will make the USA/UK position untenable as they can’t afford to protect Egypt, their W European beach head(s), and their fleet. The Allies will eventually quit without needing to actually capture a final victory territory. There won’t even be a major decisive battle for play-by-email games as you can carefully avoid any significant combat which would have disadvantageous odds. A bit boring, but effective.


  • I think this topic just shows how far up my caboose my head is. I’m so new and playing my first two game by forum. WOW! There is sooooo much I don’t know about how to play this game.


  • @Stough It takes about 5 games to even get the basic principles, 50 games to become good, and 500 games to become a “master”. There are so many nuances to the strategies and mistakes take a long time to reveal themselves. An incorrect move on round 1 will have dramatic consequences on your options on turn 7+ because the advantages help produce even more advantages later on. That one extra plane will not only destroy so many units over the course of the game, but also give you extra income to buy more planes.

    After you play a few games and get the basics, watch the moves that experts make in their games and see how the matches play out over the next turns. When you see a good Axis opening, memorize it and use it frequently until you master it. Then try a different Axis opening.


  • That is really great advice and observations.

    My first game was just a disaster in operating Triple A and how little I knew how the rules actually impacted the game.

    My second game, I’m much better on those, still some holes, but now it’s like getting to the top of a hill and seeing that I’m actually just on the first foothill with the Himalayas before me. The whole scrambling thing still makes my head explode. And the wastefulness of my purchases has been amazingly flagrant. The Allies are fricken complicated.

    This game is pretty awesome, because learning all of that stuff makes it fun and will keep me coming back to it.

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