I usually start shipping troops and a small fleet to africa to threaten the underbelly of Europe, building up enough forces over several turns to eventually launch a strike or reinforce WEU. At the same time I am slowly building a navy in the Pacific to make sure Japan doesnt go unchecked, and maybe if japan has their navy out of the way I will build a transport and take borneo, just to be an annoyance.
Critique this US strategy
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You are missing 2 Japan FIGs that can join in that fight usign fighter exchange on the AC…
That changes your odds quite a bit.
And that fleet link-up also leaves Africa in German hands, costing UK not only their fleet, but 1/3 of their income.
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@ncscswitch:
You are missing 2 Japan FIGs that can join in that fight usign fighter exchange on the AC…
That changes your odds quite a bit.
And that fleet link-up also leaves Africa in German hands, costing UK not only their fleet, but 1/3 of their income.
Uh-huh. But now you’re short in Hawaii giving America a free Carrier or sinking your capital ships there.
So which do you choose? You can’t have both, you don’t have the forces for it. Meanwhile, if you do try for the 60/40% chance of winning both, you have almost no offensive units in Asia for use on J1 or J2.
Russia would love 2 rounds to build up a significant front against Japan with minimal resistance by offensive units. Meanwhile, Geramny’s getting hammered by all 3 powers since there’s no real Japanese threat on J1 or J2 and it’ll be J3 before they start making a significant pressence…and that’s only if America doesn’t counter Pearl and sink 50% of your carriers and battleships again.
You can’t have it all ways, guys. You either loose your capitals taking down the Brits or by an American counter attack. Either way, you’re 50% of initial fighting strength which means you’re behind the power curve navally.
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Now you are getting somewhere.
Jen, is right, about the choices. This was kind of brought up in the UK Pac fleet thread, but it is one or the reasons why you can’t dismiss the US Pac fleet so easily. Jen gets it, although we may have different ways of going about it.
Consider this:
UK fortifies entire ME/Pac fleet in sz 30 (with 2 inf from Aus) - I think it is sz 30, I always forget the #'s.
And the Retreat from Ind to Per and Trj to Per.Now Germany may be licking their chops at Afr, but they shouldn’t b/c UK can strike mulitple territories on UK 2.
But Japan sees this and can take a shot at wiping out the UK fleet, it will cost them some planes maybe an AC and perhaps a shot at Pearl, but hey I can give Afr to Ger in one foul swoop.
But wait, there’s more…
US buys 2 ACs and ftr on US 1 and fortifies in Wus sz.
So we are left with this:
In order to save Afr for Germany by killing the UK fleet, you sacrifice the Pac to the US early (rd 1-2) and US can move as early as rd 2 on Sol and quickly start claimg the high priced islands, since the UK took the brunt of the attack.
Now if Japan doesn’t bite and leaves the UK fleet alone, then UK has it’s choice of landing spots on UK 2 that include FIC, IND, PER, TRJ, EGY, IEA, and the southern Afr territories as well as an island or two.
And the US is free to continue to build up their fleet, cause it shouldn’t take a genius to see with a bulked up Brit fleet in the Indian Ocean and a Powerful US fleet in Wus sz, the only safe place for the Japan fleet is Sz 60/61. Mission accomplished for the Allies.
The game is all about choices and forcing your opponents to make the tough ones, and in the process give you an advantage.
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The game is all about choices and forcing your opponents to make the tough ones, and in the process give you an advantage.
I just wanted to re-emphasize this. While I’m almost past the learning curve on AAR, this is still a major point that I’ve known from the days of classic. You force your enemy to move on your time table, not theres. You tempt him to attack targets that are out of the way so you can move into strong positions in force with minimal losses, you force him into attacking units of no value out of fear, weakening his over all attack forces, and/or you set up positions where he has to attack superior numbers.
