Need help as Axis in Alpha +3



  • Okay here’s the conundrum. I normally play as Germany and Italy. As Germany I typically start Barbarossa on the 2nd turn. The Russian player pretty much always retreats all forces to Moscow, leaving 1 infantry in all of the Soviet satellites which slows my advance to a crawl as I take his territories 1 by 1. By the time I get to Moscow, he’s sitting on top of 50 or 60 infantry and I pretty much never seem to have the numbers to deal with it. I outproduce him and everything, but it takes too much damn TIME to match him in numbers and by then, the Allies are hitting me in the West and by that point it’s game over for Axis.

    If it helps, I always sink the entire UK fleet in the Atlantic with the exceptions of SZ109, SZ91, and the boats off the Canadian coast. The German air force usually sits in Paris as a watchdog against any UK naval builds after that to keep them off my back, or I’ll occasionally use them to take out some targets in the Mediterranean but that’s the extent of their involvement usually.

    I have even bigger headaches with Italy. The UK player typically brings in the sz 91 cruiser and sz 71 destroyer to back up the starting Mediterranean fleet, as well as the strategic bomber and fighters in Malta and Gibraltar. I also typically lose Tobruk in his opening moves. There is simply too much of a material difference for Italy to overcome the UK in time it seems.

    If it makes a difference, the U.S. player always goes all Pacific.

    So what am I doing wrong?


  • Sponsor

    1. You could try Sealion.
    2. Never let your German AF sit and defend, use it to crush the UK Med fleet or assist in USSR.
    3. If he moves that much from UK into the Med, then the Japanese should go crush India.
    4. Keep German subs active and be sure you own SZ125.

    As a rule, I use every piece, every turn. I am either attacking or setting up for a future attack. Even my pieces defending somewhere are being staged for a future attack. To solely defend is to lose.

    Just some ideas…



  • Here is a sort of printout for a good Germany T1-4 Buy

    T1: 1 carrier 1 destroyer 1 sub (30): this helps to give the sea lion threat, as well as making the UK navy much smaller than yours. Since UK can’t build ships in the 1st turn, because he has to be worried about sea lion, this buy achieves naval superiority. Naval superiority over UK for the first couple turns, in most games, forces US to spend some in the atlantic. This saves Japan from having to face a 72 dollar+ a turn economy.

    T2: 10 infantry 10 artilery (70). This buy sets up the push on russia for a R4 declaration of war, unless Russia makes a mistake.

    T3: 5 art, 5 inf, 4 mech (51). The 10 infantry purchased turn before was placed in Western Germany. These units will be in Germany on the same turn as the 5 inf 5 art are placed there. This means that 20 ground will be in Germany on T3 By T7 these will be on Moscows doorstep.

    T4: 11 mech 1 tank (50) save 1. Germany has 20 artilery at minimun at this point. The mechs are 2 move units as well as being a 2 attack for up to 20 mechs. 2 move units give many possibilities to Germany, as well as Japan. Later these 2 move units can be sent south to take egypt through the oil lands. While these units move south the early infantry and artilery you built can be stationed in the south.

    On T4 when you declare war, or on T3, make the push south with all your forces. stack your whole force, that isn’t in Norway, in eastern poland. This gives the threat of going north and south. Go south with everything in later rounds. The south is worth all the money. lenningrad is a trap for Russia. When Russia tries to hold this city, the south falls everytime for a full out Germany thrust. When the south falls either Germany can just go strait for moscow, or go south on to egypt.



  • @Mountaineer:

    1. You could try Sealion.
    2. Never let your German AF sit and defend, use it to crush the UK Med fleet or assist in USSR.
    3. If he moves that much from UK into the Med, then the Japanese should go crush India.
    4. Keep German subs active and be sure you own SZ125.

    As a rule, I use every piece, every turn. I am either attacking or setting up for a future attack. Even my pieces defending somewhere are being staged for a future attack. To solely defend is to lose.

    Just some ideas…

    Agreed, as a lot of us are discovering now, what Cmdr Jennifer knew all along, a kill Britian first strategy is not only possible in Alpha+3, but usually all that is needed to make the allies surrender.



  • SBR Leningrad if defended
    SBR Moscow soon as you can

    However, kill UK first is probably the best course to an Allied defeat.



  • I have done this. But leaving USSR with 40 for 4 turns is 160 –> 50+ inf.

    Good night.

    I’m with you, I don’t see how the axis overcomes the USSR’s production; we certainly haven’t figured out how to do it yet. Allies win every time.


