How is the balance with the new Alpha 2 changes? Please give your view.

[questioneer]

With early $$$$$ :-D, America can load up with tons of subs and still have some to invest on Europe side slowly- if Sealion suceeds which is another matter in Alpha+2- I think the chances of getting it are slimmer this time according to my calculations- 4-5 aircraft make up the difference.  If it does succeed- its usually very costly.  It was very doable in Alpha+1 but not so much in Alpha+2.

Jen with your opening moves in Europe, Brits can still salvage a navy and reorganize in Canada.  By the way, the problem with Sealion is the “spread thin” factor- comes into play by rounds 6-10.

Also, if Russia marches through China with 18inf, you might rethink your whole strategy…China worth nothing you say???  Still think that is true with 18inf marching through China toward India…buys time for UKPacific.

I give you some credit for trying though…this strategy seems more like Swiss cheese- too many holes.  The overall idea makes perfect sense for a gambit- the details of how to do it are another matter.

[Jennifer]

@Cow:

no reason to do anything for japan rounds 1-4. not in danger of losing the game, plus building up for japan takes time. saving uk is a priority so allies don’t lose on the europe half.

It seems that the allies win most of the games still.  I believe this is because you leave America alone to build a massive unsinkable navy while blowing your forces in China getting territories you don’t need to win the game AND because you allow England/ANZAC to have 2 or 3 rounds of the DEI to add to their bulk, allowing them to get 30 infantry to stop you at Calcutta and a number of submarines that convoy you to death so while you’re trying to counter build america, you’re losing cash to the submarines.

The sneak attack round 1, 2 or 3, stops that from being an issue.  You stop America dead in its tracks and have your cash available to go knock out some British/Australian stuff.  Since America is so weak in the first couple of rounds and super huge later.

Sea Lion is almost always a forgone conclusion.  The only time it seems to not happen is if Germany gets stomped on Round 1 and doesn’t have the airpower to do it anymore.

The new trick is to wait until its too late for America to do a blessed thing about it, then stomp England.  By round 3 Germany should have 4 NOs going to rebuild a little lost, then 3 NOs once Russia gets in the war.

[Cow]

you really think usa can’t stop germany from taking united kingdom?

I been saying axis wins usually, because taking uk out of the game is rough for allies.

Let me explain USA’s movements at war to stop sea lion:

R1 usa sends a bomber. so if germany plans to shuffle units to scotland germany has to keep something back to gaurd transports (usually not a problem).  USA only needs to send a couple fighters on R2 to fly into UK to make R3 uk takedown look really grim for germany. Then you got to fly 2-6 fighters more to UK on USA R3, which is no problem. Then the takedown looks really bad.

as long as uk buys inf and artillery (to strafe whatever drops hit scotland), UK should be fine.

It’s actually hard for germany to take UK if USA is at war. even a stingy USA would send at least 6 fighters + bomber. 4 hits a round on defense in LL.
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If you really really really really want to do HEAVY pacific play with USA. you could ALWAYS fly back the fighters you sent to UK back to the pacific half of the board.

so it is not like you GAVE UP on pacific. USA flying air to UK to guard them temporarily is then going to pacific when the threat is over is not a bad idea.
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Also if you look at the amount of air usa sent… it isn’t the maximum amount I could send if I wanted to. I used a low ball numbers to prove how hard it is for germany to take UK with USA in the mix. I am the paranoid type and would rather send 2 many than 2 little to save UK and MAKE SURE I don’t have to come back to europe and that UK and Russia has it.

[Cow]

also I usually attack r2 with japan as usually usa doesn’t have fighters in range of UK, but people have started to do that lately… so jap attacks r3 which isn’t too bad either.

[Butcher]

If you’re going to conduct Sealion, just have Japan invade the turn before Germany invades the United Kingdom.  Problem solved.

[Cow]

exactly what i been saying THANK YOU BUTCHER JESUS.

[Butcher]

You were complaining about the U.S. being able to prevent Sealion, so I assumed you weren’t delaying the Japanese attack (like the J2 attack you describe with a G4 Sealion).

[Jennifer]

@Butcher:

If you’re going to conduct Sealion, just have Japan invade the turn before Germany invades the United Kingdom.  Problem solved.

That was exactly the alteration I made to the strategy.  Thus, Cow’s posturing about sending stuff on Round 1 is meaningless since America cannot send stuff on Round 1, but he failed to read what I wrote and went on the assumption (and you know what that means…) that we were still talking a round 1 attack by Japan.

Thus, Japan attacks Aleutians, Guam, Wake, Borneo and the Solomons on round 2. (Requires a round 1 purchase of 2 transports with proper staging elsewhere to get to these zones) denying a surprised America the NOs for the pacific islands, hawaii trilogy and alaska duet.  It of course assumes America is not stacked in SZ 26, in which case, blow them to kingdom come!

