1st: i have to clarify something: i never, i repeat, never, said that i would go to seazone 115. i just asked if a naval base could be used in that zone and 127. that is all. i do not understand why you always mention that!  grin

Sorry my mistake, but caused by your inaccuracy 

2nd:
as germany i wipe out all of the british fleet surrounding the uk.

OK got that

so there is no destroyer to attack with

Sure there is, take the one along with the carrier of Gibraltar  :roll:

and the three or four time i played germany the battleship never got hit

Lucky you 
But defenders got 2x 50% chances, so one hit would be average.

this means you have three fighters, a tactical bomber and a carrier to attack a german fleet consisting of destroyer, cruiser, battleship.

add the destroyer

maybe a german carrier is a good choice.

and erase maybe 

but one fact is clear, you can only attack one navy! not both. repelling a german sealion or doing taranto raid? what would you do?

If you threat Sea Lion (with your original builds) on G1,
I would surely wipe out the german fleet.

leaving taranto raid means giving the italian everything he wants to have. two transports, a battleship etc. no difficult buys, just troops…which means an easier access to africa an helping germany out in russia as well.

With no Taranto Raid the Italian will become strong, but never strong enough to hold of the US (if it goes KIF), I think if germany is “weak” (because complete G1 buy is lost) Italy can´t win the Game for the Axis.

i say, minimum two planes, a carrier damaged with no option of salvation… evil giving the german time to recover…italy strong in the med etc. i think you get it…

I would rather sacrifice the carrier and save the planes, the carrier would only be prey for the luftwaffe or (remaining) subs.

okay. then lets assume this: G1 buy is a carrier and two transports. G2 fleet moves to seazone 127 (this means that the british attack got repelled nor never occured). so it is obvious that the german fleet has to return to seazone 112. so i would buy 2 subs instead of one as germany in G2. maybe in G3 as well

Ok lets say UK got frightend and UK1 build only Inf,
gathering fleet at Sz91 (gibraltar) or sz106 (canda), move the cursier from 85 on its way north (gibraltar at best at UK2). This move I make everytime by the way, so no special to counter your operation sea bear 
So on G2 I see that you move to 127, so I move my fleet to 109 and build 3-4 subs,
so 1 carrier + 2 Destroyer (1 form canada) 3 subs , 3 fighters , 1 tactical and maybe the cruiser if moved to gibralter on UK2 and survied until UK3.
So 1x0 , 5x2 , 3-4x3 , 1x4 (11-12Hits)

This against 1 Cruiser 1 Battleship 1 carrier 2 Fighters and 2-4 subs
2-4x1 1x2 , 1x3 , 3x4 (with 9-11 Hits)
Destroyer for defend (and against sub build on UK2) would be better choice.

But anyway I admit that would be hard (because the subs soak hits)for UK,
so better attack on UK1 I think. But if you move again to sz127 on G4 and have to return to sz127 on G5 than its over b/c of the US.
Or your fleet stays in 127 (where it is of little use).

i did not move the fleet to seazone 115, no it was 112. there the build occurs.

I asked why you move them to SZ115 on G2 not on G1. I assume only to unload 8 Inf there. So you move to 112 on G1 and all your G1 builds were placed there…
As UK I would wipe you out instanly (abandon the Taranto Raid) !
B/c I can End the German Fleet (especially if the Transprts are in SZ112 t b/c bonus damage of 21IPCs for free if  win the fight and UK will) with a minimum of 1DD 1CV 3 FIG and 1 TAC. UK got 7 Hits and attacks at 2,0,3,3,3,4. Germans defend with best of 4 Hits (if BB isn´t damaged before) and 2,3,4. Maybe you bring up a sub there (but this lowers your chances to wipe out most of the fleet in G1 I think) so max of 5 hits with 1,2,3,4 in defend. In this case I would build 3 tanks in south africa (counter the Italians) and only a few units in Britain or save the money for UK2. And maybe activate Greece with the transport form egqpt just for distraction.

the return to seazone 112 is kind of obligatory.

Sure if you want to end up in SZ127, but If you aren´t wiped out in UK1 then maybe in UK3… depends on what UK will buy, but I would buy at least some subs when germans move their fleet to SZ115 or SZ127 on G2 b/c they would mostly (depends on gemran aircraft) be safe…
So UK could easily attack you on UK3 when your are in SZ112 again.

no CV on G1, but i think that a battleship, a cruiser and a destroyer are able to defend those british fighters. or not?

No I am afraid they aren´t able to defend themselve against a massive UK strike,
see above

than an aircraft carrier instead of the destroyer and one transport are in. this way there are 6 troops less in scandinavia, four during the attack on novgorod.

