In Defense of Defending France.

[Trig]

The French have a unique lot in any WWII game. Damage control. They will almost always fall, and thus their job is twofold- maximize German casualties, and strike back afterwards. In v3, which the new rules for Vichy, a 3rd is added, defend the empire aginst the Vichy.

The prevailing philosophy among most players is that some form of backup is need. Whether that be a small force in Algeria or Cameroon, or support for Abyssinia, there is almost always a cache of units that attempt to roll Free French so the French have an army.

The inherent problem with that is twofold. One, you are gambling. You are hoping that you roll and get those units on the Vichy rolls. This is a 50% chance, so mathematical half of those units will go Vichy and fight you. That isn’t that great. Even if Abyssinia is used, you still have to win the war, which is hard. Another problem is that you are draining resources from France itself, thus reducing the German casualties. No matter what, it seems something is sacrificed.

But is it? What if you do the unthinkable- empty everything into France. In that case, all forces you own, all you build, and even a militia upgrade for the one in Syria., goes to France. This means that nothing is left in the colonies. I’m not going to talk about where these go inside France, but I will assume you position them ideally. I think that is the ideal French plan. By its very nature it maximes German casualties. Secondly, due to leaving nothing for the Vichy to get, there is no danger of a early breakout in Africa. The only danger from Vichy is in the form of a transport. Hopefully you will have ships to stop that. Finally, you say, there is no French to use now! How will we strike back? By using your greatest advantage. Production. The Vichy cannot build anything, and only receive one lend lease per turn. They get a recruitmentroll, but it is at 2, and that mean you can expect an infantry once every 6 turns, or about 2 per game. Meanwhile, Free France can build, as well as receive at least 2 items of lend-lease, 3 if the Soviets are nice. This allows you to quickly build up a force and attack the undefend areas of Vichy. This then gives more money and allows a faster conquest.

In short, I believe that emptying the colonies and going all out in defense of France is the best tactic for France to empoy. It limits the Vichy options at no risk, maximies German casualties, and still allows for a quick buildup and counterstrike using lend-lease.

[Noneshallpass]

The forces outside Paris in 1936 are only one Foreign Legion in Northern Algeria, one Militia in Syria (cannot move unless upgraded) and one Infantry in Cochinchina, which may or may not get to France in time.

If you send them to France, depending on where you place them, they may not even get a chance to provoke German casualties, as they always have the option to surround Paris (units in Paris a removed) or to take Paris (units outside Paris are removed).

As the German player, I try to prepare for both options and take the path of least resistance.

All things, considered, I prefer to take my 50-50 chance with the Vichy rolls. At least if you get some Free French units, then you have at least something to rebuild your forces from with lend-lease and limited IPPs.

[Trig]

@noneshallpass You will always be able to get you units back in time, unless Germany attacks extremely early. Just use strategic naval move and a militia upgrade.
As for the not hitting Germans, yes the Germans go in less easily, but if you plan it out you can still force the most casualties. I don’t like the risk, to me it is better to have a slower build up with no oposition than the risk of a runaway Vichy and no buildup at all.

[sjelso]

@trig Doesn’t Abyssinia become Free French when France falls, regardless of Abyssinian victory or not?

[Adalwolf]

@sjelso I believe Abyssinia has to win by taking Eritrea to become Free France.

[insaneHoshi]

@manincellv

Abyssinia will always go FF (if it isn’t conquered by the Italians).

On topic, I don’t think that sending Abyssinia a single infantry is that much of an investment that detracts from the defense of France. If they are able to hold off an additional round, at that point it becomes more of a mutually exclusive choice one has to assess.

[JbuckBuddy]

1st priority should be inflicting losses on the germans. However my last game I did raise units in colonies and even flew the ftr and medium bomber to different colonies in the hope of them going FF.

The results?
Well about 50 50, the ftr went Vichy along with an infantry and militia who were all in algeria/tunisia.
I was able to keep all other colonies along with the French foreign legion in morocco, the medium bomber In west Africa and another man in syria.
I had high hopes but unfortunately there’s no way to properly predict what might happen, even scattering everything might still result in them just becomin Vichy making them harder to destroy.

On the other hand, the french air force seems destined to be destroyed by the blitz with a small chance of even taking down a German plane. The medium bomber in particular seems like it can do little in the defense of France except a possible air superiority casualty to be taken before the fighter, and in my game I was able to make great use of the medium bomber with the FF. And any help FF can get once France falls is good, especially planes which are expensive to LL. And worse case scenario u are looking at a slightly stronger Vichy, which can only atrack FF. In hindsight I wouldn’t have raised land troops, probably just sent the planes to different spots. (or just the medium bomber if going for a luftwaffe casualty in paris)

[Trig]

@jbuckbuddy Maybe, but every planes the Vichy gets then has to be killed by you, when it could have been killed by the Germans. Even that Medium bomber is a risk.

[insaneHoshi]

@trig Oh here is a spicy idea regarding the Med. Bomber. You fly it to St Pierre Island off Canada. If it goes FF, that’s great, you fly it back to somewhere useful. If it goes Vichy, its stuck there for the rest of the game!

[JbuckBuddy]

@insanehoshi Ha, not bad at all. But yes it would seem the only sure thing France can do is inflict maximum casualties on germans. Anything else is a coin toss at best.

[Trig]

@insanehoshi Great Idea! The only danger is Vichy capturing Normandy. It could attack your ships nearby, but that is not that bad.

[JbuckBuddy]

@trig hey I am curious, have been unable to get a definitive answer on this. If Vichy has not surrendured when Paris is liberated by allies, couldn’t Vichy forces attack the french in Paris and force the retreat of any UK or US troops as per Internal French Conflict on the Vichy reference sheet?

[JbuckBuddy]

@jbuckbuddy or would Paris be a “French” land zone at that point and not a “Free French” land zone, leaving Vichy unable to attack any french forces at that point since they are no longer the free french? Only poss solution I could think of, but wanted to be sure.

[Trig]

@jbuckbuddy
I believe that Free France would then be “France”, and thus not attackable. However, the Germans could take Paris, remaking “Free France” and then the Vichy could attack Aquitaine in the next turn, (assuming it was Aliied) as it would be Free French.

[Noneshallpass]

@JbuckBuddy

I think that Vichy cannot attack a liberated Paris.

Rule 14.4.3 says that Vichy can only ever attack Free France.

The Vichy NRS says that “If Vichy attacks a Free French land zone containing units not from Free France, these non Free French units do not participate in the combat and are moved to the nearest land zone in their possession”.

However, the Free France NRS says that “If Free French liberates Paris, it becomes a Major Power (effectively becomes France again)”.

Plus, on a related Vichy question in the FAQ :

"Q: What happens if USA liberates Aquitaine? Does it become Free French? And if so, can Vichy attack?

A: Aquitaine is an original French land zone. Until Paris is liberated, “France” does not exist. Thus, USA can not give it back as per 9.20. So any Allied forces liberating a Territory in French Home Country gets to keep it until Paris is liberated and “France” once again becomes a Major Power.

Vichy cannot attack an US possessed land zone."

For these reasons, I would think that Vichy cannot attack a liberated Paris, as France has been reinstated as a major power and is no longer Free France. They would essentially get to wait until Southern France is liberated.