Canned Strats

[Guest]

They are, by and large, presetned as fairly detailed blueprints.

So he won a Tournament.  So have I.  So he has beat some good players, so have I.

But when your strategy relies on moves and builds 5 turns into the game, THAT is canned, no other way to say it.

[trihero]

Aaaaaand with that we can now be sure to see TriHero at the next GenCon.

:lol: metal bikinis where?  :? :-o :-D

CSub papers are hardly canned. They discuss so many different variants of how things go. The paper would be canned if it said, you must build 3 transports as Germany, and then you will win. But it hardly says that at all. The paper would be canned if it said, you will take the USA for sure. But it doesn’t even say that.

[Guest]

Well heck, I was going to log in again to give you credit for starting a new thread, so I figure I may as well post a real post.

A) Good idea for a new thread.  That’s good moderatin’.

B) Ok, you quote the Canadian Shield paper which says, “The basic move is this”.  Doesn’t that imply immediately that there are other ways to do it as opposed to the move only being a script? Â

More importantly, doesn’t the paper go on to detail many variations of the basic move?  So that’s not a script, that a discussion with a starting description of the basic concept.  It’s weird that you’re trying to split this semantic hair.  Must be the influence of that darn post-modernism…

C) You write “You are not likely to admit error.”  1) Like you are?  I admire your undaunted self-righteousness in the face of evidence to the contrary.  2) In fact, this may be one of the ways we are most different.  In the link Squirecam posted you can see that I give him credit for several points and say that I’m going to go back and work on a couple of concepts.  We were having a good debate (though later on in our history we did get a little raucus.  Heh  :-D).

You, on the other hand, have a track record of starting debates off like a knob.  And I quote: “What this idiot who wrote this paper misses when he advocates the 3 tranny build…” Â

See http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=5719.msg85316#msg85316

I don’t usually push back hard on folks, but when you’re both wrong AND obnoxious it tends to get my dander up.  I tend to try and look for things to give people credit for (evidenced in a vatiety of threads), you tend to look for things to call people idiots.

I guess you must feel like you’re succeeding.

[Jennifer]

Even if they ARE canned strategies and even if you CAN destroy them, they do serve purpose….to make you think.  Do you know how boring this game gets when you can basically predict the first 5 rounds of combat given average dice?  It’s the same thing over and over and over again.  A little variety, even if it doesn’t work, at least adds some flavor to the game!  And who knows, maybe it’s that first guy to build a carrier with Germany or the first guy who orchestrates a masterful conquering of Canada or the first guy to do almost nothing but build infantry with Germany in classic that changes the game forever.

That’s, personally, what I aspire too.  That’s why I come up with some kooky ideas.  If the bounce back seems canned with no real response other hten “infantry stacks are better” I might even try it.

[Guest]

And Jen I do believe that i stated, twice so far in this thread, that those essays are valuable in terms of sparking thought.

What they are nearly useless for though is taking them verbatim and trying them against an experienced player.

That was my initial point (of taking C-Sub with a grain of salt), and remains my consistent point throughout this thread.

[Axis4life]

I would have to say that core concepts are more effective for me.  It is the way I approach the game a country doesn’t have scripted moves but rather responsibilities.  I think that scripted or canned strats don’t factor in bad rolls or your opponents counter measures.  IMHO the only moves that can really be scripted are the R1 moves.  after that the game becomes highly reactionary.  I can’t tell you how many times I have had perfect plans for my next few rounds only to have those plans crushed by an enemy counter measure forcing me back to the drawing board again.  So for me scripts don’t work.

[General_D.Fox]

I definitely think the CSub essays spark thought, and are fairly good for newer players like myself when I first picked up the game.  They give a player food for thought on how to approach the game, and maybe ways to go about coming up with strats of their own.  Sure, once you get better you don’t have to follow everything to a T, but it’s all about ideas and developing your own, with a good kickstart from others,whether it be CSub or from some other source.

[Jennifer]

@ncscswitch:

And Jen I do believe that i stated, twice so far in this thread, that those essays are valuable in terms of sparking thought.

What they are nearly useless for though is taking them verbatim and trying them against an experienced player.

That was my initial point (of taking C-Sub with a grain of salt), and remains my consistent point throughout this thread.

