Presidential Election (as a current event- watch the tone or it's gone)

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I keep saying you are playing McCain up too much.  He does not have the support that is reported.  Of course, maybe the democrats are doing to the Republicans what the Republicans are doing to the democrats here in Illinois? (Getting their party to caucus for the democrat that is easier to beat or is less feared?)

    That could explain McCain’s numbers after all.  Anyway, one should always be suspicious when the media is touting someone as the person they want to be the candidate when you KNOW they are not going to vote for them.  So why support them?  Maybe because he’s the easier one to beat?  Maybe because he’s the one who will not get the support from the people to be a challenge?  If the New York Times and the Washington Post are going to endorse McCain there has to be a reason other then they think he’ll be a good President, since we know that they will be voting for Obama or Clinton (probably Clinton) in November.

    What that means is that any republican who wants to see the White House stay red instead of turn blue, should NOT vote for McCain.


  • what about independend candidates which arent from either Republican either Democratic party,

    i read somewhere that in Elections2000, Gore lost Florida, or some other state i am not quite sure, beacuse the independent man ˝took˝ him the votes, if that one didnt nominate, Gore would of won that state, and the elections

    now i have 2 questions

    -can ˝the independent ones˝ affect much in the states, where the advantage of either camp is very small( and in which states if yes)

    -and when has( if it is ) last time happened that somebody which is not from either Democrat either Republican party, wins in one of the states

    thanks

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Bill Clinton won in 1992 and 1996 because Ross Perot ran as an independent and “took” votes from the Republican.  I think that’s a very bad way to view it, but there’s almost no question that without Ross Perot, Bill Clinton would have probably lost in 1992 and may have won by a very, very slim margin in 1996.

    So yes, if someone like Huckabee were to team up with Leiberman they could cause all kinds of strife for the Republican Party.  Likewise, if Edwards and McCain were to team up they could cause all kinds of strife for the Democrat Party.


  • There is a growing effort in the United States to have a viable 3rd party.  The most likely party to take that mantle is the Libertarian Party (the only other party besides the Democrats and Republicans to have candidates on the ballot in all 50 states).

    And there is a massive thought that Ron Paul, currently in 5th place among the Republican field, will be the Libertarian nominee for President.

    And while I am personally a Libertarian, with an outlook of social liberalism and fiscal conservatism, I think that the REVERSE of my beliefs is in the majority in this nation (social conservative, fiscal liberal).  To support that claim I simply have to point to the back to back elections of Bush 43 to support my claims (he has increased federal spending faster than any previous president including FDR and LBJ while also being a Fundamentalist Christian Conservative).

    With that in mind, I see NO candidate in the current field with a chance of victory from the majority of American thought.  Instead I see only the opportunity for a victory from the candidate closest to the current political ideology.  And for that I declare Hillary Rhodam Clinton to be the closest to what America voted for in 2004, and thus the probable winner in 2008.


  • And YES… I just equated Bush 43 and Hitlery as being equivalent values.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    And YES… I just equated Bush 43 and Hitlery as being equivalent values.

    Which goes along nicely with my statement the past couple of years that Bush (43) is no Republican.  He was in Texas, but ever since he’s been in DC he’s been a democrat through and through.

    And, considering how bad he’s screwed things up while trying to pretend to be a republican, just imagine how badly things will be screwed up when we get a liberal who isn’t even pretending to be a republican?


  • @ncscswitch:

    There is a growing effort in the United States to have a viable 3rd party.  The most likely party to take that mantle is the Libertarian Party (the only other party besides the Democrats and Republicans to have candidates on the ballot in all 50 states).

    And there is a massive thought that Ron Paul, currently in 5th place among the Republican field, will be the Libertarian nominee for President.

    And while I am personally a Libertarian, with an outlook of social liberalism and fiscal conservatism, I think that the REVERSE of my beliefs is in the majority in this nation (social conservative, fiscal liberal).  To support that claim I simply have to point to the back to back elections of Bush 43 to support my claims (he has increased federal spending faster than any previous president including FDR and LBJ while also being a Fundamentalist Christian Conservative).

    With that in mind, I see NO candidate in the current field with a chance of victory from the majority of American thought.  Instead I see only the opportunity for a victory from the candidate closest to the current political ideology.  And for that I declare Hillary Rhodam Clinton to be the closest to what America voted for in 2004, and thus the probable winner in 2008.

    so only one party-besides Dem and Rep has candidates in all 50 states

    the others are more less individuals who candidate in their home state?!

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Well, the Kennedy clan just endorsed Obama.  I hear it was a rough decision, Obama or McCain. :P

    Seriously though, I was surprised, then I remembered, that the Kennedy’s and Clinton’s don’t exactly have a buddy/buddy relationship with each trying to be the identity of the Democrat Party.

    Still, with the Kennedy’s out there campaigning, not just endorsing, Obama, and Hillary’s speeches being seen as racist (whether they were intended to be or not) I don’t think Hillary has much of a chance anymore.

    And in Florida, Romney has 33%, McCain 27%.  Looks like Romney will get another win today.  Hopefully Thompson will either tell his followers to vote Paul or Romney and so will Guilliani.  Though, I suspect Guilliani being a pocket Republican will endorse McCain.