  • Customizer

    It seems to me there is a big difference in how some people play the USSR.  In our games, whomever plays USSR tends to try and be somewhat more aggressive.  While they do buy infantry, they also get some tanks to back them up and provide some offensive options.  Plus, they really try to hold places like the Ukraine and Leningrad.  They usually end up losing those places but the Germans really have to fight for them and end up losing some of their force in the process.  By the time the Germans reach the territories around Moscow, the Russians won’t have 60+ infantry, more like 20 or so plus a few tanks, and the German force will be somewhat depleted as well, usually consisting of mostly tanks and mechs because most of the infantry and artillery were used up in previous battles.

    It sounds like a lot of you think a better plan for Russia is to almost give up everything else and simply keep stacking men on Moscow.  While I understand that may make it harder for Germany to take the Russian capital, is it really a good thing to give up so much real-estate to Germany?  There’s a fair amount of money in the territories in the south, plus NOs for Leningrad, Stalingrad and the Caucasus.  Isn’t letting Germany get so much richer and stronger a bad thing for the Allies?



  • @knp7765:

    While I understand that may make it harder for Germany to take the Russian capital, is it really a good thing to give up so much real-estate to Germany?  There’s a fair amount of money in the territories in the south, plus NOs for Leningrad, Stalingrad and the Caucasus.  Isn’t letting Germany get so much richer and stronger a bad thing for the Allies?

    Germany taking Moscow is the game, it always has been. Give up territory for time? If it means delaying Germany taking Moscow then yes. As long as you delay it until the USA can save the day then so be it.



  • Thanks for the feedback. Some of the suggestions are… interesting. I was under the impression that taking the UK out of the fight was impossible in A3 because of the new AA gun rules and the fact that the USSR can pounce on you as soon as Londo falls. Is it actually possible to overcome a determined sea lion defense AND hold back the Russians at the same time? That seems like a tall order.

    One strategy I had in mind was the carrier/transport/sub build 1st turn, dumping them into sea zone 112 along with the German battleship and cruiser, and then swinging them South to Gibraltar to help the Italians in Africa since they seem to really need it. Has anyone tried something like this?



  • You need some Italian can-openers to take out those lone blockers and speed things up in Russia.

    Even just a tank, a mech (or 2, mainly as casualty) plus a tactical bomber can go a long way.



  • With Germany spending 50+ dollars a turn in trying to take out Russia, I don’t see how Russia is so hard for everyone to beat? Unless US spends a lot of money in the atlantic, even not taking out UK London, Germany can put 100% of its money against Russia.



  • I wrote this a few months back. I’ll dust it off. Please try it and report back.

    1. First purchase is a Carrier and 2 Transports. For me, this has next to nothing to do with Sealion, and everything to do with versatility/flexibility/ability to seize and hold the initiative. This purchase forces Britain to spend all IPCs in London, getting them off to a slower start in Africa vs. Italy. A few pieces in Africa can mean everything. Secondly, the Carrier gives you an immediate lockdown fleet when combined with your airbase in West Germany. You now have a foundation for a long-term shield against Britain and the US.

    2. Neutral choices: Step into Finland with 3 Infantry, Step into Bulgaria with 2 Infantry, and crush Yugoslavia with 8 Infantry, 2 Artillery, and 3 Armor. The rest of your mobile forces hit France G1. This sets you up for Greece on G2 quite nicely. It also buys you the max free Infantry you can get on G1… yeah, it’s nice for Italy to have some free Infantry + economy, but I prefer (personally) to have the bulk of the forces go to one major power… on offense a single power is best to have a majority… on defense, multinational is just fine. The Axis is all about offense, or the game is already over.

    3. Starting on the 1st turn, begin moving units into Norway with the single Transport you have… on G2 land 6 more with the 3 Transports you now have. On G3 land 6 more… you get the idea. Move your Infantry and Artillery only… mobile forces have a different purpose. The Allied player who had to prepare for a potential Sealion is now watching as a heavy dose of Infantry and Artillery begins pooling in Finland.

    4. Purchases on G2, G3, G4 etc. should reflect your purpose - to overwhelm and crush Russia. This isn’t done with expensive units, but with Infantry, Artillery, Armor, and Mech Infantry, Air, and Navy… in descending order of amount purchased. For example, if I have 60 IPCs with Germany, you’ll see 10 Infantry, an Artillery, an Armor, a Mech Infantry, a Fighter, and a Sub. Sometimes the Sub will be an extra Armor, or the Mech an extra Artillery, or vice versa. Have patience with your purchases - resist the urge to stray and buy bombers or battleships or other nonsense. The payoff will come… Russia can’t compete with the unending brutality of waves of Infantry, backed by superior (and growing) armor and air. As the turns move forward, slowly choke back on the Infantry, and add more mobile forces through the midgame turns… the front has moved, and you have to maintain the ability to move with it. Still, I’d personally have a hard time ever buying less than 6-8 Infantry in a turn, no matter what. Beware the desire to spend a round buying all mobile forces. Never run out of a continuous flow of Infantry!

