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A&ARe (Enhanced) tech rules in AA50


  • 2007 AAR League

    Ok, maybe i’m just dense, but it seems to me that subs right now are completely useless. They either have to dive if no DD is present, or battle it out, not even a shot before they can dive, they defend at 1, and they can’t block seazones.  What is their purpose?

    VC’s…this one baffles me, the Axis can’t get to 15 without taking UK or one of the North American VC’s.  Seem’s counter intuitive, if the axis control all of Africa, Eurasia and the Pacific, you’d think it’s over.



  • @Emperor:

    Ok, maybe i’m just dense, but it seems to me that subs right now are completely useless. They either have to dive if no DD is present, or battle it out, not even a shot before they can dive, they defend at 1, and they can’t block seazones.  What is their purpose?

    En Masse, especially in the pacific where there’s room to spread them out, a USA sub strategy can be quite deadly.  It certainly makes he Japanese fleet consolidate for protection.  Use this in conjunction with a small carrier fleet and a bomber or two and Japan really has to be cautious about venturing out in small fleets.

    Limiting the IJN’s movement can really limit their expansion.  Thing is, US needs to do this early.  LAter on it might be too late as then Japan can plop down ICs in India / East Indies and move the fleet home.  Now it’s a must tougher going for USA to put pressure on Japan.



  • @axis_roll:

    En Masse, especially in the pacific where there’s room to spread them out, a USA sub strategy can be quite deadly.  It certainly makes he Japanese fleet consolidate for protection.  Use this in conjunction with a small carrier fleet and a bomber or two and Japan really has to be cautious about venturing out in small fleets.

    Limiting the IJN’s movement can really limit their expansion.  Thing is, US needs to do this early.  LAter on it might be too late as then Japan can plop down ICs in India / East Indies and move the fleet home.  Now it’s a must tougher going for USA to put pressure on Japan.

    Couldn’t agree with you more roll

    Subs are OVERPOWERED in the Pacific (for the US)
    Subs are UNDERPOWERED in the Atlantic (for Germany)

    I’ve seen US buy mostly SUBs and FTRs and basically keep Japan from getting anywhere near Hawaii
    Then these aircraft fly to Australia and it makes things even worse for Japan
    Japan is basically just forced to consolidate it’s fleet
    The combination of SUBs and Aircraft can totally dominate the Pacific
    In terms of “bang for the buck”, Subs and Air totally outclass Capital Ships - it’s not even close

    Throw in possible upgrades to Heavy Bombers, Jet Fighters, Super Subs, and Naval Shipyards (Subs at 5IPC) and the balance gets even worse

    Personally, what I would like to see is SUBs getting nerfed in the military department, but boosted in the economic department
    Some eg. would be…

    Naval Shipyards do not apply to SUBs
    Super Subs does not boost military attack, only economic attack
    More Economic attacks for SUBs (CRs, Strategic Sinking Raids as per SUB thread)

    SUBs should only be there to complement you navy, not be the backbone of your navy
    However, due to their cost efficiency, esp. for the US, this is what I’m seeing in the Pacific


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I disagree.  Submarines are hopelessly underpowered for America in the Pacific.  In the Atlantic no one needs submarines anyway, since the Axis don’t even have a prayer at having a fleet after round 5 anyway.

    BTW, I did find a tactic that works for submarines.  5 Stacks of 10 Submarines.  That way the enemy can’t just go obliterate them with bombers.

    It’s mightly expensive however.

    Also, submarines are a good tool to use when you are losing.  Huddle around your complex and dump a bunch of submarines to encourage the enemy to stay away.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Updated rules.  Changes are in red.  Anything in black is copy/pasted from original rules so don’t accuse me of making those different.

    It’s in doc format, the site does not support PDF uploads.

    Most of the changes were making name changes from W. Europe to France/NW Europe or S. Europe into Italy/Balkans etc.  Some minor content changes.

    NAs are added as optional additional rules so those of you who were complaining about “vast sweeping radical changes” can be appeased, while those of us who want NAs can keep them as per their original intent.

    Two naval units one or two of you were complaining about are also listed as optional additional rules (for the dozen or so of us who want them.)

    Document is saved to work with old versions of Word.  I’ll pretty it up in Ultimate Edition later when we get the typos and conflicts resolved. (The conflicts are what interest me, if I copied one thing over that says you can do this and the rule book in the box says you cannot, then we have to determine if it can or cannot be done.)

    AA50e.doc



  • @Cmdr:

    Updated rules.  Changes are in red.  Anything in black is copy/pasted from original rules so don’t accuse me of making those different.

    It’s in doc format, the site does not support PDF uploads.

    Most of the changes were making name changes from W. Europe to France/NW Europe or S. Europe into Italy/Balkans etc.  Some minor content changes.

    NAs are added as optional additional rules so those of you who were complaining about “vast sweeping radical changes” can be appeased, while those of us who want NAs can keep them as per their original intent.

    Two naval units one or two of you were complaining about are also listed as optional additional rules (for the dozen or so of us who want them.)

    Document is saved to work with old versions of Word.  I’ll pretty it up in Ultimate Edition later when we get the typos and conflicts resolved. (The conflicts are what interest me, if I copied one thing over that says you can do this and the rule book in the box says you cannot, then we have to determine if it can or cannot be done.)

