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Sealion alpha 2+



  • I have done some newbie mistakes on first two games. both games brits has destroyed my navy in 112, making sealion a waste.
    😛
    just curious.

    What do you think is the best purchase in G1 G2 (g3) to do a successfully Grab of London?



  • I think the standard G1 build is a CV, SS and TT from what I have read here.  I think a CV and a CR would be cool to get that extra shore bombardment.  I think I like a CV, SS and DD best though.  I like the more hits and I think both will be very useful after.

    Just curious, what did you buy and what did the Brits use to kill off your fleet?



  • bought 3 tt, 1 dd first, then 7 tt and some arts and inf etc, little combat boats



  • I always build 6 transports. Since I always clear sz 110, 111, 112 the brits lack the capacity to overcome my BB, Cruzer, and 3 fights. This allows maximum striking capacity, as attacking the USSR and the Brits are both legitimate options, It forces the Russians to pull back and the british to build 9 inf or forfeit London.



  • @ThomasJefferson:

    I always build 6 transports. Since I always clear sz 110, 111, 112 the brits lack the capacity to overcome my BB, Cruzer, and 3 fights. This allows maximum striking capacity, as attacking the USSR and the Brits are both legitimate options, It forces the Russians to pull back and the british to build 9 inf or forfeit London.

    If I saw you do this i would probably use the idea from the other thread and buy 3 tac bombers as UK.  It would be a close fight, but you have a good chance of losing everything if UK has 3 FIGs and 3 (maybe 4 with one from africa) Tac.  What about 4 transports and a CR?

    Also, I am very curious, what happens when UK scrambles on SZ110?  As Germany I guess I sort of want them to lose their fighters but they may pull it off.  Do I need to commit extra air as Germany to SZ109 and 110?



  • How about this build:

    G1 Build:  3 Transports
    Bank 9 IPC

    G2 Build:  6 Transports, 1 Airbase (Normandy), 1 Bomber

    G3 Sealion Attack:  10 Infantry, 8 Tanks, 2 Artillery, 4 Fighters, 4 Tactical Bombers, 2 Strategic Bombers
    Run 1 Fighter and 1 Tactical Bomber with Battleship and Cruiser

    Up against what?  22 Infantry and 5 Fighters?  84% win for Germany.  If UK scrambles you got a 81% chance to win, and you have a 98% chance to win London afterwords.



  • yes i also thought about buying an airbase on G2. it is nice to have one when the Americans comes.



  • @Dark_Destroyer:

    How about this build:

    G1 Build:  3 Transports
    Bank 9 IPC

    G2 Build:  6 Transports, 1 Airbase (Normandy), 1 Bomber

    G3 Sealion Attack:  10 Infantry, 8 Tanks, 2 Artillery, 4 Fighters, 4 Tactical Bombers, 2 Strategic Bombers
    Run 1 Fighter and 1 Tactical Bomber with Battleship and Cruiser

    Up against what?  22 Infantry and 5 Fighters?  84% win for Germany.  If UK scrambles you got a 81% chance to win, and you have a 98% chance to win London afterwords.

    Wouldn’t you be afraid of your navy getting attacked and losing all of your transports?



  • @Graunie:

    Wouldn’t you be afraid of your navy getting attacked and losing all of your transports?

    Afraid of what?  Russia?  I don’t think they’ll be spending IPC on navy.  USA?  50 IPC worth, not in position to attack UK yet.  You’ve built a Naval Base in Normandy, you can land 3 fighters to protect your fleet as well.  Germans know no fear.   8-)

    Edit:  This is assuming the UK dives it’s fleet to India because it’s pretty dumb to suicide on the Italians in Alpha+2 with 2 German planes on Southern Italy.



  • @Dark_Destroyer:

    @Graunie:

    Wouldn’t you be afraid of your navy getting attacked and losing all of your transports?

    Afraid of what?  Russia?  I don’t think they’ll be spending IPC on navy.  USA?  50 IPC worth, not in position to attack UK yet.  You’ve built a Naval Base in Normandy, you can land 3 fighters to protect your fleet as well.  Germans know no fear.   8-)

    Edit:  This is assuming the UK dives it’s fleet to India because it’s pretty dumb to suicide on the Italians in Alpha+2 with 2 German planes on Southern Italy.