  • i can’t direct people to the speach (i wish i could and i will when i find it on the net) where Bill said something along the lines of “if McCain and Mrs Clinton are the two nominations it will be the nicest presidental race in history as they both get a long so well.” that is not a direct quote as i can’t remember the exact words.
    now with that said, i did not get it off line, i was listening to the radio this mornning on my way to work and it was a sound bite played.
    now my take on it is that if the Clintions and McCain’s are such good friends, then we have a seriouse problem if we have McCain as the Republican nomination. although it might be funny (if not so sad) to watch the debates. heck we may even get them both running with no VP as they would come to an agreement that the winner take the other as the VP.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Of course they are.  They were both staunch supporters of the war.  They were both advocates of amnesty.  They were both advocates of the Dream Act.  They both supported Campaign Finance Reform (though, I think McCain should be forced to comply, no negative comments within 30 days of an election, Mr. Candidate! mwuhahahah!).  They both opposed Republicans appointing Constitutionalist Judges to the bench in 2000-2004 when the Republicans had the mandate and the majority to do so.  They both blame Bush for Katrina (even though it was Louisiana who dropped the ball, not the feds.)

    Honestly, they are almost the same person, it’s just one has her reproductive organs on the inside and the other has his reproductive organs on the outside.


  • @Amon:

    so only one party-besides Dem and Rep has candidates in all 50 states

    the others are more less individuals who candidate in their home state?!

    There are other parties in some states, but there is only one National “3rd Party” in the United States.

    That is part of why US politics are so polarized, there are only 2 real options when you go vote, and no system in place for coalition governments that Parliamentary systems have that help keep other nations a bit closer to their political center and the “majority moderates”

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    On the plus side, two parties in the United States has never lead to a Hitler like the 48 million party system did in Germany in the 1930s.


  • No but it also has not led to the thousands of Unity governments that have existed in various Parliamentary systems where even minority opinion gets some voice and some action on their issues.

    Had we not become so polarized in this nation, we probably would not have the bloated budget that we do, States Rights would exist in a form other than in a Civics text book, and perhaps just a bit of the acid would be removed from our politics, since in order to lead, you would have to have friends in other political parties.

    Any move toward unity in this nation is seen as a death sentence (look at the Conservative opinion of McCain because he dared to team up with Ted Kennedy).

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Democrats were in the minority from 2000-2006 and got everything they wanted passed.  I don’t think the minority not getting a voice is the problem.  I’m thinking it’s the majority (now the minority) that doesn’t get heard.


  • @Cmdr:

    Democrats were in the minority from 2000-2006 and got everything they wanted passed.

    :?

    Like increasing the minimum wage? universal coverage? timestables on iraq? tax increases? dont kid yourself- they already passed one of those. if they get the presidency, the other three will follow. the only thing stopping the dem agenda is the 60 vote margin in senate and Bushs veto pen.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Campaign Finance Reform
    No Child Left Behind
    Minimum Wage Increases
    Colin Powell
    Scooter Libby
    Karl Rove
    Denny Hastert
    Albert Gonzalez
    etc

    Like those pieces of liberal legislation, and unwarranted attacks on persons to get them to retire instead of doing their job.

    The only thing they didn’t get is surrender in Iraq and Amnesty.  The former because Republicans knew that they would cease to be a party if they gave that to them; the latter because the people of this country flooded their offices with letters and phone calls threatening civil insurrection if they passed it.

    And yes, it will only get worse if they get the Congress and the White House.  But it’s not like the majority has been heard in the past decade.  Which is why we voted them out in 2006. (Democrats filled the vacuum we left because we didn’t elect anyone back.  They did not win on their ideas, they won because they were not Republican incumbents.  Now they face the same thing, they are the incumbents and we’re all mad at them.)


  • No Child Left Behind of all thouse is the only one i like. the reason for it is that it forces schools to have atleast a standard minumum. my oldest son is in school and i have found that teachers don’t like it around hear because they have to step up there teaching. we have schools apealing for more time to meet the critearia. i like it a lot because this is the first big step in holding teachers accountable to some standard instead of sitting back and collecting a pay cheak.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I have to deal with it and I dislike it, as a teacher, for the following reasons:

    1)  I am required to teach to the test.  I cannot teach to the class.  Whats the difference?  When I teach to the class I can teach them at the pace for that class.  When I teach to the test, I teach them how to pass those specific questions so that we can score high enough to get our government money.

    2)  I do not like the test because it requires us to conform to the federal government.  Education is run by the states, not the feds.

    3)  I do not like the test because of all the paperwork I have to do instead of grading, preparing to lecture and working one on one with my students.


  • the problem though is that schools get fed money and yet the fed has no control untill now. i’m no fan of public schools, i would much rather put my kids in private schools but i can’t afford it. so if i’m stuck with public schools i want there to be a standard of some kind. i don’t think it’s right that teachers get the free pass they got. what makes a buissness good is compatition, but now schools don’t compeat, teachers don’t compeat to be the best ether. i know this is off topic but i can’t see how providing a standard for the teachers to shoot for is a bad thing. bad teachers brought this on them selfs by passing (going to sound bad hear) stupid kids. our Uni’s are having to remediate students at record levels to prepare them for entery lvl collage. you can’t say that the schools are doing there job if the uni’s are having to redo it for them.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    The problem is that the fed supplies between 2 and 7% of a school district’s budget, depending on the poverty level in that district IF, and ONLY IF, they meet or exceed the minimum standards.

    Another problem is that the fed standard has become the only standard and it is set so ridiculously low it isn’t even funny.

    I think the solution to the problem is to cut federal funding period.  Reimburse the money to the states and leave it up to each state to determine if a school district needs the money or not.  This is a ridiculously small percentage of the over all budget and it would be very easy to curtail spending to compensate if it comes to that. (Don’t buy MLK Day decorations, don’t waste money on new flowers, etc.)

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