What to do with British fighter off of India?

  • If Germany holds Egypt with only one or two units I think attacking is easily the best option. Otherwise Ger +3/Br -3 IPC’s on G2 and Ger +5/ Br -5 on G3 and so on. Assume no Russian in Bur. Having Russians in Bur greatly expands the effectiveness of some of these moves but it also forces you to make a tough decision if Germany barely took Egypt.

    With 2In/1Ta Germany is 33% to hold on with a tank and ~50% if you don’t want to lose the fighter.
    With 1In/2Ta Germany is 45% to hold on and ~60% if you don’t want to lose the fighter.
    An attempt mean you lose India on J2 or even J1 without much resistance. Success means you delay the loss of Africa, and by a fair amount if you recapture or if germany can’t send additional tanks. Failure accomplishes nothing since there is little difference between 1 Ta and 2In/1Ta both when Africa is undefended and when America arrives in force.

    The point of attacking FIC is to reduce the amount of infantry has on the mainland, slowing them down unless they want to lose fighters and to potentially take out a Japaneese fighter. Japan holds the fighter 43% of the time and the territory 75% of the time. Your fighter survives 47% of the time. Your advantage comes from count and skew, not punch so strafing is not an option. Failure still means a trade  of infantry though it might have been preferable to trade on defense (Full Japaneese attack will lose a fighter and and perhaps two infantry. Also your failure will be known to Japan whereas if you defend Japan won’t know how lucky you are until after commiting)

    Landing in China makes it more costly to takeout. This would be combined with moving the Indian fleet to SZ 59 to stretch. Usually this fighter move seems to me like a mistake but what if both FIC and and SZ57 succeeded? Full Pearl and a fighter assist BB and carrier in sinking British fleet leaves only two fighters for china. 35% chance to not take unless Japan wants to lose fighters. But even if you don’t hold china it’s dead Japaneese infantry that matter. There massive fighter fleet is idle if there are no 2-3 infantry to cover it. Still your losing your fighter for 1-2 infantry and I’m not sure tactical considerations justify it.

    Landing in Sinkiang prepares to make the Japanese pay a high toll for it. It can also fly to fortify Yakut/Burytia fom there . Fianlly it prepares to land in Russian occupied China and defend that since in such a scenario Japan will only have two land units and risks losing fighters if it attacks.

    Defending India will prevent Japan from taking it but I’m not sure how important that is. If Japan REALLY wanted to take it through just four infantry, skipping pearl (but not china) and risking planes, they could get the attack to ~80% but they would lose multiple fighters. I doubt a turn two defendable IC in India is worth that much but I haven’t playtested it. If Russia strafed Ukraine, the third most popular opening, it won’t even be defendable.

    Finally attacking the sub and landing on pearl. This ups the chance of success from 33% to 66%. With the sub dead even a full 2 ftr, bomber, destroyer, carrier plus battleship your 54% to get two real casualties (destroyer plus bomber unless Japan wants to invite a US counterattack) and a 25% chance of three real casualties. Pearl light becomes a nonoption since without the battleship it’s not even a favorable battle. This would be the best move if you want to set yourself up for a US counterattack against pearl. Yould combine it with carrier, destroyer + transport to SZ 57 in order to avoid and counter to your counterattack. This option also means island hopping (or your counter/ fighter sacrifice to blow up Japaneese ships is pointless)

    I am split between 1, 3 and 7.

  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I prefer attack Sea Zone 59 and land in Burytia

    Failing that, attack the jap sub in the solomons and land on the American carrier…at least.

  • Definitely 1, the way I play it. Attack Egypt with 3 inf 1 fig 1 bomb, when Egypt has 3 units. I might be convinced to use the fighter elsewhere when there’s 1 or 2 units in Egypt, but 3 requires full attention and a quick knockout before Germany gets free IPCs.

  • Wow, I missed that the bomber can reach. That’s a tremendously strong move move. It’s probably better than any other move by 10 IPC at least. (BTW I think you mean option 1 not 7. 7 is landing in Hawaii.) I have a sudden urge to raise the axis bid.

  • I usually attack the Solomons sub and land on the U.S. carrier, but I never realized that bomber can reach before…silly of me.