    This is a serious question because I am inexperienced.

    What about the UK planes?  And the French plane if he feels like suiciding it to finish something off?  I guess I would do what I said above and buy more planes UK1 seeing that you didn’t buy any more navy.  So that would be something like 5-6 planes.  So a BB, CR and 3 scrambled fighters versus the royal air force and maybe a French plane on UK2 and F2 respectively.  I’m also assuming that the UK navy was wiped out G1.

    I have to say though, this really has me thinking.  Maybe something in the middle of a heavy G1 navy buy like a couple of DDs would be better?



  • I don’t think it’s realistic to assume that the UK player dives its Med fleet to India if Germany builds 3 transport G1. If I were UK I’d move the Med fleet to Gibraltar and up to SZ 110. Maybe build a few dd as fodder. You would then have a pretty big fleet waiting in SZ110 on G3 and a blocker dd in SZ111.



  • @Graunie:

    This is a serious question because I am inexperienced.

    What about the UK planes?  And the French plane if he feels like suiciding it to finish something off?  I guess I would do what I said above and buy more planes UK1 seeing that you didn’t buy any more navy.  So that would be something like 5-6 planes.  So a BB, CR and 3 scrambled fighters versus the royal air force and maybe a French plane on UK2 and F2 respectively.  I’m also assuming that the UK navy was wiped out G1.

    I have to say though, this really has me thinking.  Maybe something in the middle of a heavy G1 navy buy like a couple of DDs would be better?

    Just to hit 3 transports?  German 7 Transorts will be more than enough to finish off UK with no Fighters.  It’s a trap for the UK to actually think about hitting the transports with it’s airforce.  I would rather go through 3 transports to hit planes than 22 infantry hahaha  😛

    @Piet:

    I don’t think it’s realistic to assume that the UK player dives its Med fleet to India if Germany builds 3 transport G1. If I were UK I’d move the Med fleet to Gibraltar and up to SZ 110. Maybe build a few dd as fodder. You would then have a pretty big fleet waiting in SZ110 on G3 and a blocker dd in SZ111.

    Wouldn’t matter, 1 transport to seazone 104 G2 would stop a UK reinforcement.  G3 Build you can reinforce your Navy.



  • You can go all out though, and be really safe about it.  -Normal Way-

    G1 Build:  1 Destroyer, 1 Aircraft Carrier, 1 Transports, 1 Bomber  Bank 8

    G2 Build:  6 Transports, 2 Bombers, 1 Fighter

    You’re fleet is safe… but, looking at a 57% chance though.

    Scrap the AC and DD for 2 more transports turn 1, and you’re sitting at 91% chance victory.


  • '10

    @Dark_Destroyer:

    You can go all out though, and be really safe about it.  -Normal Way-

    G1 Build:  1 Destroyer, 1 Aircraft Carrier, 1 Transports, 1 Bomber  Bank 8

    Germany only starts with 30 ipcs in my version of the game.


  • TripleA

    carrier. maybe a dd. rest transports. g1. g2 ship some crap over to scotland, place transports safely out of reach of uk air but close enough to drop with naval base (3 space move up… he don’t got a bomber to reach).

    uk has no air. do an industrial bomb with tactical bombers and bombers and all your fighters (otherwise ship some figs over to italy side to help him out noncombat g1 do not scramble fighters if there is a chance you can lose them bring them back to setup for UK takedown on R3.).



  • Leaving German transports unprotected 3 zones away from the UK does not guarantee their safety.  As UK I took out seven unprotected transports in SZ113 on UK2 simply by building a carrier in SZ110, then launching 1 fighter from england (range 5) to hit the transports and then land on the newly built carrier.  49 German build points lost without a dice being thrown.  The carrier was later attacked and lost (though I did take out another 2 subs) as was the fighter but at 26 points total it was a good trade off and prevented sea-lion from occurring on G3.  Tough lesson learned by the German player.

