• I was playing with a couple people this weekend and came to this move and had a discussion about it.  Please tell me if this move is legal or not.

    The American Fleet is at the Caroline islands, seazone 33.  The Japanese place 1 destroyer in sz 46 and 1 destroyer in sz 34 as blockers.  The Japanese have a fleet in the Java sz and control the island of Java.

    The American player used his planes from the aircraft carriers based in the sz 33 to attack the Japanese Fleet in the Java sz, assuming that the USA fleet can kill off the 2 blockers and move the carriers to seazone 45 to give the planes a place to land.  If the blockers were not destroyed, there would be no place to land.  Is this move allowed?

    Secondly, after the attack went though, all the planes were destroyed, would the carriers be forced to move to seazone 45 regardless of whether the planes survived or not?


  • In the rules it states that planes must have a way to land before heading into combat that doesn’t depend on battles that are being fought but an easy way to compromise with someone in that case would be to do the battle with the blockers first and if the carriers make it through with no damage then the player can attack with the planes he wanted to but he cannot change where he is attacking and if one of the carriers dies then the planes it wwas carrying die without attacking and the other planes are the only planes that can attack.


  • @johnnyseinfeld:

    The American player used his planes from the aircraft carriers based in the sz 33 to attack the Japanese Fleet in the Java sz, assuming that the USA fleet can kill off the 2 blockers and move the carriers to seazone 45 to give the planes a place to land.  If the blockers were not destroyed, there would be no place to land.  Is this move allowed?

    Planes are allowed to attack if, assuming that all attacker rolls hit, and all defending rolls miss, that every plane has a possible landing space after noncombat moves.  So yes, they are allowed to attack as the carrier could move to provide a landing zone in the event that they destroy the blockers.

    If they fail to destroy the blockers, the planes no longer have landing spaces and will perish.  But it’s still a legal move, as there was a CHANCE that they would succeed.

    @johnnyseinfeld:

    Secondly, after the attack went though, all the planes were destroyed, would the carriers be forced to move to seazone 45 regardless of whether the planes survived or not?

    No, the carrier is only required to move if you need to provide a legal landing space for a plane.  If a plane survives, you MUST move to pick it up.  But if there are no surviving planes, you can move the carrier as you will.  Same deal with purchased cariers: if the planes don’t survive to return to the seazone adjacent to your factory, you aren’t still obligated to place that carrier in the seazone that the planes were meant to return to.


  • The specific rule language can be found on page 26 of the Pac1940 rule book (one example, it exists in the Europe rule book as well):

    You cannot send air units on “suicide runs”—deliberately moving them into combat with no place to land afterward. If there is any question about whether an attack is a suicide run, then in the Combat Move phase you must declare, prior to rolling any battles, some possible way (however remote the possibility is) for all your attacking air units to land safely that turn. This could include a combination of combat moves. It could also include noncombat moves by a carrier. If it does include a noncombat move by a carrier, then the carrier cannot move in the Combat Move phase.
    In order to demonstrate that an air unit MAY have a safe landing zone, you may assume that all of your attacking rolls will be hits, and all defending rolls will be misses. You may NOT, however, use a planned retreat of any carrier to demonstrate a possible safe landing zone for any fighter or tactical bomber.
    If you declared that a carrier will move during the Noncombat Move phase to provide a safe landing zone for a fighter or a tactical bomber moved in the Combat Move phase, you must follow through and move the carrier to its planned location in the Noncombat Move phase unless the air unit has landed safely elsewhere or has been destroyed before then, or a combat required to clear an intervening sea zone failed to do so.


  • @Failure:

    In the rules it states that planes must have a way to land before heading into combat that doesn’t depend on battles that are being fought but an easy way to compromise with someone in that case would be to do the battle with the blockers first and if the carriers make it through with no damage then the player can attack with the planes he wanted to but he cannot change where he is attacking and if one of the carriers dies then the planes it wwas carrying die without attacking and the other planes are the only planes that can attack.

    No.  This is pretty much all wrong.  Please read rule text snippet above.


  • Yeah, that was a massive FAIL for Failure is not an option….

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