    We don’t use bids in my RL group here either…

    Interesting… 😄

  • 2007 AAR League

    Usually attacks Fic and lands in China.

  • I have used 3 of thsoe options, and which one depends on the game.

    Most common is indeed Egypt Counter Attack on UK1.

    Second is SZ59 and land in China

    Third is attack Solomons Sub and land on US AC at Pearl.

  • Using the UK bomber against Anglo is possible but risky.  Germany will often have a fighter at Libya that can be used to hit an isolated bomber.

  • 2007 AAR League


    Using the UK bomber against Anglo is possible but risky.  Germany will often have a fighter at Libya that can be used to hit an isolated bomber.

    Indeed I never knew that it could reach but now even after seeing it I don’t know if I will do it.

  • In general, it is a suicide run.

    But, depending on your Allied strat, it CAN be viable.

    Still is sub-optimal in most cases.

  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Where do you land the bomber after you hit Egypt with it on UK1?  And how do you stop Germany from getting a free bomber kill with her fighters on G2?

  • Usually you drop the bomber in . . . I forget, one of the zones southwest or south of Anglo-Egypt Sudan.  If you leave it in Trans-Jordan, Germany will DEFINITELY smash the bomber with its Med transport.

    You don’t stop Germany from getting a free bomber kill.

    That’s the point, using a bomber on Africa almost certainly means a dead bomber.

  • If the transport is off Gibralter land bomber in Trans-Jordan. Cover with a Russian tank. (R1 have one in Kazah of Caucus if you atack Belo. Build one in Caucus if you attack Ukraine. Have one in Caucus if you strafe Ukraine.) This makes it 55% to kill fighter, 50% to kill bomber. You lose 2 IPC on average but by taking out egypt you’ve gained ~20IPC. I suppose if you have no Russian tank and you don’t want to leave India with 1 Infantry you’ll only gain 5 IPC trading bomber for Africa and landing in Hawaii would be better.

    If the transport (and Battleship) is off Egypt and the German sub is not off Gibralter I’m not as worried about Africa because allies can do a combined landing in Algeria and dare the Luftwafe to suicide against them.

    Even with the sub the landing is still favorable for the allies unless the Germans have bomber and four fighters in position to hit the landing.

    If Germans have air, 3 in Egypt, transport/BB off Egypt and sub off Gibralter then the only chance to save is the suicide bomber and you’ll have to decide if it’s worth it.

  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Okay, you put it in Italian East Africa.  As Germany I take the fighter I landed in Libya and kill it.  You put it in Kenya, I kill it.  You put it in Trans-Jordan, I kill it.  You put it in French Equitorial Africa I kill it.

    I just don’t see anywhere to land that bomber safely.  It really helps retake Egypt, and that’s great and all, but you just secured 6 IPCs at the cost of 15 and you’ll loose those 6 anyway if Germany reinforces Africa before America get’s in securely.

  • And that is 1 less FIG that can be used elsewhere, and if the BOM lands in FEA, then that FIG is stuck ANOTHER round in Africa instead of going back to Europe to help with the “main” attacks" after being used to take Egypt on G1.

    Also, if you are using the FIG to kill the BOM in FEA, then that FIG also is not being used to re-take Egypt on G2, increasing German casualties for the attack there.

  • Could the fighter actually reach the US carrier?  What path does it take?

  • 0ff India-Off East Indies- Off New Guinea-Off Solomon to attack - Off Hawaii

  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Problem with that is you still loose the fleet in the Pac.  You MIGHT actually get a kill, but you’re trading 10 IPCs for 8-10 and no better position.

    You land in Bury and you force Japan to protect new transports off Japan, means less on Hawaii.  Means he cannot attack Bury on J1 either.  That’s +1 IPC for Russia, potentially +8 IPCs for America and no cost to England.

  • Actually, if the FIG goes to hawaii, the cost to Japan will be 10-16, maybe even 24 IPC’s.  The core Pearl Fleet can kill the sub and DST and wound the BB (in a typical fight).  Add another 2 probable hits from 2 rounds of that FIG, and you start taking out Japan FIGs, or the AC, or a BOM… or with some really hot Allied dice, A BB.