Alternate:  Move your fleet over to like SZ 14 so you can blast the Americans in either Hawaii or LA.  The position (with two transports) still allows you to get Midway/Wake and Aleutians so the plan isn’t too far off, all you are doing is tipping your hand.

Germany 3, take England.

The beauty:  If Germany does poorly on round 1, the plan can be altered.  The carrier, destroyer and submarine purchase usually made for Germany is equally good protecting 11 transports as it is defending the Baltic Sea.

[Cow]

Still depends on who you play. Some people do keep air in range to defend UK. to make japan wait.
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Also opening moves with germany are becoming more and more standardized, you just pick a standardized japan opener to match it.

[Jennifer]

Every strategy should be opponent-oriented.  I am playing a specific way against JWW because I’ve played him before.  While that may not give me the win, I feel it’s stronger against that opponent then going a “traditional” way.

As I play the big three in global 40 (and a couple others) I learn how they play and what can and cannot work.  For instance, an all infantry build for germany just doesn’t work, the board is too big.

[Cow]

no G1 and J1 is standardized. Sea lion, heavy russia/africa. there are only 2 openers. possibly 3 if you include giving france to italy for africa heavy play.

[Jennifer]

Go navy?
Go industrial?
Go ground forces?
Go mixed air/ground?
Go mixed air/navy?
Go mixed air/navy/ground?
Go mixed ground/navy?

Attack Neutrals?
Don’t Attack Neutrals?
Attack SZ 110?
Attack SZ 106?
Attack SZ 109?

Declare War on Russia?
Don’t Declare War on Russia?

Attack Normandy?
Don’t Attack Normandy?

And those are just the decisions Germany has to make on round 1!

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Buy 3 Transports?
Buy 2 Transports and an industrial complex?

Attack Russia?
Don’t Attack Russia?

Plow into China?
Stack but advance in China?
Stack and hold in China?
Retreat in China?

Unify fleet?
Break up fleet?

Attack American Fleet?
Attack American Fleet and Philippines?
Leave America alone?

If you attack America, do you hit the British Battleship?
If you attack America, maybe you dont want to hit the British Battleship

Where do you want your airpower in Japan, Korea, Manchuria, Jehol, KSI, KWA?

They have a lot of options on round 1 as well.

[GoSanchez6]

I know this off topic Jennifer but what is the Die Flottenmorderein mean in scandinavian.

[Cow]

there’s not that many choices jennifer. there are only so many objectives. NOs/Africa/UK/Russia.

your r1 is standardized based on what you are trying to achieve. just like revised and aa50, there are only 3-4 openers that I respect, because they are min maxed.

[Jennifer]

@GoSanchez6:

I know this off topic Jennifer but what is the Die Flottenmorderein mean in scandinavian.

It’s German for “The Fleet Killer” in feminine (Die vs Das or Der, always forget the masculine form in German…whatever. lol)  I seem to have an uncanny ability to destroy my opponents fleets, despite what the calculators say. (It probably has something to do with casualty selection.)

I was given the title officially after sinking yet another fleet of EMs, but others have concurred.  Of course, this was back in the days of Revised…

@Cow:

your r1 is standardized based on what you are trying to achieve. just like revised and aa50, there are only 3-4 openers that I respect, because they are min maxed.

Look above.  There are certainly more than 3 or 4 openers.  What, I believe, you are saying is that there are only 3 to 4 grand, over-arching tactical choices the Axis can aim for (2 or 3 for the allies, perhaps.)  To that, I would agree.

A) Russia
B) England
C) Africa
D) Turtle

1. Italy
2. Japan
3. Germany

But there are, I would over-exaggerate, uncountable openings to get to those conclusions - some better than others - some decided by the dice despite the best tactical minds behind the countries.  Factually, there are countable ways, each opening can be associated to a value in the set of all natural numbers, therefore, even if there was an infinite selection of openings, it would still be a countable set, but I digress…the fact is, there are a lot of different openings.  I have even opened one game without attacking the British navy what-so-ever and ignoring Africa/Med.  I beat Russia and had England on the ropes but Japan fell and from there it was only time before Italy did…but it certainly was not a standard opening!

[Cow]

yeah and that’s why you lost.

if ABCD are your only options, then there are 1 best way to do each of them. you should do that since you act first.

[Cow]

yes, contrary to your belief, there exists a way that yields the highest possible odds for what you are doing while giving up the least amount of opportunity.

It’s just like economics where if you keep adding workers to your factory your marginal product eventually goes to zero, to put that in game terms, instead of sending 6 fighters and 2 infs to kill 1 inf… you may just send 3 and use the remaining figs to somewhere else.

so not sinking uk ships r1 made you give up 50 tuv worth of naval sinking which lead to uk getting boats and men sooner for you to deal with… so uk go to thwart your capabilities with russia that much sooner.

ok got it. you smart.