    5. Begin to defend your coast before the Allied navies claim Gibraltar/North Africa, which they will. I begin placing 1 or 2 Infantry a round in Normandy on G3, and I make a commitment that doesn’t stop until I get to 10-12 Infantry. Combined with the threat of the Luftwaffe, it forms a formidable defense and can counter any attack made on Southern France. I move 4 of my AA guns to the coastline to give a headstart on holding my flank, as when the US shows up it will be with a healthy dose of airpower. The Allied player will quickly look for other places to go.

    6. So now you have a self-sustaining Kriegsmarine staged in SZ112(adding a unit per turn), with an airbase backing it up (and adding a fighter per turn). You’re preparing to defend your coastline in Normandy. This is your Spiked Shield. This shield can be used to harass the UK all you want, but remember that it’s purpose is defending your Western flank.

    7. Let’s talk about the Armored Fist. You’ve been landing 6 units per turn in Norway on G2 and G3, you landed 2 on G1 and had 7 Infantry in Finland on G1… you’re now looking at forces in the north of 21(!) land units to begin G4… not bad. 15 of these are prepared to assault on G4. Every other land unit not playing defense in Normandy can now be used on the front with Russia. On G4 not only will you have a huge force of Infantry/Artillery preparing to take the Karelia/Vyborg region, you’ll also have plenty of Infantry massed along the Polish/Hungarian/Romanian border, and more importantly, your mechanized forces will be prepared to apply pressure wherever you choose, based on how the Russian player has chosen to array their forces. My favorite is a pincer - the northern forces hit Karelia or Vyborg (or both), and my mobile forces (now numbering approximately 10-12 Armor and 5-6 Mech) move with accompanying Infantry/Artillery into the Baltic States. The nail in the coffin is the original 3 Transports… they bring a combo of 6 Infantry/Artillery any place you need - Vyborg, Novgorod, or the Baltic States - any combo you choose, or all to one of them if needed. My guess is that based on the way the Russian player sees you stage on G3, they’ll be in no mood to contest Novgorod… how could they?

    8. Contingency plans - let’s say the Russian player sells out completely to save Novgorod… well, now your mobile forces (16-18 units and counting!) make a mess of the Ukraine area. With the pressure of Infantry, Artillery, Mobile forces, and a large Luftwaffe, Russia is forced to choose to lose one IC or the other. Because the Ukraine opens up Stalingrad and the Caucasus region, a smart Russian player will choose the lesser of the two evils and will heavily defend the South and let the North go.

    9. I can’t say this enough - when your German economy gets to 55-60, do yourself a favor and make a commitment to 10 Infantry a round in the later stages (G7 and later). Otherwise, you’ll find yourself in a state of Infantry exhaustion. When that happens, you begin to lose the initiative. A bad idea. Keep the boots marching to the front.

    10. A helpful hint - Fighters are best in the West, and Tactical Bombers are best in the East. Fighters are a good defense for your Spiked Shield, and Tac Bombers pair wonderfully with Armor for added offensive punch.

    11. A quick note on Italy. As a general rule, small amounts of Italian forces (1-2 units of any type also continuously moving toward the front) can punch holes in Russia’s front. Large German forces reinforce the territory, including air power if you choose. This accomplishes three vital things: 1. It preserves precious Italian units - they continuously get reinforced by large German stacks. 2. It slowly increases Italy’s economy - the land they gain is held, bit by bit. 3. It preserves Germany’s Infantry - even though they get less of a share of economy on the front, they lose less Infantry in a trade war with Russia. By the time you get close to Moscow, if you’ve attacked and reinforced skillfully, you might find that most German Infantry you started with still exist - this is the counter to your concern that Russia has a large stack… because so do you.

    12. A quick note on Japan. Declare war on Russia on J1, and use minimal forces to take Soviet Far East, Siberia, and Sakha. It doesn’t seem like much, but over time it is a slow drain on Russia and a small bump in economy for japan. Mostly you do it to give a small dose of help to Germany and Italy. If Russia uses their far eastern forces to deal with you - all the better. You’ve just slowed them down from making it back to help defend Moscow. You win either way.