Kay kay, musta forgotten you said it earlier in the thread.  When you’re tracking 400 threads a day, it’s hard to remember every point made in them. :)

[Guest]

Not a problem Jen :-)

Let me sum up a few of my earlier points, in case tehy did not cross over from the original thread, and just so folks understand me…

The C-Sub essays have some good info.  They present ideas that folks may not have considered.  Many of them have some great statisitcal analysis of specific units, and others have some good analysis of specific combat situations you may encounter.  On that last item, it is not so much the specific analysis that is valuable (except of course for the Round 1 analysis, since beyond that too many variables creep in), but HOW to analize that makes them worthwhile.

They are a good jumping off point.

But they are not then end-all and be-all of how to win Axis and Allies.

And, trying to use them as many of them are presented, as a blueprint for what builds and moves to make to achieve victory, is more likely to cause you a lot of grief than it is to be of any real benefit to you or your game play.  Thus, take them with a grain of salt.

[squirecam]

If you are anywhere near Michigan or Ohio, you should play in Crazy’s border battle tournament. I think it is in November.

See who has the better strategy?

Squirecam

[Guest]

I am in north central North Carolina.  That Tournament is about a 20 hour drive from here…

[Jennifer]

What’s 20 hours when immortality is on the line???

[General_D.Fox]

And a chance to disprove/insult/embarrass your opponent and his “canned strats.” :-P

[Jennifer]

I’ll send $2 to your paypal address to see you quash him, any other takers? smile

[Guest]

Sorry folks…

If Crazy Straw wants a run at me, he knows where to find me… right here, on the forum, where everyone can see the moves and watch whichever side will win, with it recorded for all posterity so long as the site exists :-)

Tournament is over in 2 months, so I should have plenty of time then…

[Guest]

@Jennifer:

I’ll send $2 to your paypal address to see you quash him, any other takers? smile

In!  I’ll contribute $2 to that account.

And yes, when he arrives I’ll make sure I have a fresh can of something for him.

:-D

[Guest]

$2 won;t even get me off the Raleigh beltline in traffic in terms of gas.

You want a challenge?

I’ll be finished with the 2-on-2 Tournament in about 2 months (perhaps less…)

You can play me for free right here (well, in the Games part of the forums anyway).

I’ll even move you to the front of the queue…

We’ll use the same rules we have for all of the Tournaments here.

Think you can handle me come late October?  A guy who has been playing Revised for less than a year at that point?  Want to put your strats were your fingers are?  I am willing…

[Guest]

Oh and the rules are pretty easy…

LHTR 1.3
Online Dicey (DAAK, Frood, In-Site)
Blind Bid (handled by DAAK server)
10 VC or surrender
ADS
Moves posted daily  (48 hour default w/o advance notice)
No Tech
No NA’s

Just good, old fashioned, hard core gaming.

An expert like you who won GenCon surely can handle some upstart who has been playing less than a year…  :mrgreen:

[Guest]

Look Switch, here’s the deal:

I posted saying that under the rules I play, these particular strategies are fun and get the job done.

You then danced all over them when you have no idea what you’re talking about.

As the loud mouth guy, it is incumbent on YOU to back up what you’re saying by playing the game under the conditions you have so thoroughly dismissed.

If you can’t play the game for geographical reasons, or health reasons, or fear of plastic, or whatever, then maybe you should tone down your rhetoric before being dismissive of things you don’t understand.

I’m not saying you should drive half-way across the country because your mouth gets you in trouble; I am saying you should keep yourself out of trouble by being more respectful even to those you believe are inferior.  That’s good sportsmanship.

[Guest]

Eh, I figured as much.

Not willing to go after the best in the world, just the best who are willing to travel to a gaming con…

Offer remains open.

If your strats are good enough to go 5 rounds and win at GenCon, then they allegedly should be good enough to handle me in the same amount of time (or less).

If you insist on travel to settle this, then you get to pay travel expenses, lost wages, etc.

Otherwise… this site is free.  Distance is not a factor.  And we can even start this TOMORROW (since Mech is having technical issues, and I have about 2 weeks left before Round 2 of the Tournament).

So… time to put up or shut up Crazy Straw…  You have officially been slapped in the face with the gauntlet.