Which is worse for Japan…



  • …a Us IC in Sinkiang, or a Uk IC in India?



  • @Cobert:

    …a Us IC in Sinkiang, or a Uk IC in India?

    If it’s either/or, I think each of those choices is GOOD for Japan.



  • I tend to agree.  An IC in India or Sinkiang only slows Japan down.  By J3 or J4, Japanese forces will overwhelm either IC.  However, if building an IC in India and Sinkiang is part of an Allied KJF, then it may be that Japan is overwhelmed before it can get established.  Then, the only hope for the Axis is a strong Germany.

    SS


  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    Those choices are both good for Japan. One less IC they need to build for themselves. The Allies in question have to sink cash into defending the ICs instead of killing Germany.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I think any ICs build by the allies is good for Japan.

    Better would be to take Borneo and New Guinea, put an IC in Australia or Egypt.  If you HAVE to build one.



  • Well lets just say on J1 China isnt held, and Im thinkg about moving everything back into Sinkiang (save one infantry blocker) and building and IC there, and the Japanese will probably build an IC in French Indochina, and Im thinking about just placing some infantry on India every turn to match up with them so they wont have any overwhelming force.  Pretty much, Im considering holding off the Japs until the US player can finish off the Japanese navy and pick off islands, and im just thinking which IC could do better.  Asian IC’s seem to just be a bad choice early, but the japanese mainland is weak right now and they dont have many transports.


  • 2007 AAR League

    It’s not possible to not move anything out of China.  The US goes “after” Japan, don’t forget, so no matter what you face, the minimum will always be 2 inf and 1 ftr.  Think about it. 8-)



  • Generally, if you just build ONE industrial complex, the Japanese take it with transported infantry and mass air.  It takes a little while, but it is very difficult to stop.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @General_D.Fox:

    It’s not possible to not move anything out of China.  The US goes “after” Japan, don’t forget, so no matter what you face, the minimum will always be 2 inf and 1 ftr.  Think about it. 8-)

    He was saying if, by some miracle, Japan does not take China on J1.  Maybe they took India and her IC and Buryatia to remove British and Russian influence in the region?



  • @Jennifer:

    @General_D.Fox:

    It’s not possible to not move anything out of China.  The US goes “after” Japan, don’t forget, so no matter what you face, the minimum will always be 2 inf and 1 ftr.  Think about it. 8-)

    He was saying if, by some miracle, Japan does not take China on J1.  Maybe they took India and her IC and Buryatia to remove British and Russian influence in the region?

    Who was saying that?  I was under the impression that General D. Fox mentioned that because it is anticipated that Japan WOULD attack China.



  • No, this is really a game, and they didnt have enough attack power towards China and failed miserably and didnt even dent it.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Who was this because Japan should be able to overpower a single IC unless there is large Russian support



  • Worst case for Japan is NO IC’s by the Allies… then they have to build all of their own 😛
    Best case (IMHO) is ONE IC in India (easiest to take for Japan since all of their naval power can be brought to bear, pending US moves, also)

    TWO Allied IC’s (India and Sinkiang) CAN slow Japan down.  But a well played Japan will crack both in a few rounds, meanwhile the Allies are spending a lot of money in Asia, slowing their Germany offensives, and once both of those IC’s fall (and they will) Russia is FRACKED against Japan.



  • I get the feeling this person wont run a ‘well played’ japan if they somehow managed to NOT take China on J1.  It wasnt even bad dice, it was just horrible planning.

    This guy isnt even new to the game, hes played it a couple of times, hes just new to japan.

    If no IC’s are better, then how can I quickly kill off Japan, orat least contain them to their home island so I can steal their VC’s?

    This is turning into a ‘KJF quick’ thread.



  • zomg, Japan didn’t take China on J1?

    “This guy isnt even new to the game, hes played it a couple of times, hes just new to japan.”

    Naw.  If you’re new to playing ANY country, you’re new to the game.

    You can’t kill off Japan quickly unless some of its navy and/or air are dead.



  • Jen has posted some high-risk strats for taking Japan income in some of hte KJF threads, you may want to check those out.

    As I recall, she advocates skipping Round 1 IC’s as the Allies and instead Round 2 or 3 IC’s in places like East Indies and/or Borneo. 🙂



  • Thats what I was thinking, an IC in Borneo as UK throwing out a navy and then later some land units to shuttle around. In another game Ive played I did this and it worked prety well, it was well defended from Japanese assault and I built a massive airforce that wiped out the Japanese navy early on.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    The nice thing about Borneo/East Indies or even Philippine Island ICs is that it’s exponentially harder to take them.  You can’t just mass 40 tanks and 80 infantry, you have to actually sink the fleet defending the island, build a fleet and invade the island.