That would be the most regular buy to threat sea lion and could work,
far better chances as only 1 DD for defend. You trade 1Hit @ defend 2 against 4Hits (Fighters land there) @ 2,4,4 !

in G3 returning from seazone 127 to 112 you can drop eight troops from western germany in norway

So you mentioned your fleet moves to SZ115 on G2 or to SZ127 on G2 !
I am confused by your statements…
But it makes a little sense now, you move on G2 to SZ127 to unload troops in Finland.

to achieve a quick getting and back from finland the northern way round it is needed to build this naval base. not just because i can do it via the baltic sea, but also to put a threat towards the uk into the game.

IMO its no threat for a expirenced player, only in G1 when you pretend sea lion.
But once you move backwards on G2 (127 or baltic sea again) the threat is over.
Even with the Taranto Raid done and buildung all Inf in UK1 I would simply build so much subs as possible, so 3 or 4 (not attackable by Luftwaffe) on UK2 an wait to crush the fleet when it returns to the baltic (so on G3 / UK3) with all the subs and RoyalAirForce or what else is left and available.

to force the british to secure its homeland which means less british naval buys.

This counts only for UK1 or not even there if you don´t buy a CV on G1
as I mentioned before

but this means that german tanks can be build directly in russia (novgorod). the german position is strong, so reinforcements are no more needed there. another point is the russian NO from the start on being denied. now the southern russia is getting interesting, you are right. but with italy on the german southern flank…this point, actually, i have to elaborate yet.

Well if you are lucky to get to this point you can maybe overwhelm the russians,
the lost NO for Russia is a big + ,but think of what you have to to for it…

Italians are supposed to react on UK - Taranto Raid or activating Greece for example
and should have in mind that Egypt must be taken (as Greece) for NO achivement.

yeah! i thought, i did. well:
G1: one destroyer, three transports (29 ipc, saving one), placement in seazone 112 - capture of paris, normandy, yugoslavia, bulgaria, finland, one NO (swedish ore), in total 64.
G2: one naval base, 10 infantry, 3 artillery, one submarine, saving one ipc. - no direct actions just movements to secure coming attack on all fronts. italy secured southern france on I1: 47 plus two NOs (france, swedish ore), in total 57.
G3: 11 infantry, 3 artillery, 2 submarines - capture of bessarabia, eastern poland, baltic states, vyborg and karelia. stack in baltic states to secure all tanks in there. (here it becomes clear, why italy has to move some troops to romania)
G4: depends. minimum 10 infantry. the rest…depends on the movements of the UK and the USA.

now you are talking  
G1: CV instead of DD+Transport+1IPC (wich you saved before)
What if left after your attack on the RN ?
Did you attack SZ109 and/106 ?
G3 Problem, how should the Italians magae it to get there with even 1 Inf on I3 ?
You have to use starting units or I1 builds to get there,
but this means no max support to take africa or greece…
missing the Italian NO (wich I as Italian would be after).

but there has to be a continious coming of minimum two or three italian infantries to romania every turn

Thats very heavy to handle for the Italian.
Moving troops right from the start and continously to Romania means less actions elsewhere.

but this makes it really hard in the mediterranian for italy. that is why i thought of going with two german infantry on a italian transport, securing the third NO for Germany in G3 which is a bit insecure, unfortunately

Really hard is just right said…
Think about giving Bulgaria to the Italians, they can use them for Romania and can be more flexible in Med I hope.

as seen above bulgaria gets activated by germany, because of the big lack of troops. but the activation by italy is not a bad idea, thanks.

you´re welcome

knowing this, what do you think? is it viable to play like this?

As you see in my descriptions its not completly viable, but with little changes (the CV is a must) some luck (as always) and if your UK Player isn´t well experienced. But its sounds like fun anyway, so try it and tell us  

If you build a naval base in finland in G2, is it possible to use it in the baltic sea sea zone 115 as well as in sea zone 127?  huh(this is, actually, my central concern.)

Yes you can use it on both coasts. At least thats how it works everywhere else on the map (Gibraltar, Britan , West Germany etc.). An exception or special rule is afaik not mentioned.

instead of trying a sea-lion you go to finland with the complete fleet in G2 buying mostly infantry with some artillery (and subs for naval “defence”), return to sea zone 112 in G3 building the same as in G2, you can land in G4 in northern russia (novgorod, karelia, archangelsk, nenetsia).