What happens if Germany has Africa? They are +9, England is -9 per round, correct? Now, what happens if England/America own East Indies, Philippines and Borneo? USA/UK +11, England -9, Germany +9, Japan -11. Net gain +2 for the allies, but even more then that, it is much harder to take islands away from dug in defenders then it is to stage armies in Northern Africa and walk around. On top of that, the Philippines and Borneo are two high priced islands within striking distance of Japan within 1 transports movement. That means what you build can be used the next round to hit their mainland. That means he has to pull back and make offensive fleet units to sink your fleet…which is great and all, but you have England/Russia taking land in the Mainland, you have America countering Japan’s fleet purchases and building an invasion force and you have Germany jugging away against mino British and full Russian reinforcements desperately trying to grab the Russia capital before Japan falls or before England and America set up ICs and pump out infantry and tanks to move into Russia for extra defense.
And, let’s face it, if you are going KJF, you really don’t care if Germany get’s Africa because it means Japan doesn’t have it. Reclaiming from Geramny’s a sinch. They only have 1 transport down there, that’s 2 units a round. USA/UK have 4 transports in the Atlantic on R1. That’s plenty of units into N. Africa on UK/USA1 to take and reclaim N. Africa.
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By your strat Jen, US does not ahve those TRNs in the Atlantic, they are bound for the Pacific.
And with Germany’s boosted income, a TRN or 2 for the Med is easy enough to accomplish, making Africa (and the Middle East) a serious issue for UK.
If you get UK’s income down into the low teens, and THEN take out the UK fleet as Germany, Russia is screwed. UK can;t afford to rebuild their fleet, and Germany can easilly maintaine a minimal AF/Naval presence that can wipe out 1-2 units per round keeping UK locked up in London.
Also, the threat of the UK fleet is minimal. UK has only 10 INF and 1 FIG in all of Africa, the Middle East and the Pacific. Japan lands that in Asia by J2, Allied fleets or no fleet. Sure, Japan may be SLOWED, but slowing Japan at the cost of HALTING Britain, and having the US either vacant or only minimal forces in the Atlantic is a BAD trade for the Allies.
If it is PERFECTLY played, you MAY be able to trade Moscow for Japan at 8-11 IPC’s after 4-5 turns of play. But then you are just talking about a Germany that hits 100 IPC’s around turn 8-9…
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How are you getting England’s income below 25? You have 1 transport, England/America have 4 starting, plus whatever England puts in the water. Thus you have roughly 8+ land units into Africa a round until you give up on taking the land.
Meanwhile, America’s building fleet in the Pac and dropping Japan’s income to the low teens, upper single digits at a rapid pace. Now Russia has no enemy on her eastern border and can focus entirely on Germany, slowing their advances to a very slow crawl (1 mile of land per fiscal year) at very little cost.
Germany: 35 IPC vs Russia 27 IPC, England 32 IPC (Russia up Finland, England up Algeria/Libya)
Japan: 19 IPC, America 53 IPCSounds like loose loose for the Axis. Unless the Axis get ungodly dice in their favor and/or steal money out of the bank to supplement their soon to be non-existant fleet in the Pacific.
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First off… if UK goes after Africa early, their fleet is wiped out early. If they go late, Germany already OWNS Africa, and UK has to take it back. Remember, you did not counter Egypt UK1 in order to boost your fleet in the Indian Ocean, so Germany get +2 for Egypt in G1, then +7 or +8 in G2 for FEA, FWA, BC, IEA, T-J, and possibly Rhodeisa. that is also MINUS 7 or 8 for UK. G3 they finish you off with UOSA, and Persia, for +10 or 11 as Germany, and the same negative for UK.
Now, you are stacking your fleet someplace “safe” on UK1. And you did not kill the Kwang TRN as a result. India falls on J1. So on UK2, UK is now down 10-11. On UK3 they are down 13-14. That is an income of only 16 as UK.
And if Japan decides to “go after” that UK fleet, they are going to bring TRNs along for the ride. And with just 1 TRN surviving, Australia and New Zealand are very likely targes of early attack (instead of late attack), lose 3 more as UK.
