Germay can force Sea Lion turn three!

[Arminius Germanicus]

Turn one

Germany buys one aircraft carrier and two transports

Attack sz109 w 1ftr & 1sub
Attack sz 110 w 1ftr 1tac & 2sub
Attack sz 111 w  1ftr 1tac & 2sub
Attack sz 112 w 1sub 1crs 1tac 1ftr & 1bb

Where does the 6th sub come from  :?

Build your fleet in  sz 112 with your existing navy (this battle is overkilled because (besides the sub) you can’t afford any loss of navy - not even a wounded BB - you need the fleet intact to protect your builds.

I think thats the weak spot in this strategy, if UK hit you there (like it did me on our first game) it could all be over very fast. Our UK player attacked me there (I would too, especially if transports were build in SZ112 - I build in SZ113) with what was left.
Here it would be 1CV (only good for 2 hits) 1DD 3FIG 1TAC (2,3,3,3,4) against
1BB (assumed damage) 1CRU 1CV 2FIG (2,3,4,4,4).
Not really good for UK,prepare to loose the CV , DD & the TAC.
Try to save the 3FIG for defending London. 1 or 2 combatrounds to give Damage to the German fleet. If all transports are in SZ112 I would sacrifice the 3 FIG as well to sink the whole fleet in one sweep.

[zooooma]

@JamesAleman:

Would it change your plans if UK pulled a fighter, tank and infantry from Alexandria into London UK2?

UK1: Transport and cruiser from 98 to 92, Fighter from Alexandria to carrier moved into 92, DD from 91 to 94 to block Italian navy. Build 9 infantry save 2 IPCs collect 28+2=30.

UK2: Transport from 92 to 106, drop off Infantry and Armor, land fighter in London. Three extra units plus 10 infantry production. Defense force: 22 infantry, 1 armor, 4 fighters, 1 tac bomber also 1 arm and infantry if 106 transport not sank-likely if you hit with 1 sub vs 1 DD. 28 pieces or 30 pieces on London G3. Did not remove any units from G2 as I’m not sure what you hit London with on G2 air wise.

Result Italian navy in tack and Egypt abandoned. Is London saved??

Germany can block with a Cruiser in sz91, but the loss of bombardment hurts, plus UK cans till get the fighter in.

UK collects 36 IPCs turn two, 39 if there are no German subs on board.  That builds seven infantry and three tanks.  Germany kills about six units wave one, over seven with the cruiser.

@Arminius:

Where does the 6th sub come from  :?

Oops!  1s post edited.  
@Arminius:

I think thats the weak spot in this strategy, if UK hit you there (like it did me on our first game) it could all be over very fast. Our UK player attacked me there…   …with what was left.
Here it would be 1CV (only good for 2 hits) 1DD 3FIG 1TAC (2,3,3,3,4) against
1BB (assumed damage) 1CRU 1CV 2FIG (2,3,4,4,4).
Not really good for UK,prepare to loose the CV , DD & the TAC.
Try to save the 3FIG for defending London. 1 or 2 combatrounds to give Damage to the German fleet. If all transports are in SZ112 I would sacrifice the 3 FIG as well to sink the whole fleet in one sweep.

On average that fleet only kills one plane.  Killing two is bad, killing two and wounding a battleship is atrocious.  I wonder the odds on that battle.  If Germany gets a draw and keeps the transports,  they’re home free against an airless England.

@Arminius:

(I would too, especially if transports were build in SZ112 - I build in SZ113)

UK can hit that space with air if they build an IC or move one to sz110.

@JamesAleman:

By the way, how many air units do you expect to lose G1?

Well, on average results only one.  But I don’t expect average results everywhere - the odds are against that.  I’m expecting an average plane loss of between one and two, but I’d like t work it out.

The beauty is if you loose too many planes, too much navy, or if the British survive with too much navy (essentially if you get unlucky), you can build you fleet in sz114 and be in okay shape against Russia (considering having been unlucky).  With the extra plane from Alexandria and the diversion of the cruiser, maybe you can only do Sea Lion if you get lucky turn one.  The fleet’s a nice build if it forces UK to build all infantry and divert the Alexandrian fighter.  It’ll also come in very handy attacking Russia and defending Norway.

[Blitchga]

My worry with this strat is that if the luck goes bad on G1 then you can put yourself in a bad position against Russia, something that Germany and the Axis as a whole cannot allow. They must bring a near perfect game to pull off a win. Otherwise it would be interesting to try a couple times on an unsuspecting opponent in order to switch things up a bit.

[zooooma]

@Blitchga:

My worry with this strat is that if the luck goes bad on G1 then you can put yourself in a bad position against Russia, something that Germany and the Axis as a whole cannot allow. They must bring a near perfect game to pull off a win. Otherwise it would be interesting to try a couple times on an unsuspecting opponent in order to switch things up a bit.

With the addition of the African forces to the defense of UK, I agree you need good luck to pursue this - either lose no planes or keep a sub on the East of UK or both.

