G1 naval build?



  • Is it advisable ?

    I mean, if you do nothing then your transport and cruiser are toast. By default.

    Is the investment for protecting and enlarging your navy worth it, opposed to the lack of ground units?
    It will effectively set you back 1 round against the russians, but is that such a bad thing?

    Your thoughts?

    I think it could work. You could buy an AC, and enforce it with one or two already owned fighters. If UK then attacks, seems unlikely. And you would still have 17 IPC, enough for 5 inf, or 3 inf and 2 art.

    And you will be needing at least sóme inf against russia aswell either way. So not much loss there. Heck, you could also look for a AC and Bomber? Very powerful against Rus combined with some inf. You can strafe big time, he cant.

    Karelia wont fall on G2 prolly, but if its defended by british fighters by G2, it would be very unwise to do either way.
    Just take Kar on G3, or something else. IMO you would still have enough to at least delay Rus from advancing too far, but in the meantime, you wont have to bother about UK (a medium decent german fleet and italian fleet plus some Luftwaffe, would be enough to delay them).

    Or AC plus fighter, so that you can use one fighter in G1, and still have 2 at your AC at the end of G1.

    I think there are quite some possibilities there?

    Japan can grow in force, be a nuisance to USA.

    …Edit± Sorr for the incoherent post, but my has a few key´s broken down, so Im thinking more about evading certain keys, then actually paying attention to what I type…


  • 2019 2015 '14

    I think if you buy a carrier in the first round, it will be dead before it does you any good.

    An extra destroyer is maybe doable, if you’re just trying to deter a round one air strike by the UK. You might even be able to sneak in a second cruiser instead of a destroyer, but whether that’s advisable or not I couldn’t really say. I certainly wouldn’t waste the money on Subs though, thats for sure. Carriers are still expensive even at 14 ipcs, and once you buy it you then have to protect it with fighters, which locks you into a much more defensive posture. I’m sure it would deter the British from attacking you, but at what cost to the overall war effort?

    If I was going to make a commitment like that, I would try to factor in a second or third transport, so you can at least threaten UK with invasion. The people in my playgroup will usually just trade aircraft for ships in rounds 2 or 3 regardless, so it tends to be a losing proposition for G. Add to that the fact that if Germany buys ships, you’re basically calling down on yourself the mother of all KGF strats, so I’m not sure what the benefit would be. If they wanted Germany to buy ships in this game they should have done more to bolster the Baltic fleet, added convoy zones, or subs that do economic damage. The way its set up right now, I can’t imagine why anyone would try for it. Germany is never going to win the Battle of Jutland in this game, let alone the battle of the Atlantic, so what would be the point?

    Sorry for the pessimism, but I’m still irked that Germany wasn’t given a battleship in sz 5. If it was a battleship instead of a cruiser then at least they’d have a chance against the Royal Air Force.

    :?



  • I built a fleet the first turn.  You’ll need infantry so I bought some, but I also bought a destroyer and sub too irrc.

    The real English threat is from their airforce, in G1 you should be trying to wipe all the english navy out of the seas (except for the annoying battleship off Iceland) .  Then if you attack your fleet with just their airforce it’s like giftwrapping Karelia.

    I need to play the game more, but that’s my opinion on it.

    You need to take out the Battleship in the north sea and the fleet off Gibraltar.  Then leave your fleet in the Baltic, only move it out for soaks for your airforce to attack them if they step closer.



  • Building German fleet on G1… it depends what do you want it for?
    I wouldn’t do it… British will toast it sooner or later (they have to toast it, while Germans have to attack Russia, hence, they have too build land units)

    side note: you know what naval unit does Germany needs?
    pocket-battleships! (like the Graff Spee class)

    attacks and defends like a cruiser but can take two hits… cost like Cruisers with improved ship-yards



  • @Alair:

    in G1 you should be trying to wipe all the english navy out of the seas (except for the annoying battleship off Iceland) .

    can’t you take that one with a bomber, a fighter (land in Norway), and a couple of subs? (not sure about the fighter)



  • @Gallo:

    @Alair:

    in G1 you should be trying to wipe all the english navy out of the seas (except for the annoying battleship off Iceland) .

    can’t you take that one with a bomber, a fighter (land in Norway), and a couple of subs? (not sure about the fighter)

    You could, but it would be very risky.  You’ll need to wipe out the British fleet off Gibraltar or England will destroy the Italian fleet with the Bomber on England.

