G1 input

[AxisOfEvil]

@hyogoetophile:

As either Axis player, I’ll generally take Caucasus whenever I can get it, as long as I’m not sacrificing too much to do so. If it’s a pretty equal trade (German or Japanese stack for Russian stack), then go go go!

Yes. This must be a given. If you can get caucus without losing much heavy equipment, do it. It is what I meant by I dont trade caucus, unless it is poorly defended.

[Jennifer]

But you CAN hit Caucasus on Germany 1.  Just not “usually” hehe.

[Guest]

Caucuses can indeed be hit G1, and sometimes with REALLY GOOD odds for a German win.

TRN plus TRN Bid in SZ14 get 4 units, plus a BB shot, plus the Ukraine forces, plus FIGs and BOM, plus EE and BAL ARM…  The odds get pretty sweet pretty fast for Germany.

The problem is the MULTIPLE counters that Germany will face:  UK, USA and USSR…
And the fact that Germany has almost no land forces left in Central Europe after that initial grab.

Advantage Russia in most cases from a G1 Caucuses grab

(the exception is when you can walk in almost free… especially if you get to SBR it for free before taking it, as in when some folks virtually abandon Caucuses on R1 and pull their AA out…)

[Romulus]

@AxisOfEvil:

@Romulus:

Axis, thread title is “G1 input” and in it seems to me that in G1 also you go for Karelia.
Generally, also I prefer to go for Karelia, Belorussia and Ukraine, regrouping panzers and infantries in EE. When I go for Caucasus I try to take and hold it in order to buy units there.
However if in R1 Russia had bad dice and is possible to take Caucasus and start to trade it conveniently it could be a viable solution.
Personally I think that advancing in Russia without the Japanese support is premature and can be done only if Russia is weak and Allies are not supporting her closely.

Yes Romulus. Thank you for reminding me what the title of the thread was. My problem was that i got caught up in responding to the content of his post. It seemed to me he was referring to a long term route to moscow question. I mean, you can’t even hit Caucus G1 can you? Regardless of the thread title, the OP wanted to know if you should put pressure on moscow thru ARCH or CAUCUS. We might even being saying the same thing, where I like holding Karelia early as a defensive move. But wehn i want to put pressure on Moscow, i take Caucus usually.

Axis, I agree with your strategic approach.

In fact hitting Caucasus in G1 can be done only in two ways. Preparing this move, as Switch said, adding a bid TRN to the Med Fleet or exploiting the situations in wich Russian player abandon Caucasus.
The first option, however, I dislike because, as Switch noted, leave German opened to many counters, and do not allows for gains in Africa.
If Russia leave Caucasus it is possible for Germany to trade it every turn starting from G1, that may be very good for German income.
So taking Caucasus in G1 may be done only in particular cases and it is not always advantageous to do.

Going on in the game also I, like you, prefer to increase pressure on Russia taking and holding Caucasus in order to build units there.

[Guest]

If you can get it for a 1 INF walk in, TAKE IT!  If you can SBR it for free DO SO.

Other than that, you better think long and hard about a G1 strike on Caucuses…

[Aretaku]

I generally favor African expansion, so I’m pretty conservative early on against Russia when I’m playing as Germany. I’ll stack Karelia sometimes, but I’m as apt to simply stack EEU, prepare for a later push, and wait for Russia to do something stupid.

Also, as Switch said, I would not enter Caucausus with ground units unless I can take it with 1 Inf

…recall that in the real war, Germany was well established in Stalingrad, but eventually lost the battle, and never recovered.

It can work just the same way in this game. It’s no fun playing as the Axis when the game is all but decided before Round 2 is even over.

[Jennifer]

I actually prefer when Russia stacks W. Russia up on Russia one Allowing Germany to eliminate the entire Russian army on Germany 1.  I’ll even let Egypt survive in that case if I have too because Russia is now virtually defenseless. (2 Fighters + their builds and some extra infantry.)

[Funcioneta]

The Karelia stack on G1 is a pain for allies. A true pain  :oops:

[Jennifer]

@Funcioneta:

The Karelia stack on G1 is a pain for allies. A true pain  :oops:

I don’t really find it much of a pain.  Inconvenient for a turn, yes, but honestly, the German stack on Karelia is very hard to maintain for Germany.  Especially if Russia stacks Ukraine with a “motivated Reconnaissance team” (aka a large stack of 13+ infantry and 5 or 6 tanks.)

This alone will force Germany to pull down from Karelia to E. Europe to stop the Russian advance allowing England to liberate Karelia or take Norway.

OR

Russia can have a nice stack in W. Russia with plenty to destroy the Germans in Karelia with a strafe making life really tough on the Germans.

In both cases, one really needs to be set up for it with Russia on Russia 1 so you can do it on Russia 2.  Which is another reason I don’t advocate the Ukraine attack on Russia 1 anymore, but rather W. Russia only or W. Russia and Belorussia. (hitting Belorussia basically ends Germany’s aspirations of stacking Karelia, hitting W. Russia conserves your forces in a nice large stack forcing Germany to commit an all out attack or be conservative itself.)