  • O rjust isloate them and wait for Germany to take Moscow and London 😄



  • Yes, and if Japan takes them back, it doesnt really help them out as much as an Allies Asain mainland IC would do under Japanese capture.


  • 2007 AAR League

    If you manage to surround the island with the IC with a sizable fleet it will be almost useless since you can only build 3 or 4 units per turn meaning it would take u a while to even put it to use



  • @ajgundam5:

    If you manage to surround the island with the IC with a sizable fleet it will be almost useless since you can only build 3 or 4 units per turn meaning it would take u a while to even put it to use

    I don’t get what you’re talking about.

    If the US built an IC on an island that it couldn’t hold, and Japan surrounded that IC with a fleet, the US was dumb for putting that IC there in the first place.  So it shouldn’t happen.

    If the US built an IC on an island and put a US fleet there, that 3-4 IPC factory is very useful, because you can produce 3-4 (usually 4) units there every turn.  Initially, you can produce fighters to help in the early naval domination, then you can switch to infantry and tank production to help US transports take over India.  It is FAR cheaper to build an industrial complex that produces 4 units a turn than it is to build four transports (2 transports to move units from W. US to Solomon, 2 transports to move units from Solomon to E. Indies).



  • The problem with the economic analysis above is that it ignores the cost required to obtain one of those properties to build on in the first place.

    For the US to take Borneo or East Indies (the only 2 islands with 4 IPC values) requires a significant advance investment by the United States JUST to get there.

    The FASTEST the US can get to Borneo or EI is US3.  And that would only be possible with the initial BB/TRN off Western (assuming Pearl occured).  It also assumes that the US did not have to do a Pearl Counter, and that at no time in J2 or J3 did Japan engage the lone BB and TRN sailing from Los Angeles.

    More likely would be a Turn 4 or Turn 5 US landing on Borneo or EI, allowing at least 1 round to build up some fleet for the journey, and a round to do the Pearl Counter.

    So in USA4, the US lands in Borneo or East Indies, after spending at least their US1 build on fleet to get there. 
    On USA5, you can finally BUILD that IC.
    On USA6, you can produce your first units there.

    SIX TURNS (MINIMUM) to get that IC established and operational.

    Now what pray tell has Japan been doing for those 6 turns that they allowed a small US fleet to move 3 turns across the Pacific, take a major island, build a factory, and strart producing there?  Didn;t they bother grouping their 2 BB’s, 1-2 AC’s and some FIG’s to be able to strike that fleet somewhere along the way… oh say off Solomons?  Or killing the US fleet once it arrives in SZ48 which is within range of land based FIGs and the BOM?

    And then there is the issue that, about the time the US is trying to slip into Borneo or East Indies, Japan was probably already gearig up for their Australia/New Zeland operations, meaning that at least a portion of Japan’s fleet, as well as invasion forces, are already in the area to either block the US invasions, or to just re-take either of them if the US were to gain them.

    The Birts can pull off an early seizure of one of thsoe Islands if everything goes right in UK1 & 2, but they don’t have the income to maintain their German offensive AND build fleet and air in the Pacific.  The US has the money to build there, but takes too long to arrive.

    You might as well also write about the Russian’s building an IC in Manchuria on R3…  :mrgreen:


  • 2007 AAR League

    In my game against Frimmel & Jennifer I tried a new strategy I like to call AJF (Annoy Japan First).  For the 1st 6 rounds the US spent half their income building a Pacific Fleet and the other half setting up a transport train from E. Canada>Norway.  On US9 the pacific fleet captured E. Indies and built an IC on US10 protected by UK/US ground forces (4tnk, 6inf, bmb) and a combined US/UK fleet of 5fgt, 3CV, 3BB, 4DD, 7SS, 5TP vs. Japans fleet of 6fgt, 3CV, 3BB, 3DD, 7SS, 3TP (plus 3fgt in FIC).  Japan attacked the combined fleet on J11 destroying the fleet with 4fgt, 2CV, 3BB, 1DD remaining.  Even though Japan got great dice (17hits in rd1 with 6/7 subs hitting) she still hasn’t retaken the Island.  We are on round 20 that’s 11 rounds the US has collected 4IPC & depriving Japan of that income.  The IC had an unexpected bonus, Japan has to keep her fleet close by because of the possibility that the US might drop 4 ships into that seazone at any time.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    On the flip side, JSP, that IC is ostraiced from the world.  So the arguement against does have some merit.

    Not that it really matters.  America’s been pretty worthless in our game ever since you got destroyed in SZ 37.  England’s been dang powerful though.


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