As for the German position vs Russia, all you’ve done G1 is conquer France and wipe out the UK fleet.  These are sound goals in a war against Russia.  The naval build will ensure a long life for your Baltic fleet.  This will speed things ups against Russia and buy you time against the Allied incursion.  Furthermore, you’ve forced UK to build cautiously and defensively round one.  I would open this way even with no rea intention of Sea Lion.

Incidentally, can you show me a G1 opening that doesn’t leave you in a tough spot against Russia should the luck go very badly?

[JamesAleman]

Why do you attack on G2? Would it be better to land in Scotland instead? Make them attack you? Say they built all infantry, then the air and 10 1’s would be 3-4 hits, you would hit twice, not lose any air, and if they stayed a second round they risk taking and being out of position to defend London.

If they built 2 artillery instead of saving money, they hit you 4-5 times to your 2 (3 if you are lucky) times. It would be possible that they got a 6th hit if they get “lucky” and were stuck taking it.

Better yet, just add 4 units to Scotland. Now the allies have to figure out what to hit that with and if they over commit, you will have pulled out 4-6 units in the London stack, if they ignore it, you have 4 extra units to keep your air hitting strong in later rounds. Or non combat an extra guy and 1 AA gun, to discourage attacking it all together.

Regarding blocking with a cruiser, the African force can still land during non combat, after you sank the cruiser with air and either a DD or CV.

[zooooma]

@JamesAleman:

Why do you attack on G2? Would it be better to land in Scotland instead?

This is a good idea, I’ve edited the post one.  Also I now encourage taking Yugoslavia G1, allowing for a ten transport build G2.

I’m still not sure sea Lion is the best plan, but if UK doesn’t react enough to the threat it can easily become the best plan.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@zooooma:

@JamesAleman:

Why do you attack on G2? Would it be better to land in Scotland instead?

This is a good idea, I’ve edited the post one.  Also I now encourage taking Yugoslavia G1, allowing for a ten transport build G2.

I’m still not sure sea Lion is the best plan, but if UK doesn’t react enough to the threat it can easily become the best plan.

10 transports? How does Germany hit 70 ipcs? 30 orig+2 NB+4 France+19 French ipcs+10 NO+2 Yugo+1 Finland+1 Bulgaria=69

[zooooma]

@calvinhobbesliker:

10 transports? How does Germany hit 70 ipcs? 30 orig+2 NB+4 France+19 French ipcs+10 NO+2 Yugo+1 Finland+1 Bulgaria=69

Finland is worth 2 IPCs a turn.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

If Germany pretends it is alone on the map against England I believe they can forceably capture London on G4 after dropping a large number of units in scotland G3. The G3 Landing only has 60ish attack pips not a sure thing.

I guess the most immediate threat to Germany is a R4 attack in force into Poland. Then that soft minor comolex Berlin is threatened.

Your Japanese ally could pour into siberia trying to hunt the 18 inf down and busting the line to distract Russia. Japan going after India probably isnt going to happan presuming Japan waits to attack until J4 just so america cant help defend London. By then india owns the DEI and is making 27ipc a turn.

How many land ASSUMING Germany lands everything they can, 20 land units G3 and I think 16 G4 what is left to defend or retake Berlin? You can build 3 in Berlin G5. A bunch of tanks in W Germany with your 80ipc and also a few mech in france and a tac bomber in normandy?

[zooooma]

@MarkVIIIMarc:

If Germany pretends it is alone on the map against England I believe they can forceably capture London on G4 after dropping a large number of units in scotland G3. The G3 Landing only has 60ish attack pips not a sure thing.

The G3 landing I calculate 81 pips vs 60, assuming Germany has five planes survive the AA gun and made a G2 Scotland landing.  England narrow the gap by attacking sz111 or Scotland, but not by enough.  I’ve presented these figures in the first post, edited last night.  Check it out!

@MarkVIIIMarc:

How many land ASSUMING Germany lands everything they can, 20 land units G3 and I think 16 G4 what is left to defend or retake Berlin? You can build 3 in Berlin G5. A bunch of tanks in W Germany with your 80ipc and also a few mech in france and a tac bomber in normandy?

What can be mustered to the defense of Germany depends on the strength and position of Italy, as well as exactly what America is doing.  This is probably going to require (much) more play testing.  Fortunately that’s fun!

@MarkVIIIMarc:

Your Japanese ally could pour into siberia trying to hunt the 18 inf down and busting the line to distract Russia. Japan going after India probably isnt going to happan presuming Japan waits to attack until J4 just so america cant help defend London. By then india owns the DEI and is making 27ipc a turn.

Japan won’t be far into Siberia this early, but every dollar taken from Russia helps.  By turn two Japan should have a major IC in Manchuria and should be in India by turn four.  SBRs against Russia should begin as soon as a landing strip has been established.  This brings a lot of pressure to Russia, but not soon enough to stop a R5 invasion of Berlin.  germany needs to hold out a little longer.

One of these days I’m going to look seriously at harassing North America with Japan.  I don’t expect they’ll do very well, but the diversion may be enough to save Italy and German occupied England.  One of these days…