    Note that this is not a quick knockout method. This is designed to slowly strangle Russia’s economy, and show up on their doorstep with enough forces to finish the job. Expect Moscow to fall somewhere in turns 11-14… take your time and enjoy the ride. Germany is an absolute beast if you rely on basics.

    Be extra happy if your Russian opponent buys aircraft - they’ll wish they hadn’t. Against masses of land forces, they become expensive casualties only.

    Have fun!



  • Very nice post Stalingradski.  Several times I’ve seen Germany attempt the hurried blitz tactic, in an attempt to take Moscow on G6/G7 with hordes of expensive Mechs/Tanks, only for the attack to fail, leading to a quick game-over.



  • One thing I have tried with success against skilled veteren players is to throw everything Germany can muster for the first 3 rounds. Basically take out France, and UK ships in 110,111,112, and 106 attacking 112 with 124 sub. Move all 3 inf into finland and a tank into romania. Buy all tanks and mech rounds 1 and 2. Protect your fleet with 3 fighters. Move all other units to the Russian border

    You can still threaten sealion with this purchase, buying all fleet G2 if the UK doesnt put any extra land forces in the UK, but it should be obvious to all what your intentions are. G2 invade Russia, E Poland to be exact, with 26 inf, 5 art, and 3 tanks. Russia will be unabe to counter. Move your France/Germany tanks/mech into Yugo along with Bulgarian inf.

    G3, on to Belarus or W Ukraine, moving Yugo/Germany tanks/mech into E Poland. Either buy 4 tacs for Moscow or ground for defence.

    G4, move beside Moscow. There should be nothing in your way as you now have 26 inf, 5 art, 16 mech and 17 tanks depending on purchases and losses. In addition you should have 5 fighters, 9 tacs, and 2 bombers in range of Moscow less losses and/or if you were forced to build a defence in the west G3. If possible, build more bombers G4 for the next turn.

    G5, Attack. Germany might lose some tanks in the battle depending how aggresive they were. I have taken Moscow without losing any before.  Now you are making 60+ a turn and dont have 2 fronts to worry about. However, the US and UK will be on you quickly. Try to keep the US out of the war till T4.

    This may not work every time, but I have found it quite effective. Others might not, but I think Moscow in german hands on round 5 is very possible if not inevitable if you follow this. Question is can you hold off in the west while you do this. Also, if you dont take Moscow G5 you will be finished, but do the numbers or play it out and judge for yourself.



  • Russian defense would be 67 infantry, 6 art, 2 mech, 2 tanks (at least) 2 fighters, 1 tac, 4 aa guns

    This is on T5



  • -Send the French fighter, along with as many British fighters as can make it, to Moscow via Nenetsia/Persia.
    -Watch Germany crash against Moscow.



  • Why does everyone think Germany needs to crash against russia until Germany is ready? Wait until Germany has overwhelming advantage. Then attack moscow or just go south with your two move units and keep russia making around 18 dollars. Take all of africa with 30+ units. 15 tanks 15 mechs if possible. This really depends on what America decides to invest into the atlantic.



  • @theROCmonster:

    Why does everyone think Germany needs to crash against russia until Germany is ready? Wait until Germany has overwhelming advantage. Then attack moscow or just go south with your two move units and keep russia making around 18 dollars. Take all of africa with 30+ units. 15 tanks 15 mechs if possible. This really depends on what America decides to invest into the atlantic.

    I think the phrase “take all of Africa with 30+ units” deserves more than 1 paragraph. Have you ever accomplished this with Germany?



  • Yes, unless Japan is crippled and hasn’t done much to UK India, I see Germany being able to do this nearly every game. Again this is determined on how much investment America puts into the atlantic. 30 units with some air power, should be more than enough to at least take egypt and then after taking egypt Germany can push south and take the rest of Africa. I don’t like the idea of Italy taking Africa from the sole standpoint that italy would need to invest in multiple transports and surface ships, maybe just 1 carrier, but that makes Italy’s homeland really weak. US can then invest into taking Italy out and then threaten Germany from the south. Germany needs to spend 100% of her income after the first 1-2 turns on the Russian campaign. In every game I’ve played I’ve had a stack of 30-50 infantry for Italy in and around southern/northern italy, or whereever else needed to combat the allied threat.



  • Sealion on G3
    SBR the Naval Base on I3, disabling it for allied use until they liberate London.

    Problem solved for US being able to put in a rotation of Trn moving units across the Atlantic.  They can get there quickly, but take forever getting back to fill up with more units.  US isn’t going to have enough units to take and hold anywhere in Europe on its first landing. Factor in some blocking and you can delay the arrival of US units by at least a turn, possibly 2 giving German Controlled London time to mass up some Inf.