    You also need to get rid of the destroyer right beside the Baltic… oh and at the same time, anything that moves out of the Baltic… well consider it dead.

    It’s possible, but you’ll incurr too many casualties.  I just hope that I keep my Baltic fleet and England will stay 3 spaces away (like off Iceland).  Then if they move closer, move in with my fleet to crush them with my airforce.  If England wants to win the fleet battle, they will, it’s about how much production they have to devote to do it … and how much they can get you to sink into trying to win it.

    For this reason I don’t buy an aircraft carrier and just a destroyer (defend against subs) and a sub for a soak.  That way if they attack with all airforce it will bankrupt them, and if their fleet moves to attack I get first shot since they’ll be the first person to move within 2 spaces away.



  • I find killing the BB is very easy,you should have the sub for fodder, and a bomber and a fighter,normally it is dead off the bat.



  • You do?

    Hum, if I recall, you start with 2 subs off france, plus a cruiser and sub in the baltic.  For airforce you have 3 fighters and 1 bomber.

    I would consider it necessary to destroy the destroyer in the north sea, and the cruiser and destroyer off Gibraltor.

    I usually try to keep my cruiser and sub, so keep them in the Baltic.

    That leaves 2 subs for soaks.

    What I generally do is attack the cruiser and destroyer with 1 sub, 1 fighter and the bomber.  If you use the bomber for the BB, only 1 sub and 1 fighter can reach against the cruiser and destroyer, which is bad odds.  This is a key battle too, because if you lose you put the Italian fleet in jeopardy.

    I then use 1 fighter and 1 sub against the destroyer, maybe 2.

    If playing against you I held onto either the destroyer or cruiser off Gibraltar (you’re attacking at even odds so there’s a good chance) I’d throw what’s left with the bomber in England, plus the fighter on Egypt against the Italian fleet… even at bad odds.  It might be bad odds, but bad odds to get the Axis off Africa is worth it.

    If you moved your fleet out of the Batlic, I’d attack what you have with all my airforce instead.  If Germany loses that fleet, it’s a lot harder to get a G2 Karelia.

    Then again, it would depend on dice rolling and how things played out, but it’s not my style.



  • I have built a carrier in a couple of games and won with that buy, though whether I won despite of it or not is up to debate.

    The positive results are that it forces the UK to build an even bigger navy and airforce than it otherwise would, and delays any intentions the UK has on North Africa, which discourages a KIF strat significantly.

    Also, when it comes time to sac the German navy against the UK navy, in say rd 3, the UK will be hard pressed to rebuild it yet again (assuming Germany still has planes) given that while UK is rich at the beginning (43) it loses money fast (with NOs, UK is having an even harder time, because their NOs are the hardest to achieve).

    Fewer units against Russia is the obvious downside. Perhaps fatal. Japan must be very fast.



  • Actually the only fighter that cannot hit the destroyer/cruiser is the one in Poland, the others just have to land in Algeria.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I cannot speak for everyone, but generally speaking, no matter what game I am playing, if I can take out a battleship or carrier it’s a plus.  I say generally, because sometimes you can do it, you just can’t afford it.

    In this case, we’re talking round 1.  If you can get that BB for minimal costs, you may as well go for it.  Much easier to sink a destroyer a few rounds down the line than it is to sink a battleship.

    Just my opinion though.



  • I don’t see the value of taking out that CA and DD of the coast of Gibralter. I mean sure the UK can attack the Italian navy but with what?

    It would be a DD (2), CA (3) and a bmb (4) against 2 CA’s (3) and 1 2-hit BB (4). That’s very bad odds for the british and you can’t build a decent fleet in a SZ two spaces of SZ 5 (the UK sweet spot for her fleet) because you miss the DD and CA.

    Note: I always attack Egypt on G1, just to kill that fighter.



  • Sorry for asking but doesn’t Italy plays before UK, at least that’s what I remember from reading the rules for 41, so why can’t the Italians sink the brithish fleet at gibraltar?



  • probably because it wouldn’t be very wise for the italian player to move their fleet away from the cover of the mediterranean



  • @Ranor:

    Sorry for asking but doesn’t Italy plays before UK, at least that’s what I remember from reading the rules for 41, so why can’t the Italians sink the brithish fleet at gibraltar?