[Cow]

I only choose between 2 G1s for revised. A) hold karelia B) don’t hold karelia… depends on what russia buys… I assume russia kills ukraine and west russia R1, because he should as it’s the best opener, there is, in terms of total unit value and in terms of unit count kills. It’s a very good trade.
~aa50 openers for G1~
In AA50 there is the conservative opener. EP and Ukraine drop 1 inf 1 tank from france to libya… hold ukraine so you can 8 guy egypt if uk tries to hold it. the end.  Not rocket science. africa is the key to pumping total # of units on europe (since italy can pump out 4-5 guys a round instead of 3 inf… you last a lot longer with those extra guys).

You also force russia to maximize what he has in caucasus since you can send 6 tank 2-4 inf + 1 art (depending on ukraine r1 casualties).
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If no bid was placed in egypt you can 2 sub 1 fighter for SZ 2… skip SZ 12 and plan on winning egypt with the bomber and 5 guys… you should win with zero bid there. 1 inf bid turns that attack into a overcards vs pocket pair odds… 38-50% is kind of cool.

I wouldn’t knock you for trying.
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karelia is more for gamblers unless a russia bid was put there. hell I usually put a tank in belorussia… if someone wants to gamble fighters on an AA gun and hope my inf don’t score more than 4 hits SURE THAT’S FINE.

I’ve done it before, but I seen how that goes when you lose and it’s way worse than losing in SZ 12…
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There is the baltic states stack

this opener only varies depending on how one chooses what to do with africa A) screw it B) do a maybe maybe not C) serious africa. The way I do it is give up france 1 inf 1 tank libya from france move 2 inf down to 8 drop possibly on egy… r2 egypt backs away or it’s dead on G2… if he backs away, I can drop 2 guys ukraine and possibly swing tanks down to hold it sometimes… which is hilarious if all of russia’s stuff is up top . you can sometimes R3 caucasus. hilarious.
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So that is 4 viable openers. All of which vary maybe slightly depending on if you hold france or put 3 inf poland.

~ oh wait this is a dice game. there is the industrial complex on france thing… which only works if you can stay 45ipc+ and if your AA guns shoot down usa and/or uk’s industrial bombings so you can make more than 10 guys.

so now we have 5 legit aa50 G1s… which is better than revised. although I liked revised in the sense that I could play crazy aggressive as allies in almost every game,  russia typically gets 2-4 tanks a round till japan shows up then it is inf / art. uk threatens france/poland/germany from up top top, while usa on the belly, and russia on the mouth. it’s a rush games are chop chop 7 rounds is the avg game length. sometimes it is sad as hell and allies can’t hit germans and japs can’t hit russians… those games go 9 rounds…  unless I am axis and instead of racing uk shuffles guys into russia in which case I have to bring germany to caucasus and force action by busting it, otherwise both sides could make about the same amount of money and have a giant stalemate which is really lame… stalemate ends when one side can get bombers and bombs the other side, which can take awhile because bombers are expensive and aa guns / low dice rolls can set you back… takes 3 rounds at least to get your bomber worth in damage… but honestly i seen this happen in aa50 too… just not as frequently… I don’t meet too many extreme turtlers and usually you can bust through somewhere or out produce the guy

global has 5 too. G1 can choose between sea lion, head towards africa, russia R1 attacks, setup to do Russia R2, hit and run on france to give to italy.

because of the political situation by default you’re always hitting uk naval, more or less relentless depending on what you’re doing.

[Jennifer]

Well, the situation was more Germany pounded hard on France then TOOK Russia but did not sink any British ships. It was nothing in the Pacific but a standard, boring ass kill China first game in which the American fleet eventually - as it ALWAYS does - overwhelms the Japanese. (The only surefire way I have found so far to stop America from owning the Pacific early in the game is to sink them all before they can build up.  Then hit Hawaii, Wake, Guam, Philippines, Solomons and Aleutians to deny ANZAC/America all the NOs possible.)

[Cow]

IDK jenn… it’s still rough to do pacific as japan if usa is pouring all his resources into it.

Did usa do some italy play? How are you taking russia’s capitol with uk in the mix? Doesn’t russia just fight germans in the bottom while uk goes up top (norway/finland/march down to help russia)? naval base scotland and uk can drop down and handle that northern IC… russia has to just handle the bottom.

Russia has less money, less air… but he is closer to his major IC to make cheap infantry/artillery mixes… should be able to handle the bottom. as long as he only buys armor the round before he attacks or for a counter attack.

just got to weather that early storm. let usa deal with italy. you can do italy with 20-30 bucks a round… maybe a huge initial buy. it’s not that taxing. when italy gets bankrupted you’re done with him.

as far as pacific goes. meh.  pacific isn’t required round 1-3, it’s just optional for usa… not in danger of losing the game. Lose a couple NOs woopy do… I am just happy when usa actually gets a battle most of the time.
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It’s a fair fight usually in the end… except usa does have a slight advantage with anzac naval being able to nut cracker or merge for defense… comes a point when anzacs are buying land units only. out of takever paranoia.