Can subs attack subs?



  • sounds very weird, but i’m doubting
    if german sub in 1941 gets out of baltic, kills english destroyer and survives, can USSR sub atatck that sub?
    i think it’s logically yes, but apperently there are soem new sub rules bout submerging
    So can anybody help me out?  😄



  • yeah, a sub can attack another sub. the attacking sub still gets it ‘first strike’ ability, if i remember correctly. but the defending sub can then submerge if it misses



  • The defending sub can also fire back (even if it gets hit as a casualty), but it’s only firing back at a ‘1’, so it’s probably better to submerge after the enemy takes a shot at you.


  • Official Answers

    The decision of whether or not to submerge is made both sides before any shots are fired, with the attacker deciding first, so a sub can only attack another sub if the defender chooses to fight (or if there’s an attacking destroyer). This will be in the FAQ.



  • @Krieghund:

    This will be in the FAQ.

    How many years did you playtest this game ?



  • Sounds like youll want your answer in dog years 😉



  • @Krieghund:

    The decision of whether or not to submerge is made both sides before any shots are fired, with the attacker deciding first, so a sub can only attack another sub if the defender chooses to fight (or if there’s an attacking destroyer). This will be in the FAQ.

    That’s not the way the rule is written. According to the manual, page 30

    “Anytime a submarine would otherwise roll the die to attack or defend, it can submerge instead.”

    Thus a sub attacked by another sub cannot submerge until after fired upon. A defending sub doesn’t roll until after the attacker does. Unless the manual is flat wrong. The manual mentions an exception for aircraft, but not enemy subs.



  • However, it also states that both an attacking and defending sub “are considered to fire at the same time” (But since that will mess up your dice table when 2 players roll simultanously, they roll after eachother), so that should mean that a defending sub can submerge right away.


  • Official Answers

    Attacking and defending fire is considered to be effectively simultaneous, as Woodstock points out.  However, as a matter of practicality someone has to go first, as explained on page 18.  This expressed simultaneity also applies to submerging versus firing for subs.  The wording of the submerging rules obscures this issue, so it was clarified in the following FAQ entry:

    Q. Exactly when is the decision made whether or not to submerge submarines?
    A. The decision whether to submerge submarines is made before any dice are rolled by either side in an exchange of fire. The attacker decides before the defender does.



  • Yep. The very rulebook is pretty clear. A new shiny improve of sub mechanics. I only noticed after the 1st game, and let subs sneak and ignore fleets if no dd are there. Excellent!  🙂

    Seems they used all the good ideas with subs and no more good ideas were left when they designed China popcorn status and the whole China rules 😛  :lol:



  • @Krieghund:

    Attacking and defending fire is considered to be effectively simultaneous, as Woodstock points out.  However, as a matter of practicality someone has to go first, as explained on page 18.  This expressed simultaneity also applies to submerging versus firing for subs.  The wording of the submerging rules obscures this issue, so it was clarified in the following FAQ entry:

    Q. Exactly when is the decision made whether or not to submerge submarines?
    A. The decision whether to submerge submarines is made before any dice are rolled by either side in an exchange of fire. The attacker decides before the defender does.

    Does this mean that sub-stalling is in, if an attacking submarine can submerge before fighting?  Obviously only if a destroy is absent.



  • @Rakeman:

    @Krieghund:

    Attacking and defending fire is considered to be effectively simultaneous, as Woodstock points out.  However, as a matter of practicality someone has to go first, as explained on page 18.  This expressed simultaneity also applies to submerging versus firing for subs.  The wording of the submerging rules obscures this issue, so it was clarified in the following FAQ entry:

    Q. Exactly when is the decision made whether or not to submerge submarines?
    A. The decision whether to submerge submarines is made before any dice are rolled by either side in an exchange of fire. The attacker decides before the defender does.

    Does this mean that sub-stalling is in, if an attacking submarine can submerge before fighting?  Obviously only if a destroy is absent.

    But subs, as TRNs, can not stall because they may be ignored by other surface ships that may treat the sea zone with subs within as friendly or am I wrong?

    New sub rules are really interesting!


  • Official Answers

    @Romulus:

    But subs, as TRNs, can not stall because they may be ignored by other surface ships that may treat the sea zone with subs within as friendly or am I wrong?

    You’re not wrong.


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