Mhh…
what did you buy G1 ? 1 CV & 2 Transports ?
Why you move the fleet to Finnland/SZ115 on G2 ?
When did you attack Russia ? on G4 with a big strike on all fronts ?
I don´t know if its a good idea to move out again to SZ 112 on G3.
Depends on what the UK build on Turn1+2 and what would be able to hit your fleet there.
So I assume that your plan will end here…

therefor the massive infantry builds in G1 and G2

So no CV on G1 ?
Your fleet will never make it up to SZ127 I believe  
Btw - whats massive ?
IMO massive is when you buy 10 inf on G1 - so all your IPC gone for INF.
All below 10 isn´t massive I think, since you have to restore losses form france
and build up at leats a few units for defense in france.

G3 more eight troops to norway.

So you build at least 3 Transporters on G2 ?

G4 once again.

Whats with moving to SZ127 on G4 ?
So invading Russia or bring addition units to norway ?

at the same time germany should be able to bring in 15/16 troops to novgorod from the north, eight with the fleet plus troops from the baltic states, mech infantry, tanks, airplanes (all of them)

Baltic States ? so you attack on G3 ?

what do you think? is it a good idea or just waste of material?

For what reason you build the naval base, I don´t get it….
And also the point with double use of transports bothers me  :evil:

what counter-strategies could be applied?

As Russian I would abbandon the north asap and defending a ring surround mosow.
Focusing so much on taking the north means no harm for the russian in the “rich” south.
Because south russia is worth more IPC I prefer Tactics on this route.

what specific buys for germany, the uk and for russia would you suggest? etc.

Would be nice if you post your specific suggestions/ideas first  

how should italy assist? from I1 on bringing troops to southern russia or not?

Good question, if not going with Germany to stalingrad I dont see how Italians could be really of use as can openers. So maybe they should simply take Egypt and hold it as long as possible and prepare for defense (against US) their homeground. Maybe they could even help germany defend and retake western europe territories if invaded by allies. Worked in one of our games for some turns, but in the end it depends on the opportunities the Italian will get by the actions of UK.

so it could be possibly make it a lot easier to go through the ukraine instead, because the russian troops have to mass in the north seeing a big attack coming.

As Russian I would mass at Russia as I said b/c its right in the middle and the only city you can´t afford to lose. BTW wich troops should go through Ukraine ?
A small task force could take some territories and be a distraction for russia,
but it had to be the Italians (german lack of troops) - wich means less focus on africa (my italian builds have to be for russia as far as possible).
Qustion: who activates bulgaria… Italy or Germany ?
            I think Italy would be wise if you want to head east with them !

@Frontovik:

@Gargantua:

You can play Europe seperate from global?

i mean at the forum ^^

I think Gargantua was only joking 
Your statement was clear,
but was it nescessary to open a new topic  :?

If the USSR turtles on Moscow then they will lose their southern territories and be outproduced by the factories on Novgorod and Volgograd.

Sounds so easy….  :roll:

If Germans are so lucky to get both very fast…
but if the russian player moves smart
it will cost germany to much time to get them.
Meanwhile you will have to face a invasion in the west.
So its much about timing I guess

I am thinking global, and I dont see the Euro-axis threating India in the first 3 turns of the game.

That wasn´t my intended point.

Once you add in the Soviets 18inf in the north,

What do you mean with add ? Attack Jap with 18Inf ?

but most players wil disagree, and insist that attacking Russia is the only way to go as Japan

I think thats a result of the previous AAA games,
especially in the 2nd Edition (we played most in our group) it was the way to go.

And Just so we’re clear, this stratgey dose not account for the changes made by the “alpha scenario”.

OK

I dont think the game in the pacific needs to be changed that much, outside of what is listed in the offical errata.

So you one of a few who believe that….
Personally I think once the Alpha Scenario (or Beta, gamma, delta whatever will maybe follow) is approved by most of the gaming comunity, WOTC will follow and make it “official”.

I am not to sure Axis move in Europe will greatly effect how the British India player moves.

Think Global  :lol:

I don´t had a special move or something in mind,
but I am convinced that Axis (especially Italy and Germany) had to coordianate their actions if they want to have a chance to win the game. The allies aren´t depending (except sea lion was sucsessful) on each other in such a scale.
Germany and Italy has to hold long enough that Japan can become that beast
wich will help bring down russia. With experienced players as russian it´s nearly Impossible for Germany to sucsessfully conduct Barbarossa alone.