And while doing all of that, I can STILL build enough of a fleet to defend against the US in my home waters, and then I can send surviving forces from near Australia, plus my new naval units near Japan, plus land based AF (at least a BOM) against the US fleet that may finally be moving my way around turn 3-4.
Remember Jen, YOUR strat is to have the US go whole hog into the Pacific, so there are no US forces for Africa. There are no US TRNs or DSTs to reinforce the UK fleet agianst the Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe. UK faces 1 BB, 3 SUB, 1 DST, 1 AC, 2 TRN, 5-6 FIGs and a BOM with their fleet of 2 BB, 2 TRN, 1 DST which are split up in 4 different SZ’s to start, and 1 BB, 1 DST are on the bottom on UK1. Go ahead… defend London AND counter-attack Africa with that force looming. As Germany, I would be having an orgasm over those odds.
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America still has 2 transports and a destroyer in the Atlantic. That’s 4 infantry a round into Africa to be supported by 1 BB, 2 Trn at least of England, so that’s 4 more infantry into Africa. 8 Infantry vs 2? That means Germany holds Africa for two or three rounds before loosing it.
Meanwhile, Japan cannot get India because it has 4 Infantry, 2 Russian fighters and a tank on R1, and 2 more russian infantry on R2 at least. So now you’re stalled in India with a rather nice English Fleet and Ameircan fleet joined. So you either sacrifice your airforce or your fleet to sink it, or give them dominance on the water.
Sure, you can make a killer defensive fleet with Japan at the cost of using airpower in Asia and the cost of building ground forces to attack Russia, meanwhile Russia only needs to invest a little into maintaining Sinkiang/India at a strong enough point to cost Japan big if attacked…and Japan is hardly in a position with it’s fleet cowering in Japan to replace heavy losses against Russian defense forces.
Germany, having a slight edge on Russia, is able to push into Karelia, Belorussia, Ukraine and hold against possible Russian attacks, but cannot get a sufficient enough troop together to break into Caucasus for the IC or Archangelsk. They are most assuredly down Finland because Russia would probably hit that on R1 knowing the British/American strategy is to bottle up Japan, so they’re going to need the income more.
Only things that really screw this up is a heavy axis bid (9-12 IPCs at least and all of it in Europe to attack the Russian front on G1)
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As switch as mentioned, as Germany I would love that strat by the allies.
UK isn’t getting Africa back by themselves… Sorry…
if you keep sending 4 Inf to Afr via US thats 12 IPC there… I’m assuming after turn 3-4 US is only making 38 as it is.that would leave high 20’s left to spend on a all out-pacific fleet? that doesn’t make sense to me.if UK does a delay attack on Africa (waiting till turn 2 as Darth mentioned) I fail to see this as a way of clearing german troops out of Africa.
How does the UK plan to defend the UK itself? kill the Baltic fleet? kill the joined Med/Baltic fleet? I don’t even see them taking and holding Norway without US or Russia preasure.
Switch i’m on your side for this debate. I don’t see how the allies can recover from letting Germany go full throttle. A full throttle Japan is always less fearful then Germany.
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Actually, after 3-4 turns US is making 42 again with the addition of at least Borneo or East Indies. Might even be at 46 with both of them. 12 IPCs to Africa to secure 11 IPCs for England is nothing.
So while germany is putting in a piddly 2 infantry a round, the allies are dumping 8 infantry a round in there. That’s enough to secure it and start walking into Cuacasus
I also don’t see you killing the fleet. Remember, UK isn’t putting all that much into the Pacific. They’re just keeping forces they already had there in there and massed to cause heavy casualties on an unfortunate Japan player who decides to attack them.
Best move for Japan? Ignore the Brits, sink the Americans. But even that’s only a delaying tactic because the Brits with the Americans pose a serious defensive force and America doesn’t have to worry about protecting it’s islands like Japan does.
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OK Jen, so now you are NOT going whole hog into the Pacific and doing that massive fleet, but keeping 2 TRN and a DST in the Atlantic. AND you are using them in Africa.