    For the record, this is NOT an ENDORSED version of AA50e.

    Jennifer, please stop posting your assemblage of rules as The Enhanced Rules for AA50..  Your rules were not created via a consortium of A&A players to fix agreed upon game playout issues nor have they been play tested.  You have even incorporated rules from other game editions for no reason!

    Make up your own name for your Rules Set, do NOT used AA50e.

    How about AA50HP  (HodgePodge)?



  • I have some thoughts on subs/destroyers and there interaction.

    Right now the problem is 1 DD completely counters an unlimited number of subs, esp with the dreaded DD+Plane raid.  But detection roles and the like are a pain.  I have two ideas that may work.

    1 plane per 1 DD can attack subs.

    1 DD may prevent 1 sub from submerging.

    Either one of these I feel will allow subs to be more useful.  The absolute most important thing, however, is that DDs should not be allowed to block sub movement.  Take that single thing away and subs become much, much stronger in the Atlantic.

    As far as tech goes I would propose a point system.  Assign a point value to each tech.  Purchase researchers as normal.  Roll as normal for research, but add up the total rolls and apply them toward the selected tech.  You could assign different researches to different techs, but cannot change the tech they work on once purchased.  Once point value is reached, tech is gained said researchers are lost.  For example.

    As US I want heavy bombers eventually, they are worth 30 research, so on turn 1 I purchase one heavy bomber researcher.  I roll and get a 3.  Now I need 27 more research to get heavy bombers.  On turn 2 I decide I want super subs, and since that tech isn’t as powerful I only need 15 research to get them.  I purchase 2 researchers, both for the subs as I want to sink japan’s navy now.  I roll a 2 for my heavy bomber researcher, leaving 25 left, and then roll a 4 and a 5 for my subs, leaving 6 left and with any luck on turn 3 i’ll get my super subs.

    This will allow you to slowly work at a tech, rush for it, and choose to go for the good but expensive techs, or take an easier, faster, tech, or all of the above.  Now all nations may buy a heavy bomber researcher turn 1, but hey there is nothing wrong with that!



  • @bugoo:

    I have some thoughts on subs/destroyers and there interaction.

    Right now the problem is 1 DD completely counters an unlimited number of subs, esp with the dreaded DD+Plane raid.  But detection roles and the like are a pain.  I have two ideas that may work.

    1 plane per 1 DD can attack subs.

    1 DD may prevent 1 sub from submerging.

    Either one of these I feel will allow subs to be more useful.  The absolute most important thing, however, is that DDs should not be allowed to block sub movement.  Take that single thing away and subs become much, much stronger in the Atlantic.

    As far as tech goes I would propose a point system.  Assign a point value to each tech.  Purchase researchers as normal.  Roll as normal for research, but add up the total rolls and apply them toward the selected tech.  You could assign different researches to different techs, but cannot change the tech they work on once purchased.  Once point value is reached, tech is gained said researchers are lost.  For example.

    As US I want heavy bombers eventually, they are worth 30 research, so on turn 1 I purchase one heavy bomber researcher.  I roll and get a 3.  Now I need 27 more research to get heavy bombers.  On turn 2 I decide I want super subs, and since that tech isn’t as powerful I only need 15 research to get them.  I purchase 2 researchers, both for the subs as I want to sink japan’s navy now.  I roll a 2 for my heavy bomber researcher, leaving 25 left, and then roll a 4 and a 5 for my subs, leaving 6 left and with any luck on turn 3 i’ll get my super subs.

    This will allow you to slowly work at a tech, rush for it, and choose to go for the good but expensive techs, or take an easier, faster, tech, or all of the above.  Now all nations may buy a heavy bomber researcher turn 1, but hey there is nothing wrong with that!

    I like this idea.



  • @bugoo:

    As far as tech goes I would propose a point system.  Assign a point value to each tech.  Purchase researchers as normal.  Roll as normal for research, but add up the total rolls and apply them toward the selected tech.  You could assign different researches to different techs, but cannot change the tech they work on once purchased.  Once point value is reached, tech is gained said researchers are lost.  For example.

    As US I want heavy bombers eventually, they are worth 30 research, so on turn 1 I purchase one heavy bomber researcher.  I roll and get a 3.  Now I need 27 more research to get heavy bombers.  On turn 2 I decide I want super subs, and since that tech isn’t as powerful I only need 15 research to get them.  I purchase 2 researchers, both for the subs as I want to sink japan’s navy now.  I roll a 2 for my heavy bomber researcher, leaving 25 left, and then roll a 4 and a 5 for my subs, leaving 6 left and with any luck on turn 3 i’ll get my super subs.

    This will allow you to slowly work at a tech, rush for it, and choose to go for the good but expensive techs, or take an easier, faster, tech, or all of the above.  Now all nations may buy a heavy bomber researcher turn 1, but hey there is nothing wrong with that!

    Hello.  I am digging up this as the tech lovers/haters discussions have started to heat up.

    I re-read your thoughts and am wondering if you ever did anything more with this idea of a tech pointing system.  Did you ever come up with point targets for each tech?

    The neat thing about this is that it can be easily tweaked with out re-writing the whole process.

    Or you could go one step further and adjust the targets by country too.  For example, make super subs very low (read affordable) for Russian super subs or something like that, or even harder for the wealthy countries (like extra points for USA for Long Range)


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