Problems with the Axis

@_Flin_:

Everyone in our group wants to play Germany, and everyone is keen on trying their own special tech, no matter how loud I cringe :-)

Germany is not imho free to choose its stance in the game. To the contrary, it is obliged to adapt to the Allies stance towards Japan.
If the Allies put too much pressure on Japan, Germany has to go all out against Russia, bying at least 5 armor per round, fortifying Ukraine and having its eye fixed on WR-Caucasus.
If the Allies totally ignore Japan, Germany has to brace itself for an all-out defence, buying at least 10 inf per round, safeguarding its luftwaffe, trying to hold on to Africa for as long as possible and hoping that the Japanese airforce won t be landing too late in Europe… 
If the German player ignores the Allied initiatives and simply goes on with whatever “sceme” he has, things will probably go bad for the Axis.

@_Flin_:

@MrMalachiCrunch:

I think we just need to play against some new blood so we can be schooled, embarrassed, curse the dice then finally accept we were missing something.

Read the article on Fortress Europe, review what few play by forum games remain, its a pity old legacy games and posts have been removed but there remains a few.

Yes, I noticed the part about 1942 games, few there, too bad.

I read the fortress Europe article and got quite inspired by it, reading up on it on this board in seperate threads. I used the superior placing of the Luftwaffe in France (british fleet sunk in the process due to my opponent somehow not noticing that I have 2 subs as cannon fodder). Played defensively and most was well (except for a stupid mistake as response to an R2 sub buy in the Black Sea). Too bad Japan self-destroyed on 4th/5th turn. I look forward to play more matches as Germany. I am not the only one, though. Everyone in our group wants to play Germany, and everyone is keen on trying their own special tech, no matter how loud I cringe :-)

Maybe try a 1 vs 1 game where you can be both Japan and Germany? Sounds like every Axis loss could be attributed to your friends wrecking your plans  :-(

@El:

Everyone in our group wants to play Germany, and everyone is keen on trying their own special tech, no matter how loud I cringe :-)

Let them try. :)

I play hundreds of games online using TripleA but when I play face to face with my friends I just shrug my shoulders everytime one of my team partners decides to do something crazy, like not buying anything that round, so that on the next round he’ll have a ton of money to try to surprise our opponent. To me it’s a crazy move that never solves anything but I stopped trying to lecture them and just have fun. It’s hard for me not to give opinions on what they should buy or attack but unless it is something very critical I nowadays make an effort to shut up unless they ask my opinion. People learn more when they are allowed to make their own mistakes.

Hey Hobbes, out of curiosity, do you play the allies or axis more?  Do you win more often with one side versus the other?

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Hey Hobbes, out of curiosity, do you play the allies or axis more?  Do you win more often with one side versus the other?

I play both equally, i usually just let my opponent choose sides. Regarding winning more with one side or another, I say that it seems balanced but this view is certainly biased since it is not usual for me to lose a game playing 1v1.

There are a few quirks though regarding each side that have an impact on the balance between sides, besides the higher production level of the Allies or the initial unit placement for the Axis. The Allies cooperate themselves more naturally than the Axis. Allied collaboration is usually more ‘tactical’ (regarding occupying/reinforcing territories/areas) but Axis collaboration is more ‘strategic’, like Japan moving fast to take Novo/Kazakh to force Russia to split its forces and spend units instead of using all to position itself to prepare for Germany’s round.

Axis have a steeper learning curve, I’d say, to use their advantages and negate the Allies’ ones. And if you are playing Axis with teammates there’s a tendency for G/J players to think more of their own backyards than the whole situation.

Germany is the best example. If the Allies go KGF and it can’t defend itself as Japan is taking Russia then the Axis lose. If the Allies go KJF and it doesn’t take Russia, the Axis lose again. If the Allies go both… then it has to make the right choices. Meanwhile, the Allies can and should sacrifice Russia if that’s the price to pay to take Germany. That option is not available to the Axis.

IMO in a game between experienced players, Axis has a small advantage.  But that edge can easily be upended by first round dice.  Axis can fall behind dramatically on G1 if any of SZ2, SZ13, SZ15, or Egypt fail.

The reason novices commonly think Allies have the advantage is that Axis has to be played well in the first few rounds in order to capitalize on their opportunities.  If Axis doesn’t come forward where it’s supposed to then the Allied economic advantage will quickly assert itself.

I think if you presented this game to 2 players who are already experts in Classic or Revised then Axis would win the majority of games, and it would take them a while to develop suitable Allied strategies.

I think novice players tend to be a bit more conservative.  Being conservative hurts the axis more than the allies being conservative I think.  With the axis having a better opening setup than the allies, they really need to maximize that before the allies can maximize their initial economic advantage.

A good way to learn is to play a game against yourself, but beyond the first few rounds it tends to lose its potential as a learning tool I would think.  It lets you script out the first few rounds of a strategy and counters but sooner or later the next step of learning is how to take advantage of good dice and how to do damage control with bad dice, basically how to take advantage of opportunities.

@MrMalachiCrunch:

I think novice players tend to be a bit more conservative.  Being conservative hurts the axis more than the allies being conservative I think.  With the axis having a better opening setup than the allies, they really need to maximize that before the allies can maximize their initial economic advantage.

A good way to learn is to play a game against yourself, but beyond the first few rounds it tends to lose its potential as a learning tool I would think.   It lets you script out the first few rounds of a strategy and counters but sooner or later the next step of learning is how to take advantage of good dice and how to do damage control with bad dice, basically how to take advantage of opportunities.

I completely agree, and playing against myself is exactly how I learned the most, followed by playing 1-on-1 against really good players online.