AND you are sending 2 FIGs and an ARM to India from Russia on R1. GREAT! That means Germany has all 6 FIGs, and significant land forces in Ukraine.
I kill the WRS. I take Karelia. I slam Egypt, and you will not be countering as UK.
On G2, Caucuses falls. Russia has a build limit of 8. Germany’s income breaks 50. The US fleet is being built up. UK is reinforcing India against increasing Japan presence in Asia.
On G3, Russia loses everything west of Moscow. Germany builds in Caucuses.
G4, Russia Falls.
G5, I sink the Allied fleet in the Altantic.
G6, Sea Lion take 1…
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With perfect dice maybe.
On G1 you have 4 fighters, 1 lost in Finland, 1 lost in Ukraine to Russia. Meanwhile, Russia mobilizes eastern units towards India/Sinkiang. Possible armor or fighters to India depending on bid locations and desire to own the land or just kill German fighters. Maybe germany has 5 fighters, and Finland is forgotten.
Meanwhile, America puts a few units on transports that pre-existed and moves to Sea Zone 12. England moves to Sea Zone 12 on that same round, before Germany can move and builds enough infantry to defend against 5 fighters, 1 bomber, 1 infantry, 1 armor, thus preventing Sea Lion.
Japan takes China, Bury. Looses Battleship, Aircraft Carrier and 2 fighters to British Fleet. Losses submarine, destroyer to American fleet.
America takes Solomons.
Russia reinforces front lines.
Germany attempts to break down Russian wall.
England puts more into Africa. Advances through German controlled North Africa towards Egypt/Caucasus.
Japan maybe has enough to hit India, probably not. Maybe takes Sinkiang, probably has to settle for Yak/SFE. Builds transports/infantry.
America takes East Indies, stages units in the sea zone east of Solomons.
Russia reinforces, maybe retakes W. Russia or Archangelsk if it was conqured.
Germany against crumbles under Russian defensive might, on average dice. Worries about loosing Africa entirely.
England puts more into Africa, has now reclaimed Egypt and is well on it’s way to putting 4+ units a round into Caucasus through N. Africa.
Japan finally has the ability to take out India or Sinkiang.
America takes Borneo and Philipines. Laughs at the Japanese navy and entices them to attack.
Russia reinforces, puts some infnatry into capital for first time to defend against 2 or 3 japs actually able to attack.
Germany finally gets a strong position in Archangel or W. Russia.
England moves into Trans Jordan and lands more troops in N. Africa
Japan bolsters it’s forces, maybe takes Persia or Kaz/Novo depenidn on route taken.
America brings more ships to bear, starts landings in Asia Minor
Russia strafes German lines, decimating them. Reinforces Moscow/Caucasus.
England starts moving into Persial/Caucasus.
Japan forced to retreat to handle American aggression or loose valualble mainland territories.
America builds more fleet/troops, continues to shuffle in through the Pac near Australia and up. Meanwhile, Jap fleet forced to protect Japan or loose the mainland to American navy/marines.
You can see how Japan is quickly neutrallized while Germany is stalled without much reduction in Allied forces moving into German held lands. It only takes a minimal investment. 12 IPCs from either nation and England making fighters to hit German naval units if they encroach to close to the fleet. Maybe even a couple british submarines up there in SZ 2.
I really don’t see how Japan can manage to do anything other then die if the Allies turn their concentrated aggression on them. Especially if they attack on J1 without massing and if you leave my carrier group alive in Pearl, I’ll just hit Europe with it instead of the Pac. If you sink Pearl but leave the brits, I’ll hit the Pac since I have a cr@pload of navy to use as a shield against your attackers.
Sorry, but Japan cannot survive when it’s lost 13 IPCs in islands and has direct threats to it’s mainland holdings. Especially if the fleet is tied up in SZ 60 in a desperate attempt to prevent America from taking Japan proper. That gives me free reign in the Pacific and I’ll crucify you with free reign if you let me have it.