[Crazy Ivan]

:-o
An R1 Karilia stack! I’ve never seen an R1 Karilia stack that I couldn’t smash to smitherines. What utter folly!

[Jennifer]

@Crazy:

:-o
An R1 Karilia stack! I’ve never seen an R1 Karilia stack that I couldn’t smash to smitherines. What utter folly!

Yea?  Who said a d@mn thing about a Karelia stack with Russia on Russia 1?

I said that Russia can be really well set up to demolish any stack Germany puts in Karelia on Round 1 if Russia just plans for it on their Round 1 attacks.

Very easy to have 9 or 10 infantry, 2 artillery and 4 armor in W. Russia with 8 Infantry, 3 armor, 2 fighters in Russia itself.  There’s not a blasted thing Germany can stack in Karelia that will withstand 9 or 10 infantry, 2 artillery, 7 armor and 2 fighters.  Not on round 1!

[newpaintbrush]

Mmm . . . stacked Karelians.

[captainjack]

Okay, be nice, because what I’m about to say will probably be a really dumb idea.  I’m curious to know if anyone has tried an ultra-conservative German strategy.  Let’s say Russia only attacked WRussia on R1, and abandoned Karelia (which is not an unfamiliar Russian opening), instead of Germany going on the offensive and trying to break through all those darn Russian infantry, what if Germany makes no attacks (except Karelia) on the mainland (I’m not referring to naval attacks in the Med) and just fortifies it’s line (Karelia, Belo, and Ukraine) for a couple rounds until Japan gets a little stronger on the mainland.
Okay, maybe that’s just the stupidest idea ever, but I’m still interested to know your thoughts.  Thanks.

[losttribe04]

I could only see that happening if…

Germany went hardcore into Africa and massed troops on the Russian front.

Or Germany devoted more attention to the Atlantic fleet and massed troops on the russian front.

I think Germany needs to make a buffer for itself some where very early on.

But stranger things have happened.

LT

[captainjack]

@LT04:

I could only see that happening if…

Germany went hardcore into Africa and massed troops on the Russian front.

Or Germany devoted more attention to the Atlantic fleet and massed troops on the russian front.

I think Germany needs to make a buffer for itself some where very early on.

But stranger things have happened.

LT

Yeah, I was thinking more towards Africa.  Obviously take Egypt on G1, and a G1 trn purchase for the Med.

[Corbeau Blanc]

IF Russia went conservative, I almost always do what you said with Germany which is being conservative myself.

That’s a classic german turtle, mass forces in Eastern Europe, swap the 3 territories.

I also tend to only defend Western Europe and Norway G1-G2 depending on allies possible landings. After that i invite them on the beach by removing all troops and AA guns, poising my troops for a decisive counter that does not make it worthwhile for them to land.

The idea is to offer minimum troops to the ennemy while creating  dead zones. For this to be efficient, you mainly build infantry backed by your aviation. Build stack after stack of infantry with the occasional fighter or 2 tanks.

You also need to invest one AC in baltic and possibly one more transport in med, you can even invest a second AC if UK is building up to sink it. Once you reach the conclusion allies will be able to sink it, remove the 4 fighters and be contempt they invested past 80ipc for your 32ipc.

And yea, go heavy in Africa. I never found adding transports in Med was a bad move, for that and the fact you get more and more pression on caucasus doing so.

By the time allies crack a well made German Turtle, a turtle that keeps it’s head in the shell, Japan should be in Moscow.

So Yes CaptainJack, it’s a good strategy if you discipline yourself buying mainly infantry, offering no easy opportunity and holding your ground for Japan. This is in the context of a KGF and if Russia did not take Ukraine ( if they did bleed their troops doing so, i always roll over them )

[captainjack]

Wow, so it’s not uncommon for you to buy an A/C and 2 transports on G1 - if you are conducting a “German Turtle”

[Corbeau Blanc]

8 Bid transport in med
G1 AC + infantry.
G2 extra transport if needed + infantry
etc…

It’s a pretty common opening.
From G2, you spend everything in infantry per turn , except about 10 ipc for tanks OR a fighter OR a boat. Exception, maybe G4 OR G5 where you might buy a new AC for Baltic if allies took the bait and are building up to try sink that fleet, as i explained above.

[captainjack]

I wonder how it would work in my situation (none of the guys I play with use a bid).

[Jennifer]

Pulling back when Russia goes W. Russia only can be a good idea.  It conserves forces and Germany has more than enough air power to trade three territories (whereas Russia only has barely enough to trade two.)

However, if Russia went ULTRA HARD into W. Russia and you got some lucky punches in, it may be in your best interest to crash through the entire Russian army and destroy it followed by building up some more armies yourself.  This generally results in a more frantic and less thought out campaign by England and America to rush to Russia’s aid. (And after all, Germany’s more than able to pump out infantry and tanks again afterwards anyway!)

As for deadzoning W. Europe, ick!  If I want England or America landing there, I always make sure it will at least cost them 2 infantry to take it, maybe more.  Otherwise they make a profit!