    As the German player I never leave my transports unprotected, in fact I go to great lengths to look after them until their real job is done.  i.e. getting as much ground troops across the channel and into UK asap.  Sea Lion should always be the germans first priority and the G3 attack on UK should be co-ordinated with a japanese thrust towards the west coast of the US and towards the US fleet.  This should make the US build in the pacific rather than the Atlantic and give Germany time to consolidate in the UK and reduce the UK’s chance of liberation by the US until much later in the game.

    Once the UK is secure you can concentrate all of your resources against russia and you will eventually prevail.  Without London the UK is out of the war and cant replace its losses.  Africa also becomes a one sided affair since the allies cant replace lost units.  Thats the key to winning this game as the axis…taking out your enemies capacity to build units to replace losses.



  • Didn’t he scramble his fighters? Like the idea though



  • Can’t scramble the fighters if they already attacked that turn.

    The CV does sound like a good move.

    “Scrambled fighters and tactical bombers are defending, so refer to their defense values and abilities when resolving combat. They can’t participate in any other battles during that turn, including a battle on the island or territory from which they were scrambled.”



  • Apparently turns are different from rounds 🙂
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=22079.msg741512#msg741512

    So you can scramble
    Maybe his fgts were on a mission in Russia though



  • Well, I knew they were different, I just had them backwards. 😛  Thanks.

    As an aside, I think the rule now sucks, since it gives the fighters two extra movements during the round.  I would understand if it applied only to amphibious assaults, since they take place by the shore, but attacking in sea zones doesn’t make sense.  You may as well allow them to scramble to defend in adjacent land territories.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    If I plan for Sea Lion (and that is the topic of the thread, so let’s assume I do) I would go Aircraft Carrier, Destroyer, Submarine.

    Why?

    The Carrier and Destroyer along with scrambled fighters from Hamburg, Germany (W. Germany) should be more than enough to stop England from sinking your fleet.
    The Submarine is insurance against the England NO for no German submarines on the Atlantic board.  I have, on more than one occasion, lost every starting submarine I had without killing a single dang British ship outside of SZ 111 (because I overwhelm it with half a dozen planes and a pair of submarines, survival for England would require a reboot of the universe.)

    I also assume the following:

    • Bulgaria absorbed
    • Finland absorbed
    • Normandy/W. France taken
    • France Taken
    • Yugoslavia taken

    This should give Germany 70 IPC to spend on Round 2.

    Now, if your attacks went average or well, on Germany 2 you can put 10 transports in the water (11 total on the board.)  If England went into the Med to deny Italy the NO there, take Gibraltar with one transport and lock them in giving you two shore bombardments and annoying the British to no end.

    If not, or it is unfeasible to accomplish the attack on Gibraltar, just leave the transport with you and hope you have the firepower to kill the fleet in SZ 110 and enough airpower to take London.

    Remember, however, after England falls, the desperate need for your aircraft carrier drops significantly.  I would be inclined to take two hits on the carrier right off if England had a large enough force in SZ 110, thus giving myself that 1 extra hit on a unit with an attack value!

    You also have to worry about whether or not to take Scotland.  If the American/British navy gets into SZ 109 and you cannot clear it, you’ll lose 6 IPC from England and you might give America 2 IPC for liberating Scotland and lose 2 IPC for taking it back (to deny America position) in convoy damage there too!

    It is one of the reasons people are beginning to chatter about abandoning England and setting up for a counter attack later in the game.



  • @Cmdr:

    If I plan for Sea Lion (and that is the topic of the thread, so let’s assume I do) I would go Aircraft Carrier, Destroyer, Submarine.

    Now, if your attacks went average or well, on Germany 2 you can put 10 transports in the water (11 total on the board.)

    10 Transports on G2?  How do you accomplish this with only the Naval Bases on W. Germany and Normandy with no Naval Base build on G1?


  • TripleA

    I just buy a carrier rest trans for G1. Then G2 i drop in scotland. should have enough naval to defend it, if I dont oh well buy all trans. body slam r3 or or or or

    drop everything scotland r3. then r4 pick up / drop uk. done deal.



  • You don’t need a naval base to build a fleet, simply a factory.



  • @nimitz1:

    You don’t need a naval base to build a fleet, simply a factory.

    ….sigh.  Our group has been playing with the notion that airbases and naval bases produce up to 3 of that kind.  Good lord epic fail.  So only minors and majors can produce units?  :roll:


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