    Germany->Russia->Japan->UK->Italy->China/USA



  • OK thx I must have been mistaken.



  • I used to be a fan of the G1 carrier build, but have kind of gotten away from it.  You’re right; it will help to delay an ally landing, but will also slow your advance to Moscow.  You’ll need to keep dumping IPC’s into the fleet to keep pace with the British.

    What about a bomber build on each turn?  By the time UK is ready to land, hit em with the entire squadron.  Yeah, you lose over half your airforce, but now you’ve taken UK back to square one.  All the time prior though, you’ve gotten the use of your bombers for support into the east.

    Bombers are only 12 IPC’s now, leaving plenty for precious German armor.  If you spent a couple of bucks on techs somewhere along the way, all the better.  Maybe you even get lucky with Heavy Bombers or Paratroopers!  Or, any surviving bombers can hit UK industry.



  • If the Italian fleet is off the coast of Egypt the UKs CA and DD cannot attack it anyway. I like to use the German transport to take out Jordan on G1. Then I1 use all resources to hit Egypt. You get 3 bombardments, likely hitting 2. If they miss you are in trouble though. It’s a risk I take because you get the 3 bombardments instead of a G1 attack on Egypt.



  • I could try a submarine for making dead zones, but a AC it’s too much. Reduces you to 5 land units.



  • @Flying:

    If the Italian fleet is off the coast of Egypt the UKs CA and DD cannot attack it anyway. I like to use the German transport to take out Jordan on G1. Then I1 use all resources to hit Egypt. You get 3 bombardments, likely hitting 2. If they miss you are in trouble though. It’s a risk I take because you get the 3 bombardments instead of a G1 attack on Egypt.

    You only get 2 bombardments, you can’t have more bombardments than landing units and since there is only 1 Italian transport that leaves you with at most 2 shots.



  • @AdamD021:

    @Flying:

    If the Italian fleet is off the coast of Egypt the UKs CA and DD cannot attack it anyway. I like to use the German transport to take out Jordan on G1. Then I1 use all resources to hit Egypt. You get 3 bombardments, likely hitting 2. If they miss you are in trouble though. It’s a risk I take because you get the 3 bombardments instead of a G1 attack on Egypt.

    You only get 2 bombardments, you can’t have more bombardments than landing units and since there is only 1 Italian transport that leaves you with at most 2 shots.

    Does this include the 2 infantry from Libya? Honestly I’m not sure now. I figure if you are commiting 3 infantry, 1 tank and 1 fighter that includes 5 units then you can bombard with 3 ships.



  • From what I understand it only means units coming via transports



  • @Alair:

    You do?

    Hum, if I recall, you start with 2 subs off france, plus a cruiser and sub in the baltic.  For airforce you have 3 fighters and 1 bomber.

    Then again, it would depend on dice rolling and how things played out, but it’s not my style.

    Four fighters and one bomber.  What I wanted to try next time is sending the two subs + 1 fighter(norway) to take out the battle ship + transport in sz 2 send the fighter from poland plus sub from SZ 5 against the destroyer in sz 6 and take your two remaining fighters and bomber send them vs the Cruiser and Destroyer in SZ 12.

    Then again we have been playing without NO’s so Germany really needs to buy some time against the Brits.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Okay, with more experience now, if, and that’s a HUGE IF, you decide to build navy on Germany 1, as if someone had a gun to my head and threatened to kill me and I balanced the loss of position on the board to be worth my life, here’s what I would say to build:

    31 IPC to spend on Round 1:

    2 Aircraft Carriers >> 28 IPC
    +4 Already Owned Fighters

    This is the only way you’re going to have enough firepower to make that transport last for a few rounds, IMHO.  Otherwise, England and America are going to have enough bombers by round 2 to sink whatever you have in SZ 5.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Thats overboard for Germany. 2 carriers?  I think you will lose if you buy 2 carriers on the first turn, because your not getting the jump on the Soviet-German equation and allowing the Soviets the lead in maintaining the balance of power, because now they will build lots of tanks to go with 39 infantry and Germany does not face a weak Soviet player who cant fight back…. all because adolf went carrier crazy.


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