Axis and Allies first turns - Germany


  • meanwhile J1 attack hawaii and exapand in mainland, J2 attack and conquer East US and continue expansion in mainland. J3 invade russia with tanks and planes(get his 4 xtra units out of the way first) then blitz  through russia slowly crippling.

    Mork, first I think you meant “West US” not “East US”, unless you have Teleport as a Nat’l Advantage. :-D  But let’s say you take Hawaii J1, doesn’t the US player place ground units in West US?  Your opponent would have to be pretty lame, but I guess we covered that…

    Serious question though, if you have devoted enough units to attacking US mainland, where did the IPCs come from to “continue expansion” in Asia?  Presumably your transports moved east toward US, so you would have had to buy either (a) IC, or (b) more transports, but then you have little left for ground units.  I don’t think Japan has enough resources to conquer US and blitz Russia simultaneously.

    I agree if you did go after US, that would suck resources away from attacks on Germany.  I just think if pressed, the US has a big enough economy to defend its mainland yet still provide some support against Germany.


  • @newpaintbrush:

    @ncscswitch:

    @newpaintbrush:

    Why shouldn’t Germany be able to do a G4-G5 TRN purchase?

    Why will the Med be a dead zone to Germany?

    Why hsould any built TRNs immediately be sunk?

    Why should Africa be lost early?

    What are the Allied moves that result in those results?

    If you don;t know, I’ll show you in a game sometime…   :evil:

    HINT:  USA and UK to Algeria on Turn 2…

    Even if the Germans do NOT move the Med fleet west, I find it very difficult for the Allies to crack the Med, because of the heavy presence of German air.

    Please elaborate.  What are you doing, building 5 x sub with the US, and carrier for UK?

    Where aaaarrree you ncsswitch?

    I want to know how you crack the Med.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    goldenbearflyer:

    I wouldn’t assume it’s a safe assumption.  I’ve seen seasoned veterans forget that Germany can hit England and protect it too lightly.  I’ve seen rookies you expect to make that mistake not make it.

    Anyway, any good German player is going to stage her fighters and fleet in a way she can invade England on G1, just in case.


  • Anyway, any good German player is going to stage her fighters and fleet in a way she can invade England on G1, just in case.

    On G1?  Or do you mean G2?  You could only bring 2 ground units on G1…

  • 2007 AAR League

    you possition the Figs at the end (non-combat phase) of G1 in western mainly.


  • you position the Figs at the end (non-combat phase) of G1 in western mainly.

    Oh, I see, she meant G1 non-combat phase stage forces threatening invasion G2 or thereafter.  I misinterpreted her meaning…  Right, in my current game I have 3-4 ftr in W.Eur, but unfortunately I played G1 buy 1AC 12inf.  If I had bought 2trn instead, then I would have created the threat.  Forgive me, I’m still getting used to A&A Revised; I’m not used to having significant German naval units to work with in SZ5!  So many possibilities…

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    2 Inf, 6 Fig, 1 Bomb is all you need sometimes. (Assuming you don’t lose a fig to Russian aggression.)

    However, you can also invade Gibraltar and put your Trn/BB there giving you 4 ground units, 6 or 7 air units and a battleship for the invasion.


  • 2 Inf, 6 Fig, 1 Bomb is all you need sometimes. (Assuming you don’t lose a fig to Russian aggression.)

    So you DID mean G1 I guess. :|  Don’t know the “consensus” on R1 moves, but sub to SZ6 makes G1 SeaLion slightly more risky.  Seems like many folks advocate sub to SZ2 as protection for UK naval buildup.  Like you said in another post, without knowing results of R1 it is difficult to project.  I just think with only 2inf a G1 invasion seems too risky.

    btw, not sure it’s legal to bring Balkans ftr into G1 SeaLion.

  • 2007 AAR League

    if you don´t move russian sub to Sz2 you risk being hit with 1 bmb, 1 fig, 1 sub vs 1 trn, 1bb on G1.


  • if you don´t move russian sub to Sz2 you risk being hit with 1 bmb, 1 fig, 1 sub vs 1 trn, 1bb on G1.

    Right, but why limit it to 1sub for the Germans?  Even with R sub to SZ2, G1 can wipe out SZ2.  Just playing devil’s advocate…

  • 2007 AAR League

    Germany can only get in the SZ8 sub to SZ2, and the Fig in Norway, and Bomber from germany (SZ5 is 3 steps away)


  • SZ5 is 3 steps away

    Right.  Dumb on my part not to have remembered that. :oops:  If UK rolls 2 hits, giving up 1sub 1ftr is not too bad!  With R sub there, losing bom is a risky proposition.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Uhm, is it just me, or how does the Russian sub in SZ 6 stop Sea Lion?  You hit it with 2 Subs, 1 Destroyer and bring the transport along with it’s payload to land in England.  Then send in your fighters and bombers to England and (if staged for it) bring the BB/Trn up to SZ 8 or 7 for added firepower.