  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I usually only get 1 hit with the Pearl fleet.  That’s a damaged BB.

    Now, let’s assume the fighter missed the Sub on passing.  We have 1 SS, 1 BB, 1 AC, 2 FIG, 1 BMB vs 1 AC, 2 FIG, 1 SS.  Japan get’s 4 hits on round 1.  Allies get 2 hits.  That’s 1 damaged BB and one dead sub.  Cost 8, Reward 44.

    Though, personally I hope to get at least hte American sub out before it dies if I can.  So maybe Cost 8, Reward 36.  Without british plane it could be Cost 0, Reward 26.  Net 2 saved by the Allies.  Meanwhile, that plane can be used to harass Germany or Japan.

  • I can;t remember the last time that Japan did not lose 2 ships to just the US fleet.  3 hits out of 4 rolls has been so prevalent in my last several games that I assume Japan will lose the SUB and DST.

  • Now, let’s assume the fighter missed the Sub on passing.  We have 1 SS, 1 BB, 1 AC, 2 FIG, 1 BMB vs 1 AC, 2 FIG, 1 SS.  Japan get’s 4 hits on round 1.  Allies get 2 hits.  That’s 1 damaged BB and one dead sub.  Cost 8, Reward 44.

    Hmm, this becomes a complicated discussion. A few things here:

    I think you meant to say 1 dest as well in the Japan attack force.

    1 ss + 1 bb + 1 ac + 2 fig + 1 bmb + 1 dest = 20 dice points = 3 and 1/3 hits
    1 ac 2 fig 1 ss = 13 = 2 hits and 1/6 hits

    I think the majority of the time you will see the Americans surviving to round 2 to hit with their fighter, incurring 3 hits total, reducing the Japanese force to 2 fig 1 car 1 bb 1 bomb. The Americans are favored to counter Pearl in this case, so the Japanese would likely instead wish to lose their bomber to keep the destroyer alive.

    A majority of the time, the sub in Solomons will not survive, making the Japanese attack force that more fragile.

    But the Japanese can bring in between 3-4 fighters total, if they really need to. 4 fighters arrive if the Indies carrier moves out east, and 3 is easily achieved just by sending the caroline carrier - the fighter from carolines can land on wake, while a fighter from mainland Japan and 1 from Indies lands on the caroline carrier.

    But the Japanese bringing that much force loses out somewhere. Even bringing the BB as proposed, exposes transports to the Allied airforce. You could compensate by bringing the Indies BB/car to SZ60 to defend, but that leaves the Kwang UK fleet alive, which may later link with the US navy.

    A reinforced Pearl, especially when the Solomon sub is destroyed, and combined with Russian/UK consolidation about Japanese territories, causes the Japanese to give up something. If they go after Pearl, it is no longer an easy decision, they must give up somewhere else or their attack force isn’t generally strong enough, or they have to lose bombers/a fighter in order to preserve the occupying force from a counterattack.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yea, I did forget the Jap DD.

    And yes, IF you kill the Sub in solomons and it doesn’t just submerge.  And IF you get 3 hits in Hawaii you can do damage.

    More often then not I never get hits on the sub and I only get 1 hit with the fighter at Hawaii, if I’m lucky.

    Then again, if I do get 3 or 4 hits, then hellz ya, I’m bringing that BB to Hawaii and sinking the rest of that fleet.  1 Less BB for Japan, maybe even a carrier kill if it’s there.

  • More often then not I never get hits on the sub and I only get 1 hit with the fighter at Hawaii, if I’m lucky.

    Hmm, maybe you just need to play more. It’s 66% chance of sinking the sub if you attack with sub/fighter. You are certainly going to see a number of games where the sub survives, but you should more often than not sink it over many games. And it’s more often than not that the Japs get 3 hits instead of 4, which opens up a nearly 100% chance that the Americans score a 3rd hit.

  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yea, Tri, no offense man, but 66% to me in my games means 5% chance of success.  I have the absolute worst luck with dice…except in my game against Fox.  Poor man, he got nothing, lost a ton.

    You wanna find out, go look.  I’m not going to post it here.  But suffice to say, it left me aweful tempted to try a KJF strat.

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