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Jen, if you are attacking Norway and Ukraine, then you are NOT sending 2 Russian FIGs to India to defend it against a J1 attack.
If you want to keep double counting forces, that is your call. But, you can;t do that in a game, and I am not going to counter your posts so long as you do things like use Russian FIGs to both attack Norway and Ukraine, AND go to India (along with an ARM) to defend India.
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@ncscswitch:
Jen, if you are attacking Norway and Ukraine, then you are NOT sending 2 Russian FIGs to India to defend it against a J1 attack.
If you want to keep double counting forces, that is your call. But, you can;t do that in a game, and I am not going to counter your posts so long as you do things like use Russian FIGs to both attack Norway and Ukraine, AND go to India (along with an ARM) to defend India.
Ya musta missed that whole segment where I said you could forgo one or two of those attacks.
3 Inf and a tank can take out Norway. No fighters needed.
Taking W. Russia with Cauc and Russia leaving 1 infantry in Cauc is also easy enough to do. Move the AA out so you can reclaim easier and SBR with England to remove any German gains from taking it. And you are well on your way. After all, on R2 you have those fighters and tank back because you’re pumping infantry into India by then.
Japan SOL
Germany Stalled indefinately.
England well into the mid 20’s of income until they take/re-take N. Africa
America into the mid/upper 50s
Japan barely hitting 10 a round.I fail to see how you can miss this. I really do. Germany just does not have the fleet to take out the allies for at least 3 rounds, by then it’s too late. Allies can get some bombers going if they want, but basically Japan’s already been castrated financially and USA/UK should have ICs on the SE Asian mainland. Don’t need a british/american fleet in the Atlantic if you have an IC in Sink/FIC and one in India. Or anything else that comes up. I mean, it’s hard to project 4-6 rounds of game play in, but it’s pretty safe to make some assumptions.
1) Germany will forgo hitting the Allied fleet to use 100% of it’s offensive might trying to crush Russia.
2) Russia will have more then plenty infantry and british RAF to defend for 4-6 rounds before they even have to think about conceeding tradeable landscape.
3) Japan will assume a carrier or two will protect them against Allied naval attempts…forgetting they don’t have to defend, they ahve to attack
4) America with british fleets for support will quickly conquer the south pacific adding immense cash flow per turn to both England and America (since England doesn’t have to worry about Jap invasions of Africa anymore)
5) England will basically be taking America’s role as reinforcing agent.I fail to see how, in the normal course of events, the Axis can stop this. Especially since Germany and Japan won’t have a clue what’s going on until America’s turn so they’ll already be a turn behind.
Remember, germany’s tanks are worthless in assiting Japan. Maybe Germany can send their Luftwaffe to help, really havn’t investigated that much. Though, I seriously think by the time it can be spared, Japan’ll be pretty much wiped off the map.
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3 INF and a ARM to Norway? In R1?
That is a 16% chance for the Russians to win against 3 INF, 1 FIG., 23% chance if you call mutual destruction a win. The most likely result is all Russians dead, Norway remains German w/ 1 INF, 1 FIG.
West Russia can be taken w/ reduced forces, but it invites a massive counter via Belo that Russia can;t throw back.
And as i also found out in my current game, hitting Ukraine with less than maximum force (including both FIGs) means that Ukraine probably stays German.
So lets see…
Norway remains German, and Karelia is vacant or nearly so, and falls to germany on G1.
West Russia is weaker than normal and falls to germany on G1
Ukraine held, and Caucuses is taken on G1.
That puts Germany at $45 for income, excluding any moves in Africa. It also leaves Russia devoid of defensive lines between Moscow and Germany, and also gives them a build limit of 8 units.BAD idea.
And your income lines aer WAY off for Japan. You just can’t move that fast in the Pacific. Too much distance to cover, and too few land units available to replace loses. Japan will still be around $30 (or more) for income for the first 5 turns, by then moscow is gone.