    This is why Italy needs to ignore N.Africa.  Once you allow the US to get an IC anywhere in Europe, the tides change for the Axis.

    You don’t play turtle with Italy, you just choose to ignore the N.Africa NO and rely on taking the Neutrals and maintaining control of the Med.  Effectively is the same thing, but limits US fleet movements towards the Med and funnels them North towards Canada and where your strength is as the Axis (Blockers, Air Force, Subs).

    In effect, it allows Italy to take Egypt and allows Germany to not focus on Moscow but take Leningrad and Stalingrad for a VC win without ever stepping foot into Moscow.



  • @Spendo02:

    Factor in some blocking and you can delay the arrival of US units by at least a turn, possibly 2 giving German Controlled London time to mass up some Inf.

    This is why Italy needs to ignore N.Africa.  Once you allow the US to get an IC anywhere in Europe, the tides change for the Axis.

    I don’t quite see the connection here, Spendo.
    Considering the Brits are out of the picture, why not take the North African territories?  It’s not terribly difficult.
    If you’re thinking that US could take Morocco and then place a naval base there, that’s a solid point.  It leaves their land forces vulnerable, but it’s a good point.

    And Rocmonster-
    How can you compensate for the loss of 150 IPCs in Russia?  I don’t doubt for a second you could take all of Africa given enough time, but frankly I don’t see how you could make up for that quickly enough.



  • I am not saying do this early on. This move of taking africa can’t be done till at least T9-10. 150 is a lot of money to take away from Russia, but what you have to realize is Russia can’t really go many spaces past moscow with their massive infantry arty stack because then Germany can then just do a blitz with all their 2 move units and take moscow behind the massive infantry stacks back. With Italy building all infantry Germany can build 100% for Russia for at least 10 turns. Making 600 IPC’s worth of ground units roughly going toward russia on the buys alone, plus the units germany starts with.



  • I’m saying its more valuable to take the European Neutrals (Yugo, Greece, Bulgaria) in the first two turns for Italy because you don’t expose your Trn to the UK navy.  Especially if I2 you are placing an AC in SZ97 and landing 2 Ftrs on it.

    I3 is kind of a slack turn for Italy as you are buying Trn to move the remaining units from the Neutral crush into Egypt.

    You may be facing a situation where you have no units in N.Africa at that point due to no reinforcements and the UK playing aggressively there.  If you engaged in a staring contest, all the better.  You can still take take Tunisia if you want, Algeria at most.  I wouldn’t suggest Morocco because you would have to divert too many units to defending it from a US landing and potential US Naval Base.

    Basically you aren’t even considering N.Africa until at the earliest I5/I6 because Egypt is your goal and not the NO for controlling N.Africa.  You’ll get a NO by taking Egypt anyways (due to S.France and Greece under Axis Control).  Really, you  just waste resources and fall into a trap if you try to take N.Africa as it spreads you too thin because you can’t advance and defend your flank without giving up control of Yugo and Greece.

    Let the UK take your sole territory worth any IPC in Libya.  You’re more than making up for it with other territories that are harder for the UK to reclaim.  You get the added bonus of not having to take and defend Morocco if you decide to disable the Naval Base in Gibraltar which will be Public Enemy #1 for the US if you disabled Gibraltar.

    In a nutshell, you don’t even worry about N.Africa because once Egypt falls, you have Iraq to take which is a NO for the Axis, and you have the remainder of Africa to race across with IPC producing territories that are much easier to defend and take than wasting the resources taking and holding until much later in the game.  Besides, with Egypt in Italy’s hands, you enable Germany to ignore Moscow’s 10 billion infantry chipped up and just push right after Leningrad and Stalingrad for the VC win before the US really threatens much more than London.



  • The UK startup units in the Med and Africa are formidable even if London falls, I agree that the Italians should still proceed with caution after sealion.



  • @theROCmonster:

    With Italy building all infantry Germany can build 100% for Russia for at least 10 turns.

    I’d disagree with this.  A concentrated Allied force will neutralize Italy, forcing it to turtle in Northern/Southern Italy, and reducing its income to nothing beyond inland territories.  It won’t be able to lend much of a hand to Germany for as long as 10 turns, I’d say, especially if Germany isn’t helping to slow down the Western Allies with any sort of Atlantic investments.


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 15
  • 51
  • 6
  • 6
  • 7
  • 2
  • 3
  • 7
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

54
Online

13.7k
Users

34.0k
Topics

1.3m
Posts