How does retreating work with an amphibious assault and multi country attack?


  • I have 8 British ground troops in Norway, 4 British transports able to hit Karelia with 8 more British ground troops and two bombers in Russia going through West Russia to Karlelia.  I assume I can retreat into West Russia with the Norway British troops, because the British Bombers came through West Russia, but do the British amphibious assault ground troops need to stay in battle until they are eliminated or can they too retreat into West Russia?  Is there a scenerio where I could retreat the bombers and all 8 British ground troops from Norway into West Russia after the first dice roll, while at the same time keeping the last remaining amphibious assault ground units in combat for the second dice roll, or would having surviving amphibious assault units force all units to stay in combat until the amphibious assault units are dead?

  • Moderator

    #1 you must retreat all Ground Troops if you are Retreating…
    #2 Air can Retreat on “Press Attack or Retreat Step” in Combat without having Ground Forces Retreating…
    and #3 In your Case you may only retreat units to a space where land units started an attack from… So you could only retreat to Norway…

    hope it helps,
    GG


  • I have 8 British ground troops in Norway, 4 British transports able to hit Karelia with 8 more British ground troops and two bombers in Russia going through West Russia to Karlelia.  I assume I can retreat into West Russia with the Norway British troops, because the British Bombers came through West Russia, but do the British amphibious assault ground troops need to stay in battle until they are eliminated or can they too retreat into West Russia?  Is there a scenerio where I could retreat the bombers and all 8 British ground troops from Norway into West Russia after the first dice roll, while at the same time keeping the last remaining amphibious assault ground units in combat for the second dice roll, or would having surviving amphibious assault units force all units to stay in combat until the amphibious assault units are dead?

    Guerilla Guy is dead wrong. You can’t retreat ANY land units if ANY of your land units are part of an amphibious assault. I can’t remember which page of the manual says it, but it is very clearly stated that an amphibious assault makes all land units unretreatable regardless of where they came from. You can still retreat planes, but not land units. Guerilla Guy is right in that you can only retreat to where one of your land units started in, so if you just attacked Karelia with your Norway troops then they could retreat into Norway (planes can retreat anywhere they want really). But the second you include any troops from transports, all land units in that battle cannot be retreated.

  • 2007 AAR League

    Everything that GG says about Air Units is correct AFAIK.

    BUT , remember , if ANY Ground Units entered the contested land area through Amphibious Assault , then ALL Ground Units are prevented from retreating from the combat…They must do or die in the contested area…

    So, no retreat is possible for the British units that came from Norway (in the aforementioned example).

  • Moderator

    Thanks for the correction guys… trihero is right I checked the manual, it is impossible to Retreat any units from a Amphibious Assault even if it is a joint operation… :oops:

    Read Page 16 of the Manual under “Amphibious Assaults” For Clarification…

    GG


  • Hi , thanks alot for everyone’s answers, but I still don’t know what to think.  I think some of these rules were more clearly dealt with in previous a+a incarnations, but not in this version.  I don’t have the rules with me, but the wording of the retreat rule says that all “attacking land units” must retreat into a country that the “attacking units” came from.  The second part of the sentence doesn’t say “attacking land units”, it just says attacking units.  It could be argued that the second part of the sentence is talking about “attacking land units”, since these were what the first part of the sentence was talking about, however, I would argue that since it doesn’t say “attacking land units” in both parts of the sentence, that the second part of the sentence states that all land units must retreat together in any country that any attaxcking unit came from.  It would also require stating that the plane came through that country. 
    Also, is the consensus that only the planes can retreat and then all the land units, amphibious or otherwise, would stay in combat at least until the amphibious assaulters are dead?  I couldn’t find where the rules say this, but sometimes the answer it tucked away in some corner of the rules.
    Lastly, is everyone talking about the rules that come with the game?  And would the answers to these questions be different between the larry harris tournament rules and the game rules?


  • The most commonly accepted rules are the Larry Harris Tournament Rules, and they clarify many of the ambiguities (and outright msitakes) of the rules manual provided with A&A (revised, aka Avalon Hill version).

    There are previous discussions on this board about the screwed up printed manual rules that SPECIFY goofy things like SBR damage being the roll of the dice, or the IPC vale of the territory WHICHEVER IS GREATER.

    On an amphib, unless, you are using a house rule for aerial retreat, then ALL attacking units, regardless of type, remain until combat is completed in the case of an amphib attack.


  • I just looked at the Harris rules, and it does say that the land units cannot retreat into a country that only a plane came from.  However, it also says that the planes can retreat, and all land units stay.  To this point, my group has used the avalon hill game rules to the word, just so we don’t have people constantly wanting to change the rules.  The rules affect everyone equally, so who really cares what they are.  However, if the larry harris rules are more specific about the ambigueities of the game rules, then maybe we’ll have to switch.

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