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Just did three games, it’s a bit harder then expected, but in every game Japan’s been successfully kept at or below 30 IPC income. In two games they turtled. In one game he successfully sunk both American and British fleets, but in the process reduced himself to 1 BB which was easily smashed by the American counter.
Net Result, with the full offensive blast into the Pac he successfully delayed the loss of his high priced islands by 2 turns. In both turtling instances Borneo and East Indies fell before round 3.
Germany was successfully retained by Russia without even breaking a sweat in all 3 games. However, they did manage to get Africa and that took a while to take back due to having to walk English infantry through Africa. (England generally had 3 rounds to fill Africa before they had to retreat from German naval superiority.)
America ended with 3 full carriers and a battleship after annihillating the japanese fleet in the first two games, in the third America had no need to build an offensive fighting force as there was no Japanese navy of which to speak.
In all cases, there was an indian IC. Once there was also a Sink IC.
However, it seems to be the best bet to have East Indies and Borneo in control of either ENgland or America, not split. This way you can build 8 land units in range of 4 transports and have continual landings into Asia Minor.
A note to Japan: If this is happening, make sure to build units to defend your capital! Remember, Sea Zone 59 is connected to sea zone 61! You cannot have your only fleet in both places and if you split them, you’re ready to die quick.
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Just did three games, it’s a bit harder then expected, but in every game Japan’s been successfully kept at or below 30 IPC income. In two games they turtled. In one game he successfully sunk both American and British fleets, but in the process reduced himself to 1 BB which was easily smashed by the American counter.
Net Result, with the full offensive blast into the Pac he successfully delayed the loss of his high priced islands by 2 turns. In both turtling instances Borneo and East Indies fell before round 3.
Germany was successfully retained by Russia without even breaking a sweat in all 3 games. However, they did manage to get Africa and that took a while to take back due to having to walk English infantry through Africa. (England generally had 3 rounds to fill Africa before they had to retreat from German naval superiority.)
America ended with 3 full carriers and a battleship after annihillating the japanese fleet in the first two games, in the third America had no need to build an offensive fighting force as there was no Japanese navy of which to speak.
In all cases, there was an indian IC. Once there was also a Sink IC.
However, it seems to be the best bet to have East Indies and Borneo in control of either ENgland or America, not split. This way you can build 8 land units in range of 4 transports and have continual landings into Asia Minor.
A note to Japan: If this is happening, make sure to build units to defend your capital! Remember, Sea Zone 59 is connected to sea zone 61! You cannot have your only fleet in both places and if you split them, you’re ready to die quick.
Say, you wouldn’t happen to have game transcripts or files sitting around, would you?
(If you had played on TripleA, you could just View History of the last save game file)
I can’t imagine all that stuff in the Pacific, and USSR not even having to break a sweat defensively against Germany. I’m interested in seeing what the Allies and Germany did in the Atlantic.
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Mostly the Atlantic Consisted of Allied landings in Africa (4 Inf, US - 2 Inf, 1 Art, 1 Arm UK), lots of SBRs and Russia doing mostly a holding manuever. They did usually buy a 3rd fighter around R2 or R3 depending on the situation.
As for transcripts, sorry. These were live games with a live board. But I can say the dice were pretty random. I don’t remember any major battle being overly decisive for either side.
There were NAs, tech, no bids, etc.
We found the goal was to put 3 Infantry, 2 artillery a round into India/Sinkiang to stop Japanese aggression. He couldn’t keep up. He was trying desperatly to put together a fleet to kill us which costs more then a defensive fleet. meanwhile, we only needed to build a few defensive ships, some fighters and lots of man power.
Borneo, East Indies, Phill all need at least 4 units on them. This prevents a demoralized Japan from reclaiming them easily and ties up massive forces. (Easy enough to do if you want a 10 round game.)
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it seems like in every topic its jennifer and switch arguing about us nd japan fleet strategies :lol:
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Don;t worry, one of these days, I’ll be sure to spank Jen :-)
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