  • 2007 AAR League

    it dont.


  • @Jennifer:

    Uhm, is it just me, or how does the Russian sub in SZ 6 stop Sea Lion? You hit it with 2 Subs, 1 Destroyer and bring the transport along with it’s payload to land in England. Then send in your fighters and bombers to England and (if staged for it) bring the BB/Trn up to SZ 8 or 7 for added firepower.

    No, of course it doesn’t stop SeaLion.  All I said was it makes it “slightly more risky”.  If SeaLion fails and the sub gets a hit, then the Kriegsmarine is that much more vulnerable to counter-attack.  Minor point.

    I tried running G1 SeaLion on a simulator, but I don’t think the simulator works very well for this, because in order to TAKE UK Germany must save 1inf, so after 1inf lost then ftrs take the hits.  Also, UK could assign an early hit to its bom to improve its overall kills.


  • @newpaintbrush:

    Where aaaarrree you ncsswitch?

    I want to know how you crack the Med.

    You do not expect me to give away ALL of my tricks now do you?

    :mrgreen:


  • @goldenbearflyer:

    I tried running G1 SeaLion on a simulator, but I don’t think the simulator works very well for this, because in order to TAKE UK Germany must save 1inf, so after 1inf lost then ftrs take the hits.Â

    If you haven’t already, try the sim over at http://frood.net/aacalc/ . It has the option of re-calc’ing based on leaving a land unit to take the territory. Plus it’s a great sim anyway.


  • Dan’s sim at Frood is excellent… good enough that I have provided financial support to keep him online…


  • Yeah, agreed - hopefully his new gig’s in a similar line of work.

    Back to sealion. I think a G1 sealion is a nice parlor trick, but be careful not to lose to many of those fighters - you may regret it later. However, I’ve been the allies in a game with a 3 transport buy for the baltic on G1. It definitely makes the UK player start the game pretty defensively.


  • @ncscswitch:

    You do not expect me to give away ALL of my tricks now do you?

    :mrgreen:

    Give meh teh trixies!

    It is obvious . . . you have come to fear Bristle Fendlestick.

    Yes, it all seems so clear, and so pitiful, to me now!

    On the topic of G1 Sealion - MOST of the German fighters are out of range of London (remember they have to land), so you need to get Long Range Aircraft to get your air in range.  However, that ALSO means that you CANNOT be playing Larry Harris Tournament Rules (LHTR - which by the way ARE UNOFFICIAL  :-P even if they are used in the only tournament I know of with Wizards prize support . . . but I digress; LHTR delays tech from going into effect until the end of a country’s turn, so G1 Sea Lion doesn’t work under LHTR).

    ANYWAYS - the cost for G1 SeaLion using Out of the Box Rules is pretty considerable.  First, it is assumed that Russia did NOT fly any fighters to London (which they SHOULD have if there was a risk of Sealion).  Second, it assumes that Germany does NOT blow a wad of IPCs on tech.  Third, the more Germany spends on tech rolls, the less units Germany can buy (so I advocate rolling only 6 dice at most, even though that DOES give approx 33.5% chane of failure, hence almost automatic loss in those cases against all but the worst Allied players).  Fourth, even if Germany succeeds, good AA rolls by UK can wipe out the German attack before it even gets started.  Fifth, even if THAT does not happen, Germany’s air is badly depleted.  Sixth, UK can retake on its turn with battleship support shot and E. Canada tank, while US reinforces on its turn with 2 inf 1 art 1 tank 1 bom 1 fighter, leaving Germany in poor position (usually) to secure London on G2.  Seventh, Russia will be very strong for at least a few turns, as there won’t be a lot of German units moving to Germany’s east front.

    So - that is - it is pretty darn risky to run G1 Sea Lion, and even if Germany DOES make it, the Allies STILL have quite a decent game going on; if UK retakes London on its turn (very possible), it’s pretty much a case of Germany losing 3-6 fighters and possibly bomber for UK’s 30 IPC and London units.  Only if UK cannot retake on its turn is it really a great move for Germany, as UK stays down that 30 IPC, and the US cannot reinforce nearly as well on its turn, so Germany can possibly SECURE London on G2, assuming Germany had the IPC to buy an additional Baltic transport, so it can transport four units into UK on the next turn (hopefully six units with battleship support shot with the Mediterranean fleet).

    Basically . . . G1 Sea Lion is not a solid move, IMHO.  It’s riskier than King’s Pawn Gambit, and has much less of a “solid” line of play.

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