1. Russia has more IPC to spend
2. Russia has no real enemy but 18 Inf in the east.
3. If Japs are stupid enough to attack Russia J1 instead of heading to India or Australia,
   that would break their back IMO. You cant take away Russia enough IPC while loosing
   valuable territories in the pacific b/c you used too much units in the north.
   I think this didn´pay out.
4. US has more IPC (especially pre-war +17IPC)
5. Germany gets NO Damn Bonus for Global, people who say they can easily preform
   sea lion are rediculous. You can never defend London against the US in Gobal.
   So that dosen´t count as advancement for me…

Also, given the odds, having 4inf, 4ftrs, 3arm and a tac, is going to be a tough nut to crack, espically with the high defensive value of the fighters.

Alpha Setup reduces Fighters for UK US and ANZAC too, so count again whats left for defense.

The US, in this scenario, will have 4inf 5ftrs and 4tacs in the Phillipines, which according to odds, is a very potent force, and it should inflict several casualties, in several rounds of fighting, similar to the HK force.

How that when half of the US AirForce is gone trough Alpha Scenario ?

doing so might exaust Japans offensive resources.

Thats how the war is won for the allies

BTW.
IS the US allowed to land Units in Hong Kong on US1 while not at war with Jap ?
I don´t think so…… and if Jap Attack UK on J1 you probarbly dosen´t have Hong Kong anymore when your turn starts 

I think your missing the point.Its not ment to be a war winning offensive spring-board,

I am aware of this… it uld rather be a war winning defensive as you described it.

but a place that Japan has to attack

Japan attack HK anyway with or w/o IC - b/c of the NOs.
Ignoring HK with Japan is simply not possible I guess…

and send a good chunk of dedicated offensive resources

enough offensive resources are already there at the start,
it only delays striking china for 1 (maybe 2) turn(s)

and where the British can hope to inflict serious casualties.

thats the only good point, but if it fails you loose much IPC you could have spend in India for 1-3 turns. It leaves you with no significant defense forces to stop the japs from going to india. In fact it makes them easier for it - at least thats my evaluation.

In this way, it keeps Japan from running amuck in the DEI for a turn or 2. In conjunction with the US move in the Phillipines, it forces Japan to attack these very strong defensive positions, where casualties could be very serious. Now Japan is forced into playing a reactionary game, as opposed to the allies. I supppose Japan could attack the US and UK on turn 2 if they wanted, but they would then have to deal with the other axis players wanteding to smack him more than likely  grin

OK from this point of view I understand your idea, but I am not really convinced…
In the end all Allies (except US) to their best to slow down the axis (at all costs) until US joins the war… This way you will win nearly every game as allies, extremly boring I think, but thats how the game works. So Yes this strat could work BUT in AAGlobal it depends on how your Co-Axis player will act or react, so your question cannot really be answwered I think…

It’s in the Pacific '40 errata.

Indeed it is, a longt time now - bought Pacific in Feb/March this year,
the errata was already available at this time,
so look out for it  

Also, I have heard a bunch of people mention something about reducing the starting Japanese airforce by 7 planes, dose anyone know where this is comming from or if this is offically posted?

It called the Alpha Scenario, you can find it on Larry Harris Site or here somewhere
(sould have been made sticky thread from the admins  :roll:)
There is alo more changed, additional Inf for China, moved UK ships (so Japs cannot kill transports in J1 attack) but also the Aircrafts of the allies were reduced in the same scale.

I think this IC would only be a lavish present for the Japs.
You only have to gift-wrap it  

I think it dosen´t matter how much units you can bring in there on Turn1,
Jap will take it with combined forces on J2 or J3 and saves in addition the IPC for building a (major?) IC in Asia. While UK just spends money 12/30IPC for the IC wich will belong to japs 1 or 2 turns later.
So in therory it doesn´t make sense for me, but I admit that sometimes it´s very good to surprise your opponent with unconventional ideas/tactics. Maybe this will break his long term plan (to take India or Australia), b/c of the new situation. So give it a chance,
but for me playing as Jap a would make a joyful leap if UK builds an IC (major or minor) in Hong Kong for me…. Excellent the Tenno would say  :evil:

I like tech gaming 

My group feels it dilutes the strategic value of the game and makes it more based on luck

You can prevent this (based more on Luck) with house rules I think,
like the SienceToken from AAA50 (I love them) for example.
But in the end all comes down to luck while rolling the dice,
it dosen´t matter how perfect your strategy or tactic is,
if you loose a fight you never thought could happen.
For example 1 defending infantry stops 3-4 attacking infantry (supported by aircraft).
Happens rarely but it happens, in my games at least once an evening 

And since most of the techs have been reduced effectiveness
like heavy bombers , Long range aircraft or have been totaly dropped out
like Insturdial Tech (Inf only cost 2 IPC) there is no supreme tech anymore that wins the game. At least thats what I believe…