How much is a fair bid in Europe 1940?

  • '20 '16 '15 '14

    Using second edition rules with NO’s, has anyone found a proper balance, or is the game balanced as is?  I am asking this from a perspective of running a tournament in the future and wanting to know your thoughts of which side needs the bid and how much.  So far I have only played Global….

    Thanks!


  • To me 2nd edition seems balanced out of the box, Perhaps a slight advantage to the Axis, but nothing to break the game.


  • Giving UK a sub off Egypt would help a lot. This map is horribly unbalanced if you don’t attack the true neutrals as the allies though. As long as you do this, then the map is pretty close to balanced.


  • @theROCmonster:

    Giving UK a sub off Egypt would help a lot. This map is horribly unbalanced if you don’t attack the true neutrals as the allies though. As long as you do this, then the map is pretty close to balanced.

    Really can’t say I agree. I find the 2nd edition to be very balanced (I mean I’ve had both major Axis and Allied victories as well as very close games, so results have been all over the place).


  • You have had balanced games when the allies didn’t attack the true neutrals? How did you get a foothold in Europe for your shuck?

  • '16 '15 '10

    Last time I played I felt the economics and game dynamics favor Allies.

    But it’s close enough that I don’t have a problem being Axis without a bid.


  • :?@theROCmonster:

    You have had balanced games when the allies didn’t attack the true neutrals? How did you get a foothold in Europe for your shuck?

    Take Denmark with the US and send English transport with BB and CA support through the Danish straits to attack Berlin directly. If Berlin is too heavily defended go for Poland instead to stop the flow of reinforcements to the East. that usually gives the Russians enough breathing space. Incredibly gamey, admittedly and I don’t like the fact of being able to land directly into Germany (was impossible for various reasons in the actual war), but it certainly works most of the time…


  • @Koningstiger:

    :?@theROCmonster:

    You have had balanced games when the allies didn’t attack the true neutrals? How did you get a foothold in Europe for your shuck?

    Take Denmark with the US and send English transport with BB and CA support through the Danish straits to attack Berlin directly. If Berlin is too heavily defended go for Poland instead to stop the flow of reinforcements to the East. that usually gives the Russians enough breathing space. Incredibly gamey, admittedly and I don’t like the fact of being able to land directly into Germany (was impossible for various reasons in the actual war), but it certainly works most of the time…

    That is very gamey and the problem is vs a good opponent that will never happen, so if you can’t go there, then where do you go? That is the problem I had for the longest time till COW pointed out attacking the true neutrals. The reason this is so good is because you now get and American shuck going on the mainland. America makes nearly as much as Germany, and with Germany having the try to take Egypt too, after Moscow falls, he is really in a bind.

    The reason I think this map favors Axis is because of how easily Germany rolls over Moscow. Playing against myself I attack T8 and take it with something like 20 tanks and 30 mech left.


  • @theROCmonster:

    @Koningstiger:

    :?@theROCmonster:

    You have had balanced games when the allies didn’t attack the true neutrals? How did you get a foothold in Europe for your shuck?

    Take Denmark with the US and send English transport with BB and CA support through the Danish straits to attack Berlin directly. If Berlin is too heavily defended go for Poland instead to stop the flow of reinforcements to the East. that usually gives the Russians enough breathing space. Incredibly gamey, admittedly and I don’t like the fact of being able to land directly into Germany (was impossible for various reasons in the actual war), but it certainly works most of the time…

    That is very gamey and the problem is vs a good opponent that will never happen, so if you can’t go there, then where do you go? That is the problem I had for the longest time till COW pointed out attacking the true neutrals. The reason this is so good is because you now get and American shuck going on the mainland. America makes nearly as much as Germany, and with Germany having the try to take Egypt too, after Moscow falls, he is really in a bind.

    The reason I think this map favors Axis is because of how easily Germany rolls over Moscow. Playing against myself I attack T8 and take it with something like 20 tanks and 30 mech left.

    First of all, if the British build a factory Egypt should never fall, at least not before the US gets a chance to become so powerful as to seriously threaten Germany.

    Secondly, even if invading Berlin isn’t going to happen, as I said then you can try Poland instead and disrupt Axis communications to the East.

    Thirdly, even the threat is usually enough to make a more experienced player leave lots of units to defend key areas such as Denmark, Norway, Western Germany, (Eastern) Germany/Berlin and Poland. They’ll never be able to defend them all well enough and they’ll miss those units on the Eastern front. It may also mean that France is left virtually undefended, which should also help the Allied cause.

    Finally, it’s absolutely incredibly gamey and I wish there’d be an official rule requiring possession of Western Germany (the ports of Kiel, Lübeck and Hamburg) in oder to be allowed to launch an amphibious assault against Berlin. This would be much more historically accurate. having said that, it’s already an improvement over earlier editions that at least possession of Denmark is required!

  • '16 '15 '10

    @theROCmonster:

    @Koningstiger:

    :?@theROCmonster:

    You have had balanced games when the allies didn’t attack the true neutrals? How did you get a foothold in Europe for your shuck?

    Take Denmark with the US and send English transport with BB and CA support through the Danish straits to attack Berlin directly. If Berlin is too heavily defended go for Poland instead to stop the flow of reinforcements to the East. that usually gives the Russians enough breathing space. Incredibly gamey, admittedly and I don’t like the fact of being able to land directly into Germany (was impossible for various reasons in the actual war), but it certainly works most of the time…

    That is very gamey and the problem is vs a good opponent that will never happen, so if you can’t go there, then where do you go? That is the problem I had for the longest time till COW pointed out attacking the true neutrals. The reason this is so good is because you now get and American shuck going on the mainland. America makes nearly as much as Germany, and with Germany having the try to take Egypt too, after Moscow falls, he is really in a bind.

    The reason I think this map favors Axis is because of how easily Germany rolls over Moscow. Playing against myself I attack T8 and take it with something like 20 tanks and 30 mech left.

    Realistically, Axis will have a tough time winning if they haven’t won before T10, although it’s not impossible for them to win the long-term economic game if they also occupy Africa and the Middle-East.

    Strategically, Axis has 2 viable choices–Sea Lion or Barbarossa.  Whichever they choose, they need to take an Allied capital asap.  Otherwise the Allied economic advantage will be insurmountable.  T8 is probably too late, imho, unless your strategy also involves taking and holding Cairo at the same time you finish off the Soviets.

    I know Cow was a proponent of attacking neutrals, but I’ve never agreed with that.  There are some benefits, yes, but there are countervailing costs.  Axis can make you pay by occupying Sweden and Turkey.  Once Axis has Turkey then they can also activate Saudi.


  • Here is a game where I played a game of Europe vs a very solid opponent. I was playing as the axis.

    Europe round 15.tsvg

  • '16 '15 '10

    Looks like a epic game.  Nice allied offensive in Greece.  Looks like the game was not over and it was still pretty even.

    When Allies violated the neutrals, Axis got Sweden, and never lost Scandinavia.  Control of Norway is an important objective, particuarly when Germany is not contesting the naval war.

    Allies did not take full advantage of Allied control of the Atlantic.  It’s easier to get a foothold in Normandy or Norway if you can land British infantry and fighters to back up the original American landing.

    Allies made a big mistake not retreating from Moscow on R6.


  • I agree on the points you said. I was playing as Axis, and I always like the Russian retreat move now. Make his planes inept. If you merge up your Russian forces with British forces you can hold Egypt for much longer.

    The problem he had with trying to take Norway was that if he sent enough to Norway to take it he wouldn’t have enough to take and defend Paris. Since I was guaranteed with my move to get Egypt.

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